Hi all. I just detailed a friends car with my new Porter Cable. I used an unknown orange pad and wolfgang total swirl remover 3.0 to remove swirls on the car... but it didn't seem to work at all! A little bit of the swirling went away.. but it was still obvious that it was there. I was using a smaller backing plate (large one won't stick to pads) and a 6 inch pad. Started at speed 2 to spread product around... then 2.5 and a decent amount of pressure; 2 passes of that and I lightened up to a softer pressure and put the speed around 3.25 or so; then two passes of that lightening up on pressure after each pass. Well... needless to say, after wiping the area down with a microfiber there were still swirls there! And obviously there were RIDS as well! I hit that area numerous times and must have done upwards of 10 passes on it and swirls still showed up clear as day. What am I doing wrong? Can someone please lend some advice. Thanks.
Having serious trouble removing swirls!
- Thread starter MS3Tyl3r
- Start date
Try turning the speed up on your PC to a 6.
Removing the swirls also depends upon the hardness of the paint as well. I am not totally sure of what the abarision rating is for Wolfgang swirl remover, but if you still do not get any result after bumping up the speed then you may need to buy some compound to do the job right.
If Wolfgang is a filler product then you have done everything correctly with applying it. If you want total swirl removal then you are going to need some polish or maybe even a compund. Take some pics and post so that the Autopians can help you better.
Removing the swirls also depends upon the hardness of the paint as well. I am not totally sure of what the abarision rating is for Wolfgang swirl remover, but if you still do not get any result after bumping up the speed then you may need to buy some compound to do the job right.
If Wolfgang is a filler product then you have done everything correctly with applying it. If you want total swirl removal then you are going to need some polish or maybe even a compund. Take some pics and post so that the Autopians can help you better.
I'm not so sure the small backing plate with 6" pads is going to cut it...especially depending on the clear hardness etc...
For more correction, you can try:
-- Speed 5 on the PC for correction (first off...that should help a LOT)
-- Switching to 4" pads and according 3.5" backing plate (better idea)
-- Try some M105 if you're still not removing enough defects (harsher cutting compound)
Compund cut chart shows the WG3.0 at a 6/10 cut level, M105 at 10/10:
Autogeek Swirl Removers & Compounds Comparison Chart
You'll also want to ensure the microfibre you're using isn't instilling NEW swirls as you wipe down!
Oh, and in my limited experience some RIDS just won't go away and aren't worth chasing with a PC...may need possible wetsanding/rotary or even a respray depending on their depth etc (as in, might be worth just settling for 80-90% correction, depending on client's expectations).
Good luck.
For more correction, you can try:
-- Speed 5 on the PC for correction (first off...that should help a LOT)
-- Switching to 4" pads and according 3.5" backing plate (better idea)
-- Try some M105 if you're still not removing enough defects (harsher cutting compound)
Compund cut chart shows the WG3.0 at a 6/10 cut level, M105 at 10/10:
Autogeek Swirl Removers & Compounds Comparison Chart
You'll also want to ensure the microfibre you're using isn't instilling NEW swirls as you wipe down!
Oh, and in my limited experience some RIDS just won't go away and aren't worth chasing with a PC...may need possible wetsanding/rotary or even a respray depending on their depth etc (as in, might be worth just settling for 80-90% correction, depending on client's expectations).
Good luck.
Ok. Thanks guys. Will getting 4 inch pads be as effective as just getting a bigger backing plate? Yeah... I had the speed set way too low. TSR3.0 has no fillers and has diminishing abrasives and says it can remove 2000 grit scratches. I followed up with Wolfgang finishing Glaze on a white pad and that didn't do much either (once again... low speed and too big of a pad). How can I be 100% sure that the microfiber I'm using isn't putting more swirls into the paint?
Here are some pics of a friend I know who does a detailing side job and used Meg's 83 (DACP) which has the same cut level as TSR3.0. He always gets pretty flawless results and only uses a Porter Cable:
BLUE-SUN Detail: Labor Day Details - Mazda Forums
Here are some pics of a friend I know who does a detailing side job and used Meg's 83 (DACP) which has the same cut level as TSR3.0. He always gets pretty flawless results and only uses a Porter Cable:
BLUE-SUN Detail: Labor Day Details - Mazda Forums
Accumulator
Well-known member
MS3Tyl3r said:
Using smaller pads utterly transforms the PC, which IME simply cannot do anything productive with large pads (at least not in a timely manner).
