Help removing acid rain spots from new Infiniti G37x with Scratch Shield clear coat!

K

KWANG-SEOK

New member
I just took delivery of a 2011 Slate Blue Infiniti G37x sedan last weekend. After I got it into my garage (under fluorescent lights) I noticed acid rain spots all over the hood, roof, and trunk (all the horizontal surfaces). No problem, I thought, I've dealt with this before, so I got out my PC, 3M 39009 Swirl Mark Remover, a white polishing pad, and went to work. After a few passes there was no improvement. Hmmm. So I moved on to an orange pad and 3M Machine Polish and went at it. Still no improvement.



Since those were the most aggressive compounds I had, I asked the dealer to try to remove the spots. They also didn't have any luck but (fortunately for me) they only tried to fix the trunk. How did I know this? Because it was swirled to hell. I knew this was going to happen but I felt compelled to let them try.



Next, I ordered some Menzerna Power Gloss compound, Menzerna SIP, and some new yellow, orange, and white pads. Even the Power Gloss with the yellow pad was unable to make a dent in the acid rain spots (although it did haze the paint slightly which I was able to fix with the SIP/white pad). Also, the orange peel in the paint isn't any better, so I doubt I'm removing much, if any, clear despite all of this buffing/polishing.



I'm at a loss on what to do next. I guess I'm going to have to find a good detailer (I'm in Cincinnati) to try to remove the spots with a rotary. I just can't believe how hard this silly Scratch Shield self-repairing clear coat is. I've never had issues removing acid rain spots from other cars with far less aggressive methods.



Anyone have any suggestions or recommendations for a good detailer in Cincy?
 
It almost sounds like it might be below the clear if you weren't able to dent them at all with what you did. You would have removed a decent amount of paint with the number of passes it sounds like you did. Can you feel it with your fingernail? You can also try vinegar to remove it, I've heard decent results with that to eat away the minerals left behind if there are any.



Also, are you sure the scratch shield paint is on that car? It isn't on my 2010 Blueslate sedan. It would say under the hood on the passenger side on a sticker or in the drivers door jamb I believe.
 
The spots are definitely not under the clear coat (anyway, how would acid raid spots get under the clear?) and I do indeed have the "Scratch Shield" sticker under the hood. I'd be inclined to think they were something other than acid rain spots at this point if not for the fact that they're only on the top, horizontal surfaces of the car.



From what I've been reading about the Scratch Shield paint it's very tough to polish with any degree of success. Heck, even the swirl marks that the dealer left from using a rotary were a bear to get out. I think they're just pretty deeply etched and/or the clear is so hard that I'm having a hard time getting anywhere with it.



From what I've read Nissan/Infiniti used the Scratch Shield in 2009, dropped in for 2010, and picked it back up for 2011.
 
Maybe you'll end up having to go up to a wool or surbuf with 105, find someone that has done acid rain correction on an Audi with notoriously hard paint and find out what they had to do. Unfortunately I have only read about issues with crystal hard paint correction issues. Sounds like you've definitely got some work ahead of you :faint:
 
I hadn't considered the Meguiar's MF system. Do you think it'll really perform any better than my yellow LC pad & Menzerna Power Gloss combination?
 
I'm not sure MF discs would cut "much" better (normally I always love recommending these but the surbuf give a bit more cut and I've heard of Audi owners needing to resort to these for heavy correction).
 
Before anyone recommends something that might not work out well, can you post some pictures? How sure are you that it is acid rain damage? Are you positive it is not hard water etching?
 
yakky said:
Before anyone recommends something that might not work out well, can you post some pictures? How sure are you that it is acid rain damage? Are you positive it is not hard water etching?
Click to expand...

What's the difference? And how would the process of removal be different for each? There's no mineral "white rings" left on the paint if that helps. Whatever it is definitely etched into the paint.



