Hmmm..Prestone QS = OCW?

COBRyan said:
There are a couple PepBoys around where I live, so I will check all 3 when I go out this week. If I find more than a couple bottles, I will buy extras in case anyone wants to buy them from me (at the sale price + shipping).
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I've got dibs if you find extras :D
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I'm not arguing Scott, but isn't it also possible that Optimum relabled his product for Prestone? He would then be selling his patented product to them, and not sharing what his ingredients are with anyone.



Markthom stated there were more similarities than just the packaging, such as the scent, etc. I'm not saying he's right, and I'm agreeing that similar packaging is inconclusive (to the point of by itself being insignificant), I'm just saying that it's possible that Optimum made the stuff for Prestone, just as they may have made "SunX".



I wasted a bunch of time today trying to hunt some of this stuff down (prolly would have been cheaper to buy some OCW!), and since it seems to have been discontinued (can't find it on the Prestone website), I'm thinking the place to find it is a small auto parts store, since any of the chains would have cleared it out.
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Straight from David at Optimum:



The only similarity between OCW and this product is the bottle (the color of their product is more milky looking since I believe it is an straight emulsion). When I first started using this bottle, the manufacturer said that they made the mold for an automotive spray wax that is discontinued. I had no idea who the spray wax manufacturer was untill now. I would be very interested in buying one of the bottles or exchanging one with OCW. I think these were found somewhere in the PepBoys warehouse and that is why they are a clearance item. As for the performance of the product, I would say people probably get what they pay for.



We have never done any private labeling of any of our products. SunX is our trademark and we were at one point trying to switch from Optimum to SunX, however, once a label is created, it has a life of its own and it is up to the people to tell us to print it or not. As for Huey Chemical offering SunX, they are one of our distributors who also offer Optimum Polish and Optimum Compound. If anyone ever looks at their label, it would say "Distributed by Huey Chemical" and no where it says manufactured by them.
 
I guarantee you that this is not Optimum spray wax. Optimum does not private label.



OCW is an original formula and no other product can have wax plus UV absorbers as this woul dbe patent infringment.



Anthony
 
Anthony, does that mean that other products are making false claims? I'm pretty sure that I've read copy on at least a couple other products that make the claim of having both.
 
SpoiledMan said:
Anthony, does that mean that other products are making false claims? I'm pretty sure that I've read copy on at least a couple other products that make the claim of having both.
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Not in a spray wax form they can't, or shouldn't. I believe in a paste or creme wax they can.



Anthony
 
Let me try and clear up the SunX and Optimum name difference.



When OCW first came out it was, I believe called "SunX" and Huey Chemical company was a distributor. They sold to car washes and such and it was placed in the car wash vending machines.



They also advertised it in car washing magazines.



SunX was then re-labeled to be sold to the general public but for the pro's the name SunX was kept. So at first many people got the white gallon jugs labeled Optimum Spray Wax but after those jugs ran out the only gallon jugs now sent out are labeled SunX.



Same product, made by the same company, in fact a one man operation at the moment, and it is not private labeled.



I also hate to inform you guys who ran out and bought the Prestone item, you bought a quick detailer and not a true wax/polymer product. Not that there is anything wrong with that but it's not a wax but rather a wax based QD.



OCW can in fact be used on glass and it works great BUT do not use as much as you would on the paint, just a light mist on your towel is all you need.



Anthony
 
Here's the text of the patents...6,685,765 & 6,669,763 . Scott, I don't think David is too worried about anyone knowing what his ingredients are, they are all listed in the patents, at least for many variations of the patented product; I guess it's not really clear which of the many variants is actually the one that is sold. That's the normal approach when you try to patent something, try to claim as many variants/extensions of your idea as you can, to get the most protection from someone trying to piggyback on your idea. Looks like he was successful in getting many claims. I'm guessing that the SunX name was to try to capitalize on the UV protection.
 
