Hi! New Guy here with lots of ????s

K

Kirath

New member
Hey all, I was referred here because of my craziness for detailing and cleaning my car. Unfortunately, my current living situation does not entitle me to a garage, but luckily I do have access to a couple different ones. At any rate, I've been reading up as much as I can on here and I would like to run by my new proposed method.



----------------------------------------------------------------



I just picked up a Porter Cable 7424 (think that's the number)

- Very excited, never used one before, should be fun.



My paint is in some serious need of love. New England winter is killer on Automobiles.



I've decided to do a compounding process, followed by a deep polish, then wax.



Here is what I am thinking.



Step 1 - Complete wash (dawn soap)

Step 2 - Clay Bar (BLACKFIRE PolyClay II Kit)

Step 3 - Menzerna Intensive Polish

Step 4 - Menzerna Final Polish

Step 5 - Klasse All-in-one Wax (let cure 24 hours)

Step 6 - P21S Paste Car Wax



I plan on taking my time during this whole process and working the entire car. I've never used a porter before but I am pretty good at these things. Let me know what the general opinion is on these products. I am going to continue to search through your archives and see what I can come up with.



---------------------------------

A little background info on me.



I help run a car enthusiast site in the Boston are called www.Bostonaudi.org

I also do quite a bit in the car community - www.audizine.com

I run my own enthusiast site -www.doodmonkeyradio.com/audiweb

So I am pretty good when it comes to Audis and cars in general. Just started going nuts with the whole detailing thing when I got my Audi. I only wanted the best treatment for my car. And the best comes from doing it yourself I believe. Thanks all, talk to you soon.
 
Welcome to Autopia!



Step 5 is a little off. AIO is not the product that needs to cure for 24 hours. Its the Sealant Glaze that needs that. AIO is a apply and go kind of product. No curing is neccessary. Its not a wax either. No wax in it at all in fact. Its just a cleaning product that provides a good base for other polymer sealants (specificly SG) to bond to. After the polishing that you will be doing to your car before Step 5, I don't feel that AIO is neccessary since you aren't topping it with a sealant. P21S doesn't require an AIO base and I doubt that it will really clean the paint any better than its already cleaned.



Good luck in your search! I'm sure you'll find a ton of good info. :wavey
 
You will need pads and a backing plate for your PC. When polishing there is a relationship between polishes and pads. Just as you can get stronger polishes you can get pads that cut more. Matching the pad and polish to get the results you are after takes a little thought. Geekysteve had a good article on this. Perhaps someone can helps us out and post the link.



good luck
 
Well that step was mentioned to me as a trick of the trade so to say to get a really good shine out of your car. Then seal it using an pure Carnarba wax. I was going to use Soverign I think, but its a bit exspensive and I did'nt want to buy 8oz of wax for $60 without knowing a bit more about it first.



EDIT: Rightlane

Yes, I am well aware about different pads. I did get some decent pads for my PC. Yellow, white, and Gray - for each different process. I did do quite a bit of research before I ordered it all.



Thanks! if there is more info though, I would love to read it.
 
Using a carnauba to seal AIO? That's an interesting piece of advice. lol Who told you that? :lol Carnauba doesn't seal anything. AIO doesn't do much for shine either. The shine is in the SG. If you really want to protect your car then you'll use AIO and SG and then top it with carnauba. Either way, AIO does not benefit from a 24 hour cure time. I think I can speak from experience on that point.



P.S. check your PMs :xyxthumbs
 
Okay this is the exerpt I found

Show-Car Trick



Detailers that prepare show cars will often layer a carnauba wax on top of a synthetic wax. The synthetic wax acts as a gloss layer while the carnauba wax adds depth and liquidity. One combination that works very well is an initial coating of Klasse All-In-One followed by one or more coats of Pinnacle Paste Glaz or Souveran wax. The Pinnacle waxes are super-pure carnauba waxes that can be layered without any yellowing effects.
Click to expand...
 
Hey! Another Bostonian! Welcome...lots of great ideas here.I thinkyou'realmost on the right track.AIO is an amazing product...clean the surface well,clay, then polish surface...then AIO....then,I would recommend 2 coats of PlatinumUPP...it's an acrylic sealant..then use S100 or Pinnacle Souveran wax. This is pretty close to what I have done on my black Benz, except I used Collinite hard wax as the topper. I've been very happy with it all, but I've been searching for some Liquid Souveran to try.
 
The problem there is that AIO is not a synthetic wax. There is no wax in it at all. It is a cleaner product. It will clean off the oxidation and general crud that washing doesn't get rid of. Its not meant to shine or protect much. Its just a cleaning product. It does have some minor protection qualities in it, but that is not the purpose of using it. If you want your car to shine with a synthetic then you should use one that is meant to shine. SG or Platinum or Zaino or a number of other products topped with a good carnauba will shine and look way better than just AIO.



