hard and soft paint/CC.question

[pampos]

I am wondering and confused about the deeper than swirls scratches...



Why a hard paint or CC get scratched so deeply just from a car wash or something ''mild''??



Why is too hard (at least for me) to remove deeper scratches from soft paints or CC??



Theory says that a hard paint/CC will not scratched or swirled easily as a soft paint/CC.

Also it says that is easier to repair a soft paint/cc than a hard paint/cc..

Is that only for light swirl marks or for heavier damage too??



Yesterday i was detailing an Alfa Romeo 156 black single stage paint.



the paint was in a really bad condition ( i will post the process and the results later), and the paint was really soft,maybe softer than my Honda's CC.The swirls where gone very very easily with a finishing polish but the deeper scratches needed 7-8 passes with UDM to gone, using a cutting pad and Menzerna intensive polish.Some of them where deep enough to catch my nail so i can see that they where to deep to be removed,but other scratches where not so deep but they where very difficult to be removed.

Is it something wrong with my process??

Is it because i am using a DA polisher instead of rotary?

Thanks

 

[Accumulator]

I am wondering and confused about the deeper than swirls scratches...



Why a hard paint or CC get scratched so deeply just from a car wash or something ''mild''??

Becauase even very hard automotive paint isn't nearly as (literally) hard a rock and the "regular dirt and dust" that gets on cars often contains things like tiny bits of rocks.

Why is too hard (at least for me) to remove deeper scratches from soft paints or CC??

Because you're probably dealing with marring that's more serious than you realize and you're probably using methods that are more *gentle* than you realize.

Theory says that a hard paint/CC will not scratched or swirled easily as a soft paint/CC.

This is absolutely true IME. But it's a *relative* difference.

Also it says that is easier to repair a soft paint/cc than a hard paint/cc..

Is that only for light swirl marks or for heavier damage too??

Also true as it's easier to remove soft paint than hard paint. The exception is when the paint is *so* soft that it's almost impossible to do anything without marring it.



Yesterday i was detailing an Alfa Romeo 156 black single stage paint..The swirls where gone very very easily with a finishing polish but the deeper scratches needed 7-8 passes with UDM to gone, using a cutting pad and Menzerna intensive polish.Some of them where deep enough to catch my nail so i can see that they where to deep to be removed,but other scratches where not so deep but they where very difficult to be removed.

Is it something wrong with my process??

Is it because i am using a DA polisher instead of rotary?

[/QUOTE]



Noting that most ss black is *VERY* soft... The Menzerna IP, with a foam cutting pad (I'm guessing the size was ~6") isn't as aggressive as you might think.



If you used a 3.5" PFW pad with the right product you woulda done about as much correction as is safe with only about two passes.



And 7-8 passes with a PC/UDM isn't all that much work IMO when you're using a combo like that...I've spent literally *hours* working a single panel with a PC (before I wised up ).

 

[pampos]

First of all i would like to thank you.. :bigups

it is a great answer but i still have some questions...

When you said that it is difficult to remove marring do you mean the marks of the aggressive combo??

When you said that the combo i used it was too mild which is the most aggressive combo do you suggest me to use with my UDM??

what are the PFW pads?? (sorry for my acknowledge)



Yes it was that car that you saw at the C&B.

According the before pictures what process would you follow to repair it with a DA polisher??

Thanks once again :bigups

 

[Accumulator]

When you said that it is difficult to remove marring do you mean the marks of the aggressive combo??

Generally, no, I mean the scratches/etc. that're already there. The marks from aggressive correction should be easy to get out with a milder combo.

When you said that the combo i used it was too mild which is the most aggressive combo do you suggest me to use with my UDM??

what are the PFW pads?? (sorry for my acknowledge)

PFW= LC brand Purple Foamed Wool. The small ones (3.5") work OK via DA and when used with 1Z Intensive Paste/Pasta Intensiv it's a very aggressive combo.

Yes it was that car that you saw at the C&B.

According the before pictures what process would you follow to repair it with a DA polisher??

I'd go over it once with the PFW/1Z Intensive and then use the Intensive with milder foam pads and then I'd finish polish with something fairly mild.. One or maybe two passes with the PFW would be all I'd want to do with such an aggressive combo on black ss because things could get *too* aggressive and it might happen suddenly.



That concern about things happening suddenly is why I think your approach was perfectly OK even if it did take a long time.

 

[pampos]

Thanks once again...i will try to get some PFW pads..is it ok to use them with Menz compound??this is very aggressive too.. 10/10 i think.

 

[Accumulator]

i will try to get some PFW pads..is it ok to use them with Menz compound??this is very aggressive too..

I don't know :nixweiss The big thing about the 1Z Intensive is how easily it breaks down, so a process that'll work with *it* might not work with some seemingly similar different product.