I'll try tomorrow to get some pictures but it's pretty tough. I might have to bust out my tripod...:)
 
Okay, I managed to get some pictures. The trouble is that the pictures make the spots look white which they're not at all. They're completely transparent and can only be clearly seen under very direct natural light or fluorescent lighting (as in this picture). The spots completely cover the roof, hood, and trunk but as you can see from the picture the spots are only visible in direct lighting. In person they each look like very shallow pits if you look at them closely; unfortunately, that's not at all evident from the pictures I got.



Here's the trunk and the roof.
 
They could be the so called solvent pop, which is caused by the paint topcoats trapping evaporating solvent gases during curing and drying (outgas) the pressure builds causing micro-explosions (pop) pushing up small blister in the wet paint or topcoat. Solvent pop will appear after the film is "skinned over" and when sanded will have pinholes



•Improper paint prep

•Wrong solvent or reducer

•Excessive film thickness

•Too heavy and undercoat can trap solvents

•Insufficient outgas (paint cure)



Use an abrasive polish to remove and then re-clear (may be a dealership rectification)



Perhaps RonK could help with a better resolution
 
TOGWT said:
They could be the so called solvent pop, which is caused by the paint topcoats trapping evaporating solvent gases during curing and drying (outgas) the pressure builds causing micro-explosions (pop) pushing up small blister in the wet paint or topcoat. Solvent pop will appear after the film is "skinned over" and when sanded will have pinholes



•Improper paint prep

•Wrong solvent or reducer

•Excessive film thickness

•Too heavy and undercoat can trap solvents

•Insufficient outgas (paint cure)



Use an abrasive polish to remove and then re-clear (may be a dealership rectification)



Perhaps RonK could help with a better resolution
Click to expand...



I don't know. On a factory-applied paint job? And only on flat, horizontal surfaces? I still think all signs point to acid rain damage and a very hard clear coat. I do have an appointment next week for the dealer's body shop (not the dealer's detailing monkeys) to assess the damage and advise on possible repairs so we'll see how that goes. I'll probably push them to contact Nissan's tech line to get a "factory sanctioned" way-ahead.
 
Hi, you too huh? I have an 11 g37x malbec black, same thing. There are lines about an inch from the belt moldings along the doors & into the quarter panels. There's one along the roof toward the back (around antenna) and one on the decklid along the spoiler. The unwrapped areas are also accompanied by spotting. This is from paint weathering around the protective wrap (that most manufacturers have gotten away from) as it's applied irregularly.



I have been going round and round with Infiniti, as they'd like to half-*** respray it with a product they have no experience spraying in the "certified" local dealer. Not to mention the inherent decrease in value of having an overall paint job on a current model car. Good luck, I'm about to lawyer up as they're "working on a resolution" and have no answers, just lip service. Love the car. Crappy clearcoat. Let me know if you're having any luck removing them. Mine are pitted to the point where there's no chance they'll come out. It's been to the dealer three times, and will require a fourth visit for a full repaint.



Jeff
 
Guys, what hasn't been mentioned, and what has always been my understanding that is very important in situations like this is doing a thorough, 3 step wash with the Valugard ABC decontamination system. Its an acid-alkaline-neutral three part wash that was designed just for these situations.



My understanding always has been that once acid rain is present in the car's paint, it remains there and gets reactivated with exposure to the environment and rain. The three step wash neutralizes the acid so repairs to the clear can be effective and permanent.



Shame on Infiniti's handling of this situation. The clear sounds similar to that of Audi and Mercedes and with acid rain etch, if by chance the car doesn't get a full repaint, it sounds at the least it's going to need extensive rotary correction ,maybe even some spot wet/color sanding. Hope all works out in the end but I highly recommend the Valugard or the Finish Kare system.