I am preparing my car for a show next month right now. it is in the prep stages as far as polishing goes. Right now most of the car just has AIO on it. I still have some work on the roof to do and then its ready. There isn't a difference in shine between the areas with AIO on them and the areas without it. The shine comes from the sealant. AIO does darken the paint just a little and that may account for some slightly deeper reflections, but you'd really have to see it side by side with a bare surface to notice that. Trust me. AIO is not the creme de la creme of the shine products. It gets much better than that. If you top AIO with a carnauba then you can't layer any more sealants on (sealants won't bond to carnauba). Get 3 or 4 layers of SG on there first and you'll see a world of difference.
 
Kirath - Welcome to Autopia. Nice to see another Audi fan here. What color is the car in question? Different products look VERY different on certain Audi paints. The degree of difference can be amazing.



And yes, there are better-but-similar methods to use instead of AIO/wax topper.



I'd REALLY suggest you use a sealant on an Audi. Especially if yours has the black lower trim and grillwork, etc. (I use sealants on these areas instead of ERV dressings, works GREAT). PLUS it pays to REALLY protect the fragile-finish "B" pillars with something better than just wax.
 
Accumulator - thanks! Hope there is a few of us Audi guys around.



I have a 2000 A4 2.8 - Santorin. My lowers were painted some time ago and I've had the back end repainted due to an accident. My car doesn’t look the same, but it’s done well enough that I will live.



The Santorin paint has a very very deep look to it. Due to the fact that it has the Peal affect Audi/VW uses. Though, I haven’t really seen any VWs with pearl.



I've noticed as well that the B pillars paint is quite soft, or easily chipped. I have a couple chips here and there that I've been meaning to patch up.



Now I am still confused on what I am going to do. Plus a lot of the time I have no idea what you guys are talking about when you abbreviate everything. Sorry, but I am still a neophyte on what’s really out there for detailing. I consider myself just past the school on 3M Imperial glaze and just getting into some more serious / a lot better products. I just ordered my porter last week. So bear with me and explain what it is in hell you're abbreviating. Like I am not entirely sure what ERV is...?



At any rate, I've looking into more of my original thought. Does AIO contain wax? Is it a sealer? Because, I've checked my original source and read it again. Not only that, but on the main page to this site I found this excerpt. Pretty much exactly what I came to on my own.



SHOW CAR TRICKS

Detailers that prepare show cars will often layer a Carnauba wax on top of a synthetic wax. The synthetic wax acts as a gloss layer while the Carnauba wax adds depth and a wet-looking appearance. An enthusiast combination used by many Autopia members is a coat of Klasse All-In-One followed by one or more coats of P21S Concours Wax. It is necessary to allow 24 hours of cure time between wax coats. If the wax does not cure (harden), the second coat will not improve your car’s appearance or protection.



Properly applied, you will see a noticeable improvement in depth, richness of color, and gloss with multiple coats of a good show car wax. Concours winners will all tell you they use many layers to produce the desired paint gloss and depth.
Click to expand...



Back to my original idea of applying AIO, waiting 24 hours, and covering it with P21s. Of course most of these products I've just read about and was recommended. But I have purchased the products and I am eager to try. But of course I was lucky enough to come here, which so far has been a rewarding and educational experience.
 
I'm not big on AIO, but a bit of advise on the chipping.



Once you get the finish perfect, do what I did.. Get a paint protection film AKA: Armorglove, Xpel, Stoneguard etc.



My new '03 Lexus SC430 chipped in 15 days!!! Best investment I made.



As for your AIO question, the guys can answer that as there are many who use it.



I'm a DACP, Zaino, Souveran person myself, but use other product depending on the condition and results/time I have. I'm trying Menzerna or as I can say, Glue-Zerna. A PITA to remove. DACP does just as good without using two products to obtain results. Zaino is a very good sealant/polish and produces a wet-look shine for a long time. Same can be said for AIO. It's a matter of trying a product, and if it works, great then on to another product to see if you can improve what you just did etc etc.. Welcome to our nightmare..You get hooked quickly!



Be prepaired to part with large sums of money for more and more stuff. Towels, drying tools, polishing tools, products, no time for your wife you get the picture! Order some MF towels from PakShak, get a few Autopia CBT towels, look at Costal Tool for prices on polishers. Some of use use CMA, and other sites to order products. You'll get to know your UPS driver very well soon!



Alright, which one of you guys is the AIO king and can answer the AIO question?



Regards,

Deanski
 
Well I'm not the AIO King (whatever that title means :p) but here's my take on it: It does not contain "wax" like the regular, normal waxes such as carnauba that you find in most waxes. It contains an acrylic polymer sealant. If you really want to be lazy and imprecise you could call Klasse "wax" because it's functionally the same. It protects the paint from the elements and it keeps it looking good - just like a traditional wax, and like how apples and oranges are both fruits. Most "waxes" tend to be grouped into two camps: Carnauba waxes and synthetic polymer sealants. This isn't always simple or accurate, but this is the rough dividing line between most products you'll see mentioned at Autopia.
 
