Has a customer ever refused to pay you?

T

T. Perinne

New member
I was reading on another forum where a former detailer told a story about how he had once taken a job for several hundred dollars, completed the detail at what he thought was an acceptable level of quality, only to be told by the customer that it just "wasn't good enough" and was only given $50 since "that was all the detail was worth".



I immediately thought of all the pros here and was just curious how you would handle this situation... or any other where a customer refuses to pay the agreed upon fee. Do you get payment in advance? Do you throw the dirty water back on the car :)? I'm just curious...
 
Key it on the way out.



No but seriously, I never begin a detail without them signing a estimated price and that they can afford to pay it and they are willing to pay it...
 
I would ask WHY they felt that way and try to understand it from their point of view first. If they just dont want to pay the full price...that is another story. By walking around the vehicle and getting the expectations of the customers and being honest with what your abilities will do I think you can eliminate a lot of this threat.

If you fulfilled your end of the bargain and they still wont pay, the keys are mine until payment. If they have a valid reason I will correct whatever I missed on my end of the bargain.
 
I have a form i use when i get a bad vibe from a customer. It says that they agree to the upfront price of the detail and there vehicle will not be released until the fee is bad.



so no payment, no keys back to the car.
 
Cool, interesting answers... I was wondering if a typical private detailer could go as far as holding back a customer's keys. I bet that could make for some nasty confrontations though...



Hopefully nothing like this ever happens to you guys... the story I read was the reason its author quit professional detailing so it had me wondering if any Autopians had faced the issue.



Thanks!
 
mirrorfinishman said:
I have never had a customer refuse to pay and I would never expect my customers to sign any type of form for my services.
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Well, then you are just asking for a possible headache. I go over each vehicle with customers I do not know and write all damages down using a check in sheet. It goes over the complete condition and says on the sheet that payment is due once the vehicle is completed or the vehicle will not be released.



In business you need to cover your butt.
 
If anyone refuses to pay, this is called theft of services and is illegal in all 50 states. You can call the police and if they attempt to leave or if they have already left, they can be arrested. Certainly if you have a signed agreement with the customer, you will have more ammo when the cops get there. There's little point in getting confrontational. Call the police, that's their job. Just the threat of calling the police should be enough to deter most people.
 
It's a theft if they agree that the got the service they wanted but won't pay. Here you have a civil disagreement and no legal right to hold the keys. I suspect most cops would say give up the keys or face charges as well! Many states allow Mechanic's liens which if the customer signed as part of the original estimate, means it can't leave until paid. It would be interesting to see if detailer's would be considred a mechanic in your state.
 
If the customer's only retort is the job "wasn't good enough", without providing specific examples and a very good reason, clearly they are attempting to obtain services by deception and fraud which is illegal. It doesn't matter if they agree they got what they pay for or not. If they don't have a legitimate complaint with the service which a reasonable person would agree with, clearly their intent is to receive services at a drastic discount.



There is a certainly percentage of people out there who pull these kind of things all the time. They get a particular satisfaction out of knowing they pay far less for services because they know most people won't go through the hassle to challenge them. The best way to handle it is to call their bluff and get the police there. If it is a bluff, they will undoubtedly pay up at just the mention of the police. The worst thing that can happen is the police will side with the customer which means he would be no worse off anyway.
 
I have only had it happen once. The kid gave me a bad vibe when we negotiated the price and when he came back to pick up the car he kept insisting that we take the car outside and he wouldn't pay until he looked at outside. I finally agreed and then when we got it outside he said he wasn't happy with the job and offered me $100 instead of the $150 we agreed upon. I said no and he showed me that was all he had brought with him so take it or leave it. I then asked him "if that was all you brought - and you hadn't seen the car then how did you know you wouldn't be happy and that would be all you were willing to pay for the work". He didn't have an answer for that - BUSTED! Needless to say it was closing time and I didn't want to argue for an hour so I told him to be back with the money in half an hour or face the consequences, He never showed so the next day I sent some unpleasant people I know over to beat the money out of him. The funny thing is I got a phone call from his Dad bitching me out for sending the "legbreakers" after him but he still wouldn't just take care of the $50 his kid had ripped me off. You wonder where people get the mentality - at home. Anyway, we got paid and all was well.
 