And I sure wouldn't want any worse hazing than the PFW left with the 1Z intensive, it's sorta scary looking until you get used to seeing it.

 

[pampos]

I don't know :nixweiss The big thing about the 1Z Intensive is how easily it breaks down, so a process that'll work with *it* might not work with some seemingly similar different product.





And I sure wouldn't want any worse hazing than the PFW left with the 1Z intensive, it's sorta scary looking until you get used to seeing it.

Thanks once again Accumulator...

Your help is valuable for me...i will get as soon as possible some of those pads..i guess i have to buy the small plate and the adapter wright??i have a 3.5'' plate but i guess i have to buy something smaller.

 

[Accumulator]

..i will get as soon as possible some of those pads..i guess i have to buy the small plate and the adapter wright??i have a 3.5'' plate but i guess i have to buy something smaller.

I *think* you'll need a slightly smaller plate. I have a few "small" plates that seem small when used with 4" pads, but only one of those was small enough to work with the 3.5" PFW pads. The one that I'm using (sorry, forget where/when I bought it) is yellow rubber, somewhat flexible, and is approx. 3 3/8" in diameter.



When you find a LC distributor who has the 3.5" PFW pads, I'd ask *him* about an appropriate backing plate.

 

[pampos]

I *think* you'll need a slightly smaller plate. I have a few "small" plates that seem small when used with 4" pads, but only one of those was small enough to work with the 3.5" PFW pads. The one that I'm using (sorry, forget where/when I bought it) is yellow rubber, somewhat flexible, and is approx. 3 3/8" in diameter.



When you find a LC distributor who has the 3.5" PFW pads, I'd ask *him* about an appropriate backing plate.

Thanks again :thx

i placed an order on autogeek and i just waiting the answer about the shipping cost now : )



This is the order.Can you tell me if it is OK??



1 LC-78-22550 - 5.5 inch Orange CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Fo 5.99

1 LC-78-62550 - 5.5 inch White CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Foa 5.99

1 LC-78-32550 - 5.5 inch Green CCS Smart Padsâ„¢ DA Profes 5.99

1 LC-78-72550 - 5.5 inch Gray CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Foam 5.99

1 LC-78-92550 - 5.5 inch Blue CCS Smart Padsâ„¢ DA Profess 5.99

1 LC-78-12550 - 5.5 inch Red CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Foam 5.99

3 OPT-900 - Optimum No Rinse Wash & Shine 47.97

1 LC-58-4235 - Lake Country Foamed Wool 3.5 inch Buffing 4.99

1 LC-46-230DA - D.A Adapter 5/8'' X 11 4.99

1 LC-76-093 - 2-3/4 Hook & Loop Backing Plate 7.99

1 LC-78-52550 - 5.5 inch Yellow CCS Smart Pads DA Foam P 5.99

 

[Bert]

Thanks again :thx

i placed an order on autogeek and i just waiting the answer about the shipping cost now : )



This is the order.Can you tell me if it is OK??



1 LC-78-22550 - 5.5 inch Orange CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Fo 5.99

1 LC-78-62550 - 5.5 inch White CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Foa 5.99

1 LC-78-32550 - 5.5 inch Green CCS Smart Padsâ„¢ DA Profes 5.99

1 LC-78-72550 - 5.5 inch Gray CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Foam 5.99

1 LC-78-92550 - 5.5 inch Blue CCS Smart Padsâ„¢ DA Profess 5.99

1 LC-78-12550 - 5.5 inch Red CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Foam 5.99

3 OPT-900 - Optimum No Rinse Wash & Shine 47.97

1 LC-58-4235 - Lake Country Foamed Wool 3.5 inch Buffing 4.99

1 LC-46-230DA - D.A Adapter 5/8'' X 11 4.99

1 LC-76-093 - 2-3/4 Hook & Loop Backing Plate 7.99

1 LC-78-52550 - 5.5 inch Yellow CCS Smart Pads DA Foam P 5.99

Not sure you need that many different pads. I will wait to see if others agree.

 

[Bert]

Thanks again :thx

i placed an order on autogeek and i just waiting the answer about the shipping cost now : )



This is the order.Can you tell me if it is OK??



1 LC-78-22550 - 5.5 inch Orange CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Fo 5.99

1 LC-78-62550 - 5.5 inch White CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Foa 5.99

1 LC-78-32550 - 5.5 inch Green CCS Smart Padsâ„¢ DA Profes 5.99

1 LC-78-72550 - 5.5 inch Gray CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Foam 5.99

1 LC-78-92550 - 5.5 inch Blue CCS Smart Padsâ„¢ DA Profess 5.99

1 LC-78-12550 - 5.5 inch Red CCS Smart Pads DA Pro Foam 5.99

3 OPT-900 - Optimum No Rinse Wash & Shine 47.97

1 LC-58-4235 - Lake Country Foamed Wool 3.5 inch Buffing 4.99

1 LC-46-230DA - D.A Adapter 5/8'' X 11 4.99

1 LC-76-093 - 2-3/4 Hook & Loop Backing Plate 7.99

1 LC-78-52550 - 5.5 inch Yellow CCS Smart Pads DA Foam P 5.99

Are you buying three quarts of ONR? If so, why not get a gallon? You will get 33% more for about the same money.

