Help with 2002 Toyota RAV4

i personally think manuals are overrated. especially if you live in the city or an area with lots of lights. Its a pain in the butt to shift up and down, up and down. The only real advantage of a manual to me is if you are racing and even then you can buy parts for your auto to make it shift more like a manual. the engine to me is what matters not the transmission.
 
I for one hope the clutch pedal does not go extinct here in the US.

I prefer fully manual trasmission even though it is now archaic,

slower-shifting, and no more economical now than a good manumatic.

I have one of those too in the wife's car; she's had five knee surgeries.



An analogy for us older folks...in the mid 1980s car starting coming with

digital dashes. People argued look at fighter jets, look at CART/F1, blah blah blah,

they all have digital. Well, the traditional round dial instruments

won out in popular opinion and automakers kept them or went back to them.

I'm afraid that the clutch pedal does not have the support that dopey old analog round guages did though. Bummer.

Jon
 
Jon, you're really showing your age.;)



Those first generation digital gauges were terrible and even worst unreliable (84-85 vettes). This was about the same time as video games were becoming popular ( remember "Space Invades"? PacMan?). If allowed to evolve in a similiar manner as the videos games have done over the last 20 years, digital read out might have become more in vogue. :nixweiss



I really doubt the manuals will completely disappear but may become a rare or special order item like convertibles, which themselves became extinct in the late 70's and 80's. :wavey
 
russellp23 said:
It "torques" me to no end to see a beautiful "sports car", only to look inside and see an automatic tranny. I think it's a waste of the intended use of the car.
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Being that im young im going to have to voice my opinion on this (al you older guys forgive me) What "torques" me is seeing grandpa driving around in a Z06......when the fastest he will go is 30 MPH....i really think there should be an age cut off on buying "nice" cars...... i also get "torqued" when i see chicks driving mens cars.....:angry .......ok i feel better now
 
Murph,

I most admit that even my wife states I drive like an old man now most of the time (98%), but when my old auto-cross genes kick in.........Watch out. ;) I pick and choose my battles and only bother with equals. Youngsters not only do not, in most cases, possess the goods but worst of all they over-estimate their ability.

I am not going to even touch your statement about woman except to say that man do not have a gene that makes them better drivers or decision makers about what car to buy.

Also wake-up and smell the roses. Most car makers "gear" their advertizing dollars towards woman.
 
blkZ28Conv said:
It reminds me of the old days when I had no choice but to go manual in order to squeeze out every little bit of power my sports cars had ( VW, TR-6, Rx7, 320i, 914-4).
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Nice reply :up :D



Just to bring you up to date. Nowadays you can suffer NO loss in HP drivetrain with a properly setup matched auto transmission. Matched stall convertor, rollerized gears, etc. etc.



Erik
 
I haven't owned an automatic since my first car and driving the standard has become second nature I don't even think about it half the time now. It is a royal pain in heavy stop and go trafic when your trying to chill out after a crappy day at work.



I'm currently looking at a new car and I thought I'd want an automatic so I drove a couple (the Acura TL is one) and while fun and powerfull (and I'd be able to drink my coffee more leisurely on the way to work), it seemed that I was always on the brakes. I realized that this is one differnce in driving style in that I have become so accustomed to engine braking in the standard.



I have since then taken the standard version of the Acrua TL on a drive and man oh man that is sooo much more fun.



Now the question is what's more important having fun some of the time or being able to chill out most of the time (commuting is the majority of my driving).
 
Maybe a shiftable automatic? But, that's like when a football coach says he has two quarterbacks. Really means he doesn't have any.
 
I think the steptronic is a good compromise to the manual or automatic issue. I'm sure steptronic is not nearly not as fun as stick, it still gives drivers something to play around with which isn't always desired(traffic). My friend takes his bro's 02 bmw 330ci and even though its auto the steptronic is still cool and has no problem whipping that car around. *I* think another reason why people rather have the automatic then the stick is because a lot of people who are purchasing a new car, rather be driving it and showing it off that night, then learning how to drive it.
 
blkZ28Conv said:
Just for arguement. The fastest cars today around any road course or drag strip are clutchless.

F1

Top Fuel

Pro Sport

Funny Cars

Mercedes McLaren SLR

etc

etc
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With the excpetion of SLR, they all have clutches (or clutch packs, in the case of the drag cars), I believe. They may be "automatics" to some extent, but all of them lack a torque converter (again, except the SLR). To call them "clutchless" would be a misnomer. If you mean they lack a clutch pedal, you'd be correct. To compare supercars and purpose built racers to road-going slushboxes is pretty much apples and oranges, though . . .



Give me a computer contolled clutch and paddle shifters, and I'm all for an "automatic". No torque converters in my vehicles, please, as I don't care for the disconnected feel when the converter isn't locked up. But, as others have pointed out, to each his own.



Tort
 
blkZ28Conv said:


Just for arguement. The fastest cars today around any road course or drag strip are clutchless.