Pondscum said:
If anyone refuses to pay, this is called theft of services and is illegal in all 50 states. You can call the police and if they attempt to leave or if they have already left, they can be arrested. Certainly if you have a signed agreement with the customer, you will have more ammo when the cops get there. There's little point in getting confrontational. Call the police, that's their job. Just the threat of calling the police should be enough to deter most people.
Click to expand...
This is the best answer I've read, thus far!



(1) Go over the car with the customer for all prior damage.

(2) Have customer sign an agreement.

(3) If they refuse to pay fee, let them go, then call police.



Works for me!



Charles
 
I thought this scenario would be evan more touchy for the mobile detailer since a) they are usually a one man operation and b) you are going to the customer's home turf or at least a neutral ground (i.e. their office). These facts would lead me to guess that a customer would be more likely to start something with a private detailer that is standing on their driveway. I think a customer walking into your business (shop w/ storefront) to get their car done would be less likely to not pay... and the detailer has more clout in his own shop vs. in the field.



It would be tough for me to control myself if I went to somebody's house for a deatil and got stiffed. I really don't know whatthe cops could officialy do - I don't know if they can force money to exchange hands, that seems like a civil court matter. I would guess the cops could force people to return pieces of property to the rightful owner i.e. car keys, car, tools, etc... but would leave the rest to the courts :nixweiss
 
crobinso said:
This is the best answer I've read, thus far!



(1) Go over the car with the customer for all prior damage.

(2) Have customer sign an agreement.

(3) If they refuse to pay fee, let them go, then call police.



Works for me!



Charles
Click to expand...



The only thing is, I wouldn't be so quick to let them go. Try to get the cops there while the customer is still present. If they leave and the cops don't catch them on the road, trying to get a warrant issued would be a real problem.
 
T. Perinne said:
I thought this scenario would be evan more touchy for the mobile detailer since a) they are usually a one man operation and b) you are going to the customer's home turf or at least a neutral ground (i.e. their office). These facts would lead me to guess that a customer would be more likely to start something with a private detailer that is standing on their driveway. I think a customer walking into your business (shop w/ storefront) to get their car done would be less likely to not pay... and the detailer has more clout in his own shop vs. in the field.



It would be tough for me to control myself if I went to somebody's house for a deatil and got stiffed. I really don't know whatthe cops could officialy do - I don't know if they can force money to exchange hands, that seems like a civil court matter. I would guess the cops could force people to return pieces of property to the rightful owner i.e. car keys, car, tools, etc... but would leave the rest to the courts :nixweiss
Click to expand...



It would be much more touchy. If someone told you to get off their property, and you didn't, you would be trespassing and could be arrested.
 
CYA clause



COVER YOUR ***



No one else is gonna.

And there is way to many people looking for a scapgoat anymore. They always have to have someone else to blame instead of themselves.



Chubs
 
Fortunately, I have never had this problem. I do make it a habit of not giving the client the keys until the compensation for the detail has been given.
 
Tanguy-actually, since you know where the customer lives and what they drive, they will pay you....especially in my case since in all likelyhood, I have already taken pictures of their freshly detailed car-in front of their house.



I have only had two problems. One was a hot check that I was unable to collect on. The woman was evicted from her house a week or two after I did the work and I was unable to track her down. I turned over the check to the state, but I guess they've never found her. The statute of limitations has run out by now anyway.



The other time was a 1992 Bonneville. It was a little out of my normal area but it had been a slow week so I took the job. The owner was selling it and wanted it cleaned up. He said it was in excellent condition and it shouldn't need much (which always scares the you-know-what out of me) and his wife would be at the house. I get to their house and only the kids are there. The car, as I expected was a real POS. Ground in grime in the carpeting, scratches, scuffs and spider swirls in the paint, etc. I put about 4.5-5 hours into that car and I was pleasantly suprised that it cleaned up well. By then, the wife had returned home, looked over the car and seemed really pleased.