 

[pampos]

Not sure you need that many different pads. I will wait to see if others agree.

which of them do you suggest NOT to buy??

 

[pampos]

Are you buying three quarts of ONR? If so, why not get a gallon? You will get 33% more for about the same money.

only the 1 is for me.the other 2 it is for 2 friends

 

[Envious Eric]

so buy a gallon and save some money, have more left over for you, and divide up the other half gallon to them in bottles you purchased...that way you end up with 1/2 gallon instead of 1/4 gallon....for the same price, minus the couple bucks on 32oz bottles for your friends...

 

[pampos]

so buy a gallon and save some money, have more left over for you, and divide up the other half gallon to them in bottles you purchased...that way you end up with 1/2 gallon instead of 1/4 gallon....for the same price, minus the couple bucks on 32oz bottles for your friends...

Maybe it will come the same because of the shipping cost to Cyprus...Heavier product higher cost

 

[Bert]

which of them do you suggest NOT to buy??

That really depends on what you are going to be using them for. I often times think I could get away with just 2 oranges (or LC PWF now), two whites, and two grays. Since I apply sealants and glazes by hand, I have never felt the need for blues and reds which are very very similar.

 

[pampos]

That really depends on what you are going to be using them for. I often times think I could get away with just 2 oranges (or LC PWF now), two whites, and two grays. Since I apply sealants and glazes by hand, I have never felt the need for blues and reds which are very very similar.

Thanks for that..i guess i will go with those that you said... :2thumbs:

 

[jdmer]

Accumulator,

Do you have any experience with 1z's Extra Paint Cleaner in the yellow can vs. the Intensive polish? I've got some scratches and heavy swirls that I'd like to remove. Curious if you have any input as far as aggressiveness between the two compounds and pad combos. Thanks.



jd

Generally, no, I mean the scratches/etc. that're already there. The marks from aggressive correction should be easy to get out with a milder combo.







PFW= LC brand Purple Foamed Wool. The small ones (3.5") work OK via DA and when used with 1Z Intensive Paste/Pasta Intensiv it's a very aggressive combo.







I'd go over it once with the PFW/1Z Intensive and then use the Intensive with milder foam pads and then I'd finish polish with something fairly mild.. One or maybe two passes with the PFW would be all I'd want to do with such an aggressive combo on black ss because things could get *too* aggressive and it might happen suddenly.



That concern about things happening suddenly is why I think your approach was perfectly OK even if it did take a long time.

 

[Accumulator]

Accumulator,

Do you have any experience with 1z's Extra Paint Cleaner in the yellow can vs. the Intensive polish? I've got some scratches and heavy swirls that I'd like to remove. Curious if you have any input as far as aggressiveness between the two compounds and pad combos. Thanks.



jd

That's what I used for aggressive by-hand work before my recent purchase of the 1Z Intensive Paste.



Comparing the two, the Extra (AKA "Ultra") is quite a bit less aggressive, in part because of its wax content but also by virtue of milder abrasives. I was surprised at how much more aggressive the Intensive is because the Extra also has that gritty "liquid sandpaper" feel to it.



The Extra works fine but you really need to clean off the wax it leaves behind so you can see what's really going on. The wax also loads up pads more. It's safer for by-hand use, the milder abrasives are *infinitely* less likely to leave nasty "tracer scratches" if you get a little heavy-handed with the initial application. But it'll take more passes.



Note that the nasty-feeling (and sounding!) abrasives break down pretty fast, so you can end up doing a lot of passes.



Terry for aggressive by-hand use, aggressive foam for machine use (orange seems to work better than the more porous yellow IME). By the time you think about switching to a milder pad it'll be time to also switch to a milder product.



These days I use the Extra for things like suspension pieces (top with Collinite for a quick one-step that looks OK for that sort of thing) and the Intesive Paste for regular paint. If only buying one, I'd get the Intensive Paste.

 

[jdmer]

Ah, I thinks me gets it. Thanks, that helps.



Sounds like Intensive is what I need. Do you follow with High Gloss then an LSP? I'll be using a PC to apply.



One more question. I've been scouring this site and keep reading that 1z products are somewhat easy to use. So, even I might have a good shot at using them well. Is their "Pro Line" as easy to use as the Yellow/Green/Red canned products? thanks.