Having trouble polishing out minor swirls

T

TGates

Active member
I decided to redo my GTO this evening and went ahead and clayed it and got it ready for polishing. I was using Propel 4" pads on the trouble areas (trunk lid/spoiler) and using their orange (light cutting) pad with Menzerna IP and then their green (polishing pad) with P0106FF. The marks are not too bad (I don't have a picture) but I thought SURELY they would come out with the IP. I am working them in at speed 5-5.5, working approximately an inch per second, going the width of the trunk lid first, overlapping 50%, then across it back and forth the other way, and back the first way to finish. I'm also only polishing half at a time, then the other half, then wiping off the residue with the aid of a spritz of #34, using Pakshak Ultra Fines.



The marks are less noticeable, but still there. The car is dark blue metallic.



I have IP/FPII, 106FF, OP, SSR1/2.5, 1ZPP, ZPC, and the Clearkote glazes. Due to an unforeseen problem with the velcro backing on the green pad, I had to call it a night early. When I get another pad and can continue my work, I need a near perfect finish as I had hoped to try the Werkstatt system (thus no glaze).



Suggestions?
 
If you have a polishing pad ( normally white) try this. Spray the pad. just one squirt with QD. Then place one very thin X across pad. Work a 12 in square until clear. If that makes a difference then you may be able to expand to a larger square. Hope this helps..sure cant hurt.
 
BlackSunshine said:
I decided to redo my GTO this evening and went ahead and clayed it and got it ready for polishing. I was using Propel 4" pads on the trouble areas (trunk lid/spoiler) and using their orange (light cutting) pad with Menzerna IP and then their green (polishing pad) with P0106FF. The marks are not too bad (I don't have a picture) but I thought SURELY they would come out with the IP. I am working them in at speed 5-5.5, working approximately an inch per second, going the width of the trunk lid first, overlapping 50%, then across it back and forth the other way, and back the first way to finish. I'm also only polishing half at a time, then the other half, then wiping off the residue with the aid of a spritz of #34, using Pakshak Ultra Fines.



The marks are less noticeable, but still there. The car is dark blue metallic.



I have IP/FPII, 106FF, OP, SSR1/2.5, 1ZPP, ZPC, and the Clearkote glazes. Due to an unforeseen problem with the velcro backing on the green pad, I had to call it a night early. When I get another pad and can continue my work, I need a near perfect finish as I had hoped to try the Werkstatt system (thus no glaze).



Suggestions?
Click to expand...



Looks like you have the right concept of polishing. I would stay away from any kind of cutting type pad(even foam) for your application, it's too heavy. Don't be afraid to use a good amount of product WITH spritz. Keep it wet and don't finish it dry. You might want to try switching to another polish/wax combo to see if it helps. PM me with suggestions.
 
Thanks for the replies. I forgot to mention I had spritzed the pads with Turtle Wax Platinum Ultra... whatever it is Gloss QD as I am trying to get rid of it.



I think tomorrow I will try to spend some more time with it and try to get most of the swirls out. I really like the finish Menzerna polishes leave... I just don't want there to be any scratches in that finish.
 
Don't QD's increase the power of a polish when sprayed onto a machine buff pad and is a no no

Read this on here a while back



I'm just using water
 
SVR said:
Don't QD's increase the power of a polish when sprayed onto a machine buff pad and is a no no

Read this on here a while back



I'm just using water
Click to expand...

Water does the same thing.



Just that with QDs, you don't know if it will interact with the polish, so water is the usual consensus.



Black Sunshine: From what I read from your post, you only did 3 passes. I find that not enough for the really serious swirls. If you only polish once or twice a year, then do more passes. I rarely cut my car, so I do 7-8 passes once, while adding product if required (after wiping off the residue).
 
I had a problem getting the proper surface conditions with the Menzerna line until I read this article with pictures of the process. I refer to it often. having read this my surface has gotten better and better each time that i have applied the product. Hope this will help.http://www.melncal.com/detailing/ssr.html
 
Since I'll have to work with the regular 6" pads this afternoon, it's going to make things even more interesting. I will slow it down quite a bit, make more passes and work in smaller sections. I have a hard time knowing when the polish is through working. Also, I get serious dusting with 106FF.
 
BlackSunshine said:
Since I'll have to work with the regular 6" pads this afternoon, it's going to make things even more interesting. I will slow it down quite a bit, make more passes and work in smaller sections. I have a hard time knowing when the polish is through working. Also, I get serious dusting with 106FF.
Click to expand...





If you are geting serious dusting you are using too much and maybe working it too long at a high speed. my advice would be keep the PC at 5 and work a small area with some pressure. use about 1/4 the size of a dime on a 1x1 area to start. I can polish my Trailblazer with an ounce or just slightly more. keep the pc moving slow, even slow down to 1 inch per 2 seconds or three seconds. look for the polish to turn opaque but not quite perfectly clear hope this helps you out.
 
FWIW I do most of my PC polishing on speed 6 and I prime my pads with the product, not water/QD unless I have a specific reason to do that (that's with a PC, I will sometimes use #34 with the rotary).



And yeah, it can take many, many passes by PC to effect correction. Depending on the paint (hardness) and the marring it can take literally hours to do one panel.