Kirath said:
Accumulator - thanks! Hope there is a few of us Audi guys around.



I have a 2000 A4 2.8 - Santorin.

The Santorin paint has a very very deep look to it. Due to the fact that it has the Peal affect Audi/VW uses.



Now I am still confused on what I am going to do. Plus a lot of the time I have no idea what you guys are talking about when you abbreviate everything. Sorry, but I am still a neophyte on what’s really out there for detailing. I consider myself just past the school on 3M Imperial glaze and just getting into some more serious / a lot better products. I just ordered my porter last week. So bear with me and explain what it is in hell you're abbreviating. Like I am not entirely sure what ERV is...?



At any rate, I've looking into more of my original thought. Does AIO contain wax? Is it a sealer? Because, I've checked my original source and read it again. Not only that, but on the main page to this site I found this excerpt. Pretty much exactly what I came to on my own.
Click to expand...



4DSC's advice is good.



OK, let's see if I too can give a fellow Audi nut some USABLE advice compared to what I said last time.



The ERV= external Rubber Vinyl dressing (like Armor All).



AIO does NOT contain carnuaba or other natural waxes. It has VERY little sealant in it, mostly just a cleaner. The natural wax on top of a sealant will look GREAT on your paint, but opinions vary about how great the AIO is for this application. Since you already have it, I'd give it a shot. UNLESS you want to buy some other product before doing it. I'd try what you have, myself.



Keep the questions coming so we can fine-tune this.
 
Well I am going to go with the process I have now. All my supplies are here or on their way. I got the PC, pads, cleaning supplies, methods, etc all worked out.



I plan on documenting the entire process for the folks on my Audi message board. So I'll let you all take a look.



This is just the first step for me in becomming a more well rounded detail buff. Trial and error works best I think. Plus with some more practice/education I will be able to fine tune my methods. Thanks again everyone for all your help so far.
 
Well, if you want to wait 24 hours after AIO then that is fine. Its a wasted 24 hours though. Its not going to do anything durring that 24 hours that it didn't do in the first 24 seconds on the car. It does not cure so waiting a whole day is wasting a whole day. Whoever told you to let AIO cure for 24 hours didn't know what they were talking about. SG is the part that needs to cure. AIO is just a cleaner. I would suggest you follow the advice of people who have used that product. Topping AIO with carnauba is fine, but if you call AIO a wax then you are wrong. Zero wax in AIO. It doesn't need to cure and it doesn't do much for shine. You are missing the best part of the Klasse system. I've been using Klasse for a couple years now and if there is a Klasse King then I may be in the running. There are a couple of us here that could qualify for that position I think.
 
Okay, I did have a misunderstanding about Klasse before. But what I meant by my last comment was a I have a method. It has changed since I've started my discussion here, so don't take it the wrong way. I do understand what the Klasse product is.



Its 24hours between waxes which I've read on THIS site...

Here is the article explaining exactly what I am talking about/.

http://www.autopia.ws/articles.php?articleId=29



Its funny too, because I came to this tip/trick on my own. Just asked here for some clearification.



But the linked article does call Klasse a Synthetic wax, thats where most of my confusion is comming from..... Maybe I should just ignore everything else on the site and just go by the word of mouth in the forums. (personal experiences are usually better anyways)
 
Kirath- It's not you ;), the information floating around out there (and even HERE) is, uhm, imperfect at best. As with most things, you'll find contradictory opinions everywhere you look. IMO, the very best way to find something out is YOUR OWN first-hand experience. That said, Autopia really is a goldmine of detailing information.



It's sorta splitting hairs, but "synthetic wax" is actually a misnomer, like saying "artificial wood". I myself keep the two types of product separate- sealants (or "synthetics") and waxes.



The stuff about waiting for AIO to cure before applying the (real/natural) wax is a generalized extrapolation from a valid concept. When topping a synthetic sealant (whether adding another layer or applying a "wax topper") you SHOULD let the synthetic fully cure, usually for a day or so. The point of contention is HOW to classify AIO, is it REALLY a sealant or is it just a cleaner? Jngrbrdman has a LOT of experience with the product (I myself have ALWAYS topped it, without waiting, with SOME synthetic, so I can't say I know much about its "stand-alone sealant" qualities). IF Jngrbrdman is correct, then you can top AIO the second you wipe it off. IF Jngrbrdman is INcorrect (and I for one am NOT about to say that), then you oughta wait the 24 hours.



Semi-serious/semi-facetious comment: next time buy Autoglym's Super Resin Polish instead of AIO. It's an all-in-one product that definitely DOES work like a sealant. Protects pretty long all by itself and works great with a topper. And it usually looks VERY nice on Audis.
 
Cool guys! Thanks again for all the info and clarifications. I'll trust Jngrbrdmanm, he seems to know what he is talking about. It was mostly my misunderstanding about Klasse which had me all confused.



Thanks again...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top