I'd also seal the paint more often than average with the hopes of really keeping acid exposure under control.
 
jstout said:
Hi, you too huh? I have an 11 g37x malbec black, same thing. There are lines about an inch from the belt moldings along the doors & into the quarter panels. There's one along the roof toward the back (around antenna) and one on the decklid along the spoiler. The unwrapped areas are also accompanied by spotting. This is from paint weathering around the protective wrap (that most manufacturers have gotten away from) as it's applied irregularly.



I have been going round and round with Infiniti, as they'd like to half-*** respray it with a product they have no experience spraying in the "certified" local dealer. Not to mention the inherent decrease in value of having an overall paint job on a current model car. Good luck, I'm about to lawyer up as they're "working on a resolution" and have no answers, just lip service. Love the car. Crappy clearcoat. Let me know if you're having any luck removing them. Mine are pitted to the point where there's no chance they'll come out. It's been to the dealer three times, and will require a fourth visit for a full repaint.



Jeff
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Jeff, have you taken it to a "real" detailer yet? The guy I'm working with so far seems to think he can correct the etching by wet sanding with a 3000-grit dual-action pad followed by a somewhat-standard polishing routine. I'm also going to check with another local pro detailer who says he has experience with this type of clear coat. My Infiniti dealer's body shop hasn't evaluated the paint yet but I'm not terribly thrilled with the prospect of having the clear coat reshot. The first detailer I spoke to also recommended a private body shop who I might consult if a respray is deemed necessary. We shall see -- I fully intend to go the detailing/polishing/wet-sanding route before I go down the repaint road. I find it extremely hard to believe that my acid rain spots would only be resolved with a repaint...they just don't seem that deep (you can't feel them).



Please keep this thread updated with any progress you make, and I'll do the same! Before you lawyer up, have you tried contacting Nissan Corporate? I had some issues with my 2008 Nissan Armada and corporate was able to make them right.



Like you, I absolutely love the car, but this clear coat situation really pisses me off.
 
Schwa72 said:
Jeff, have you taken it to a "real" detailer yet? The guy I'm working with so far seems to think he can correct the etching by wet sanding with a 3000-grit dual-action pad followed by a somewhat-standard polishing routine. I'm also going to check with another local pro detailer who says he has experience with this type of clear coat. My Infiniti dealer's body shop hasn't evaluated the paint yet but I'm not terribly thrilled with the prospect of having the clear coat reshot. The first detailer I spoke to also recommended a private body shop who I might consult if a respray is deemed necessary. We shall see -- I fully intend to go the detailing/polishing/wet-sanding route before I go down the repaint road. I find it extremely hard to believe that my acid rain spots would only be resolved with a repaint...they just don't seem that deep (you can't feel them).



Please keep this thread updated with any progress you make, and I'll do the same! Before you lawyer up, have you tried contacting Nissan Corporate? I had some issues with my 2008 Nissan Armada and corporate was able to make them right.



Like you, I absolutely love the car, but this clear coat situation really pisses me off.
Click to expand...



I haven't taken it to a detail shop. I am working with infiniti, but they refused a buyback & now I'm waiting for them to have someone come out & inspect it. Thing is, I'm acutally a certified painter, waterborne & solvent based in both PPG and BASF (Glasurit & RM). While I haven't sprayed this kind of clear, I have about twenty years of experience spraying/wetsanding/rubbing fresh paint. I currently manage a large collision/detail shop. That said, all of the canned answers & lip service I've received thus far from Infiniti & the dealer have done nothing but enrage me, as I'm knowledgable in this area. I was told that a full repaint wouldn't affect the value, but we all know otherwise--especially since I had to sign papers (under penalty of perjury) stating my Lexus trade to buy this car had no paint work. No one that buys a $44k limited edition car (350 made with this package) wants to see tape lines in the jambs, wetsanded dust nibs, and inconsistent peel on the clear. I'm also concerned about the choppy appearance that can come with a repaint in a production dealer shop where technicians hate warranty work. Upon close inspect, the lines in the paint are quite deep, and I'm concerned that removing too much mil thickness will result in delamination and or poor hold out in the future with regard to UV rays etc. Furthermore, the dealer rubbed so long in the same spot that my roof now looks like waves in the ocean from excessive heat. I believe what's really happening is the dealers hold some liability as far as when the cars need to be unwrapped, and as a result there's an internal pissing match between manufacturer & dealer. Regardless, I've been waiting six weeks for infiniti to tell me what's next, and I just keep getting "we're working on it". While I'm aggravated enough to start a negative add campaign on social media & blogs, I love the brand and would buy another in a second. Infiniti doesn't place much emphasis on customer retention though, or atleast I haven't seen it. I'm trying to catch flies with Honey not vinegar, but they don't seem too receptive to that. That aside, (pardon my rant) does anyone have any info or experience on the paint's holdout if there's excessive wetsanding? I don't want it to get "grainy looking", not to mention have it so flat in some areas that the tighter orange peel sticks out against it...