F1
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Not this year. New regulation. No fully automatic gearboxes or launch control.





I am a manual guy. I love them because to me the process of shifting and selecting which is gear is part of the enjoyment I get out of driving. In town driving it is second nature (in fact when I go start the wifes cars most of the time my left foot goes for a clutch which isn't there) granted I don't have gridlock for hours on end to suffer through. However, I do understand the desire of many to drive automatics. They are improving all the time. It is unlikely the manual will go away. There still too many purist that enjoy selecting their own gears for just for the fun factor. That said, eventually transmissions like the BMW SMGII or the second generation Ferrari F1 with electronic controlled clutches will filter down in to other sports cars and/or sports sedans replacing the steptronic type torque converter manual/autos then is when you will really see a challenge to the popularity of manuals from the enthusiast. When this happens the a new era of auto/manual will be born.



The truth is that most automatics in the modern sports cars can shift more quickly and at better points in the power and torque curve than your average stick driver. I read a comparison test conducted by Hurley Haywood on two Porsche Twin Turbos (996’s). One with 6spd manual the other a the Porsche auto/manual (not a electronic controlled clutch btw :( ). He preferred the manual but indicated that the pure automatic was as quick and that in the hands of less experienced driver would probably be much quicker than the 6spd.
 
bet993 said:
Not this year. New regulation. No fully automatic gearboxes or launch control.
Click to expand...



True. This was done to bring driver skill back into the equation and possibly enhance competition. Not to enhance the speed or quickness of the vehicles.



Tort,

Try driving an ALL-engined 300+ HP and TQ minimun vehicle. I believe you will feel completely connected. There is a WOW (some call it fear) factor that just can not be denied. Some vehicles just require you have both hands on the wheel. :xyxthumbs
 
So, overcome the shortcomings of the slushbox with monster HP and torque, eh? Thanks, I'll keep rowing the gears in my piddly li'l 4-banger. :D



Tort
 
blkZ28Conv said:
True. This was done to bring driver skill back into the equation and possibly enhance competition. Not to enhance the speed or quickness of the vehicles.
Click to expand...



I agree. Actually programed down shifts are still allowed but it requires driver input (such as pressing button and/or paddle).



Do you follow F1? If so what are guesses from preseason testing?
 
TortoiseAWD said:
So, overcome the shortcomings of the slushbox with monster HP and torque, eh? Thanks, I'll keep rowing the gears in my piddly li'l 4-banger. :D



Tort
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Tort, I understand your passion for shifting. I was a manual-only person for many years. Never owned an auto until I was almost 45 y.o. Then I realized the unnecessary nature of this activity for daily driving pleasure. Maybe the racer in me has died. Maybe the ability to perform juvenial acts on public roads has died. Maybe even my passion for driving has died........NOT



Probably because I have 3 manuals at my disposal that the novelity is no long there. :nixweiss



I can loose traction in 3 gears with my modified electronic controlled "slushbox". I guess there is not as much slush as one might think. :D



My daily driver is a piddly little 120hp 4 banger with auto. Why, because its not necessary to get to point A from point B shifting gears. I love that little car. Great on gas, comfortable to drive, great outward visiblity and very calming to drive. No wannabe- fast-cars bothering me.

It's nice to have great choices with todays technology on the full spectrum of transmissions available. and that is what the thread should be all about. IMO
 
bet993 said:
I agree. Actually programed down shifts are still allowed but it requires driver input (such as pressing button and/or paddle).



Do you follow F1? If so what are guesses from preseason testing?
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I love F1. Have not been following the off-season like I normally do though.

What's with the new nose of the McLaren?

I hope the tire equation has equalized so that we can see who are the best drivers and engineers.

Should be a great year with BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari and I think Toyota will move closer to the top step. I am a little disappointed with Honda, they should be right there but for some reason they have not conquered the V10 format. :nixweiss



Should be an exciting year. :bounce
 
I guess I'm a manual person. My mom has always chosen manuals when buying her autos, (cheaper at the time than autos) until this year, she "retired" and got a Jeep Liberty with auto. Since always having a manual and an auto (dad's choice) on hand I learned to drive both when I was a beginner and always pretty much drove the manuals. I think once you get used to driving a certain way it is difficult to give that up. I like being in control of how the car behaves, engine braking, downshifting when the occassion arises and such. I almost gave in to the Tiptronic when shopping for my Passat, but I'm so glad that I stuck with the 5 speed manual. I am fortunate enough to be able to be at home now and raise my daughter so being able to avoid rush hour makes owning the manual a lot easier.



I appreciate the luxury of an auto transmission but at the same time I just prefer the control of the manual. It isn't a performance aspect for me just a feeling. Kind of hard to describe but I hope you see the point. I'm sure that when I reach 50+ years old, I'll want LUXURY. Afterall we should treat our body and soul to comfort by then!
 
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