About 8pm that evening, I get a call on my cell phone. I recognized it as their number and the voice as that of the husband. He says he got my number was a friend and asked when I do a detail if cleaning the engine was included. I told him I didn't do engines without a signed release because of the the liability I could incur if any electrical parts were damaged by washing. He then asked if I guaranteed I can remove all stains and scratches. I told him I didn't and that no one could guarantee that. Some stains are permanent and deep scratches require repainting. I knew where he was going, there was a small red stain that wouldn't lift at all, a couple of scrapes that were into the primer and I didn't do his engine because he when he originally called and asked what a detail involved, I didn't mention the engine and without someone of legal age at the house to sign a release, I wasn't going to anyway.



He finally told me who he was and that he was disappointed in the work. He then said he was sending his wife out to me to pick up the check since he was mad at her for paying me. He said when I came out and removed the stain, scratches and cleaned his engine, he'd give me the check back. He ended up making his wife drive 30 miles (one way) to me to get the check. She was thoroughly P.O.ed...at him, not me. She said she told him that red stains can be permanent, they even had one in their dining room that wouldn't come out and she also agreed that fender needed repainting. I told her there was no way I was coming back out to their house and put another second into that car for her husband. I wasn't going to drive all the way out there again, spend another hour or two and have him find something else to nitpick and not pay me. She said she understood and would tell him.



He called me up the next day, all mad at me about not coming back out. I told him I didn't trust him to pay me and he can find someone else to put up with his crap. I then hung up on him. He called back and I hung up on him again. I guess he got the message because he didn't call back after that.



Since then, I have insisted an adult be at the house (with new customers) to go over the vehicle with me before I start. If no adult can be there, then I reschedule.
 
I can't believe you gave the guy the check back Scott. I would have told the guy to piss up a rope after the little act he put on over the phone. I usually get one nut job customer every 12-18 months which isn't bad considering. We did get a similar situation a long time back where a woman kept calling all week (I knew it was the same person because the call display showed a very long, distinctive italian name so I remembered it) asking the same questions over and over. I think she was trying to get me to trip up and give her a different price or something. She finally called and asked if we could do the shampoo on her Lumina van that day (she called around 10 am) because she needed to go on a trip the next day. I told her I would squeeze her in and that it might not be dry when she got it back at 5 - no earlier. I looked over the van with her when she got there and verified the price and they left. Upon arriving back at 5 they go on to inspect the van and start chatting between themselves and I walk over after dealing with the last customer and ask how they like the job. They say that they like the interior job was great but we didn't clean the engine or wax the paint. I looked at the lady with amazement and told them that I would be happy to do that if they wanted me to but they had only asked for and more importantly were quoted for the interior job. The husband at this point gets beligerant and starts yelling at the top of his lungs that I am a liar and that I am ripping him off. I politely asked them into the office (3 little kids in tow) and show them our clearly marked packages on the wall. The husband tells me that I only have our information sheets and the wall signs "for show" and that I "owed" him the rest of the work because that's what I promised his wife and it was my mistake and I should make good on it. This guy must have thought I was really stupid or something. Funny thing is it would have only taken 10 minutes to shampoo his motor and I would have thrown it in for free if he had just shut up and stopped being such an A-hole liar just to get rid of him. This went on for over 10 minutes until I was thoroughly worked up and then he pushed me over the edge and pointed to me and told his children that I was "stealing Daddy's money". I guess my guys could hear me yelling at him at the other end of the shop after that. Not the way I wanted that situation to end but sometimes you need to put a stop to people's nonsense. He was going to try and jump in the van and leave except we had already locked all the bay doors so he was trapped. Turned out he paid and left and was never seen or heard from again. True story........
 
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