The Big O is back in town and from what I hear not having to run his PC off a Generator. :)



Thanks for explaining the Sunx thing, I emailed Dave to ask him however your response is alot quicker and I'm willing to bet just as accurate. So Dave started with making a Wax and then jumped to polishes?
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Here's the text of the patents...6,685,765 & 6,669,763 . Scott, I don't think David is too worried about anyone knowing what his ingredients are, they are all listed in the patents, at least for many variations of the patented product; I guess it's not really clear which of the many variants is actually the one that is sold. That's the normal approach when you try to patent something, try to claim as many variants/extensions of your idea as you can, to get the most protection from someone trying to piggyback on your idea. Looks like he was successful in getting many claims. I'm guessing that the SunX name was to try to capitalize on the UV protection.
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He is not necessarily worried but protective, hence the patents.
 
Lets face it, we'll never know whether Prestone QS=OCW. But I do know the following:



1. It's not in the OCW developer's best interest to admit having licensed the product to Prestone. Such licensing would incorporate a non-disclosure agreement to protect, among other things, the developer's marketing niche.



2. The similarities mentioned in the original post are to too numerous to be coincidental, at least to me.



3. Here in Autopia, OCW has often been compared to a detail spray in terms of application. So it's very conceivable to market the product as a long lasting detail spray, which is exactly Prestone's approach on their Quick Spray.



Lastly, *if* QS=OCW, because of who patented what, I believe that OCW would've been licensed to Prestone, and not the other way around.



I'm off to enjoy my lifetime supply of "long lasting detail spray". The stuff is incredibly slick. JB
 
I tried another Pep Boys today and no luck. It must be a regional thing. The "only" Prestone product they had was the Brake Repellent.
 
JellyBean said:
Lets face it, we'll never know whether Prestone QS=OCW.
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So basically, you are calling David of Optimum a liar then. He says he does not private label, period and the Prestone product is not his. As far as I am concerned, especially after meeting him personally, the matter is closed.
 
JellyBean said:
Lets face it, we'll never know whether Prestone QS=OCW. But I do know the following:



1. It's not in the OCW developer's best interest to admit having licensed the product to Prestone. Such licensing would incorporate a non-disclosure agreement to protect, among other things, the developer's marketing niche.
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That is a tough one. I agree, there would like be an NDA, but in his email, Mr. Optimum said "We have never done any private labeling of any of our products", as opposed to "I can't discuss that". I would agree with you that it's most likely he would deny it, to protect his customer, but here we go again, suggesting we are not getting the straight skinny from a mfr./supplier, despite his assertions.



Another possible scenario, is that the Optimum statement is technically true, but that some similar product was provided to Prestone. The OCW patents allow for a broad range of mixtures/formulas. It may be that the QS is a "watered down" version of OCW, missing some "key" ingredient(s).



Since we are treading on some pretty thin ice here, and risking this thread turning into a flame war, etc., and especially since the Prestone product is not available any longer (except as a clearance item), making it largely a moot point, I intend to back off from this now. I have in no way intended to suggest that Optimum has been misleading, only to suggest a possible scenario that fits the pieces. I'm going to take David from Optimum at his word.



EDIT: Anthony O. and Scottwax posted while I was writing this...I am NOT trying to inflame this any more...I also consider the matter closed. <zipping lips>
 
IMO if a manufacturer has taken the time to create a product worthy of filing patents for and is willing to make those patent numbers public I don't think he's out to hide anything from current/potential customers. I'd say case closed. If only all "manufacturers" were so open.
 
Scottwax said:
So basically, you are calling David of Optimum a liar then. He says he does not private label, period and the Prestone product is not his. As far as I am concerned, especially after meeting him personally, the matter is closed.
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Like someone else already said, it would not be in his best interest to tell the truth on this matter. Businessmen will always be just that, businessmen. If it 'was' true and he admitted it, I think everyone would be running to Pepboys to get their OCW at an incredible price.



With that said, I have no idea if it is the same product or not.
 
COBRyan said:
If it 'was' true and he admitted it, I think everyone would be running to Pepboys to get their OCW at an incredible price.
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Except we wouldn't, because it's been discontinued, and there just seems to be a few bottles floating around.
 
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