If the polishing pad is soft enough to leave a ready-to-wax finish (and it oughta be) I wouldn't switch to a finishing pad until all the marring is gone. Finishing pads are great for a final burnishing, but almost all polishing pads are mild enough to leave a marring-free finish and IMO they work better for correction (by PC) for a number of reasons. And until the marring is gone (or you say "good enough" ;) ) you're still doing correction.



Remember that the larger pad will be much less aggressive than the 4" one was.



This sounds like the rent-a-Suburban I did last year...and that one would've been murder without the rotary.
 
I guess I'm just surprised they didn't come out more easily. I mean, I bought the car new (has 7200 miles on it now), have polished it twice already (once with OP and once with ZPC by hand) and after each of those sessions the car was satisfactory. The swirling (actually it's probably wash/QD induced marring) is no worse this time than then. I don't THINK the clearcoat is anything fancy... it's just your general GM painted car (i.e. terribly splotchy), although it is assembled in Australia. I don't know if they use different techniques in their plants down there or not.



At one point, I got frustrated enough at this one little hairline scratch that is fine enough to disappear even as you scan your eyes across the panel, that I took Scratch-X and a terry cloth applicator pad and tried to buff that ONE little mark out, but nope. The scratch was NOT deep, and I have removed much worse with Scratch-X. Maybe I was holding my mouth wrong.



I just polished my entire Corvette with 106FF and other than the dusting issue it went well, although it IS silver metallic, not dark blue metallic like my GTO.



I still have three of the four Excel pads (yellow, orange, and blue) so I would like to try to work with those on the trouble areas still yet. I'm not sure if the blue pad with FPII or SSR1 will clear out any micromarring caused by the orange pad and IP or SSR2.5, though.



flatstick: I will try using less product. I am currently squeezing out a small amount around the outside edge of the pad. Maybe I will try either a small X or two small circles.



Accumulator- The thing about the pad size is what worries me. If I couldn't coax them out with the 4" I don't see the 6" helping me out any.
 
Something to think about when trying to get a scratch out by hand A rotary spinning at over 1000 rpms (*one thousand*) is gonna go over that scratch a whole lot of times even if you don't work it all that long. How many times do you think you *really* go over a scratch by hand ;) And you're not creating the heat that a rotary will produce either.



Some marring is just really hard to get out, and dark colors are unforgivingly honest about their condition.



How badly do you really want to use a sealant on it ;)
 
Accumulator said:
Something to think about when trying to get a scratch out by hand A rotary spinning at over 1000 rpms (*one thousand*) is gonna go over that scratch a whole lot of times even if you don't work it all that long. How many times do you think you *really* go over a scratch by hand ;) And you're not creating the heat that a rotary will produce either.



Some marring is just really hard to get out, and dark colors are unforgivingly honest about their condition.



How badly do you really want to use a sealant on it ;)
Click to expand...



I thought Scratch-X was pretty abrasive... certainly moreso than the 106FF. I just wanted to check and make sure it wasn't user error on my part using the PC. They're just such darn little marks and are not deep. Maybe I'll be able to go RMG/EX-P. I think it's got a better chance over a glaze than AJ.
 
If the polishing pad is soft enough to leave a ready-to-wax finish (and it oughta be) I wouldn't switch to a finishing pad until all the marring is gone. Finishing pads are great for a final burnishing, but almost all polishing pads are mild enough to leave a marring-free finish and IMO they work better for correction (by PC) for a number of reasons. And until the marring is gone (or you say "good enough" ) you're still doing correction.
Click to expand...



Hehehe I forget that some peoples paint isnt extremely soft AND black....even with a pc I almost always have to use a finishing pad to get a true marring free surface. Polishing pads will leave some marring on my paint, even with proper polish break down and pressure on the machine. I was thinking maybe the marring he was seeing was from the pad and not left over marring that was there before.
 
scottabir said:
Hehehe I forget that some peoples paint isnt extremely soft AND black....even with a pc I almost always have to use a finishing pad to get a true marring free surface. Polishing pads will leave some marring on my paint, even with proper polish break down and pressure on the machine. I was thinking maybe the marring he was seeing was from the pad and not left over marring that was there before.
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I'm gonna try going to a blue Propel pad which is one step below a traditional finishing pad and using FPII with it.
 
scottabir said:
Hehehe I forget that some peoples paint isnt extremely soft .... I was thinking maybe the marring he was seeing was from the pad and not left over marring that was there before.
Click to expand...



Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I usually think about the hard clear on my Audis and I have to really shift gears mentally when it comes to very soft paint (like the ss on my Jag, and it's not even ss *black* which would be even softer). Having both extremes here, with our Mazda sorta in the middle, keeps me on my toes. I was guessing that his GTO's (GM) paint was similar to what they use on the Suburbans but that might be a stretch...
 
BlackSunshine said:
I will try using less product. I am currently squeezing out a small amount around the outside edge of the pad. Maybe I will try either a small X or two small circles.
Click to expand...



Using the OCP I use very little polish. On a primed pad (70 ppi; and quite stiff) this amount works the best and is the most effective:



DSC00320c.jpg
 
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