Thanks guys
 
i have worked on 3 of these silly cars. The paint reacts to heat, essentially swelling up when polished. It won't take the edges off because they swell to where there is no edges left in the deffect. Once cooled, the defects are back. Use a light to medium cut wool pad at about 1200 RPM, I know its slow, but so is fixing this stuff. that will leave a marred finish, follow up with a mid cut polish mixedwith a finishing polish at slower than usual speed and fix the marring. Hope this works like it did for me
 
Well, I picked up my car from the detailer today and he was unable to remove the acid rain spots, even after wet sanding a section with 1500-grit sandpaper. This detailer (who I found from the Autopia forums; he's reputable) even took the car to the body shop he works with for an assessment. The body shop felt that it'd be possible to wet sand the spots out, but the process would remove so much clear that it wouldn't be a good idea. They didn't want to attempt to reshoot the clear coat because they don't have any experience with Scratch Shield paint and they also felt that the fallout that caused the damage would rear its head again by coming up from beneath the new clear and damaging it.



Tomorrow I'll begin the process of trying to get my dealer to buy the car back. I'm pretty sure I won't be successful but it's worth a try. I expect that they'll want to try to repaint the car, so my question is this: Is it possible for them to respray only the clear coat? Only the roof, hood, and trunk are damaged on my car, so I don't think repainting only the clear would turn out too badly...as long as Scratch Shield-compatible paint were used. If they want to repaint the color coat and the clear coat I'll pitch a major fit. I think I'd prefer to live with the original issue than risk the problems that might come along with a full base coat/clear coat respray.
 
Just reshoot the clear, NO.

The affects area's must be taken down to surface primers at the least.(remove the acids which created the concern)

An acid etch primer/or "sealer" should be applied. (provides a barrier from any residual acids from creeping up and being reactivated)

Then a new base coat.

Last step of the paint process is application of the clearcoat.

Ask if the shop doing the repaint are using a Nissan/Infiniti approved paint system.

Ask them if the paint application is covered by the warranty for repainting of the paint supplier.

PPG, DuPont provide a warranty for their materials applied if it is done by a shop they trained and certified, to the paint supplier/vendor's specs.

There are other refinish paint suppliers who have stepped up to the warranty other than these two, not sure just which are doing so.

Ask if by having such done by an approved, trained shop, (I-CAR Gold or Silver) will use warrantied materials.

Request of the dealerships that they provide Nissan/Infiniti documentations to substansiate the continued coverage of your warranty of paint.

Normally, if you ask these questions, if you don't show weakness, but strength of knowledge, they will do what is needed.

They will not normaly do a buy back on a paint concern unless one exhibits some knowledge of what is required, uses a method of explaining that they have some knowledge of just what created the concern and full disclosure of expectations.

Send me a private message if you desire more information, as it is a "legal issure" regarding how to obtain resolution.

Of course, you will most likely scare the heck out of them by doing such, so "watch the eyes and the sweat from the pits"

Grumpy
 
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