Noting that I've never used that product, a *lot* of products that say they can remove 2K scratches fail to do decent correction in real world applications. Heh heh, seems like a whole scad of products say that 2K stuff.
Plus, you said you did about ten passes or so with pressure and IME that's seldom enough work to really remove significant marring via PC no matter what pad/product you're using. Even with something like M105 it can take a *LOT* of time/passes to do this stuff via PC.
One more thing, different orange pads behave differently. I myself wouldn't use *any* pad on somebody else's car unless I knew a little bit about it.
If the MF is instilling marring you should see it happening; you wipe horizontally and you get horizontal scratches. I'm assuming you already CD-tested the MFs in question to make sure they're at least in the ballpark.
You just can't compare another job/person with your situation, not a pal whom you know or somebody posting a C & B here. And in this case there are not only different people doing the work, on different cars, but also with different products (don't believe that "same cut" talk, every product works differently to some extent).
Get the small backing plate and some 4" pads and plan on still spending a fair amount of time per panel. It's not unusual for a fender to take at least a half hour via PC (and maybe many times that) no matter what you're using.
Another question... how long should it take to do a detail like I did? I want more of a cut & dry answer... not this "well it depends on this and that and whatnot." Sorry, just being real here... because this detail took me 13 hours and it wasn't even that good. It took me 2 hours to claybar for god's sake and 2 hours to clean under the hood and door-jambs. 2 or so on the interior and the rest into the paint correction process. That seems very very long and I'd like to know how to cut down on this time. Thanks.
Well... its just that I've noticed that all your guy's answers are always "It depends on this and that and whatnot and you can't compare this to that... so time will ALWAYS be different and so on." I guess what I really am meaning to ask is... "How long does the AVERAGE detail take you?"
imported_mystic04
New member
For me at least and i know you don't want to hear this but again it's what needes to be done and what the customer wants. A once over polishing , wash,clay, one step polish, clean /vacu inside ,windows, clean wheels, seal /wax car.
i can do in 4 to 6 hours. more polishing equals more time spend.Aslo depends on size of the car a 2 door is less time than a 4 and vert is lest time than a coupe.
i can do in 4 to 6 hours. more polishing equals more time spend.Aslo depends on size of the car a 2 door is less time than a 4 and vert is lest time than a coupe.
Accumulator
Well-known member
MS3Tyl3r said:
*I* can't really answer that as I don't do what I'd consider "average details" the way most people here do; mine are either quickie touch-ups (wash/clay/LSP) or full-blown jobs that take several days.
I'll say right up front that I don't know how people do a decent detail in only a few hours.
Your two hours to claybar sounds like a long time. BUT..if it meant that you were able to decontaminate without causing additional marring it might've been time well spent. Otherwise, using a more aggressive clay would let you go faster, but would also cause more marring. If the marring is mild enough to be taken care of by your regular polishing anyhow, that's not a big deal.
Your two hours under the hood doesn't sound excessive if you did a good job. Heh heh, I can spend *days* on that
I can spend over two hours on just doorjambs if I'm cleaning/polishing/LSPing them as it's tough to work in the tight areas. BUT...I don't think you need to be as meticulous as I am, at least not most of the time. You could do these quickly by wiping down with a solvent and just using an AIO or even a W-O-W-O product.
Getting a pad/product combo that gets the marring under control in fewer passes will help too, but that might never go as quickly as you'd like unless you step up to more aggressive machines.
PC takes a long time but is a great machine for a beginner. Like Accumulator eluded to, when you step up to a rotary, the chance of creating problems is greater, but the efficiency and effectiveness is also greatly increased. This will help to make the polishing stages go much quicker and quite often, yeild a better result.
Just practice and as you go, you'll get quicker. Also, read EVERYTHING on this site as there is a wealth of information to learn.
Just practice and as you go, you'll get quicker. Also, read EVERYTHING on this site as there is a wealth of information to learn.
