guru reports

Guru report at least give you a broad based opinion of waxes in all price categories. It is as good as it gets from a independent source. Especially for 8 bucks the cost of a cheap can of wax
 
dternst said:
With all due respect, I'd suggest that if you don't like the way things are done... do it yourself. Develop your own test plan, collect the samples, and perform your own test.



Guru Reports, like the information shared here at Autopia, is meant only as a guideline. The methods provided on Autopia aren't always the most scientific either, but you take it for what it's worth and move on. You can be in a flock but don't always have to follow the flock. Know what I mean...
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I'm sorry if I offended any of you by having my own opinion, but with all due respect, I retired from this thread...SO YOU CAN STOP BASHING ME NOW.
 
I have thought about buying the package of all three reports, but have held off due to concerns about newer products (which I mostly use) not being listed. It is encouraging to hear that an updated version may soon be available.



There is no substitute for trying a product yourself; a tool like this may help to choose what product(s) to try next though.



To be honest most of the boutique products I have tried have given good results...it is like deciding between the prime rib, NY strip and filet mignon...do I use Klasse, Poorboy's, Pinnacle or 4* this time???
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I'm sorry if I offended any of you by having my own opinion, but with all due respect, I retired from this thread...SO YOU CAN STOP BASHING ME NOW.
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Setec, I think you're being a little sensitive. The intent was not to "bash you", just to state a fact.
 
Actually I think it would be a better statement to say that guru needs to encorporate more products, especially synthetic ones, rather than say they are out of date, since the publication date was 2002, and that wasn't that long ago. The funny thing is that they tested Zaino pre ZFX, so that will be interesting in their next publication. They also didn't include many products that were available but they didn't consider. And some good products that came out since 2002. Does anyone know how to contact the Guru and suggest some products to make sure they end up in the test. I'll start a thread in university, and everyone who has a favorite wax/sealant should chime in and represent, maybe we can figure out a way for the Guru to get this information.
 
dternst said:
The purpose of the report was to take the product out of the lab and test in real world environment and report the results in a manner everyone could understand. Steve has explained this over and over again. Steve also states that Guru Reports is not a bible but only a guideline.



I can see why Steve is tired of explaining himself and the testing method over, and over, and over, and over...
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If you are saying the intent was to be less scientific and more "real world", why would you need to get up-in-arms when someone points out it wasn't very scientific?



Take the report for what it is. I think Setec was just pointing out what it is to him in light of comments like:

Burlyq said:
The reason I like Guru testing is because you know they were unbiased and they know how to test waxes. They have tested these newer fad sealants and they still aren't as durable as Zaino.
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To me, that's not taking it for what it is, that's taking it for some kind of gospel. *We* know they know how to test waxes?? Anyway, it's fine if it's your gospel or if it's not. To each his own. But no need to jump on Setec.



dternst said:
With all due respect, I'd suggest that if you don't like the way things are done... do it yourself. Develop your own test plan, collect the samples, and perform your own test. Plain and simple.
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I suspect most of us here do our own tests. They may be totally informal or totally rigidly controlled. But what's that have to do with anything? If you used a product that you didn't like, do you feel it's appropriate to express it here at Autopia? Or would you say one should just develop their own wax/polish/whatever instead of pointing out what they don't like about an existing product? Setec didn't like the Guru reports. He's entitled to that opinion even without publishing his own competing magazine.
 
"To me, that's not taking it for what it is, that's taking it for some kind of gospel. *We* know they know how to test waxes?? Anyway, it's fine if it's your gospel or if it's not. To each his own. But no need to jump on Setec."



Aurora, since you are a new moderator I would like to know exactly what you think is me jumpin down Setec so I can avoid this is the future, or get clarification from the mayor.
 
I didn't think you were jumping on Setec. And I'm not a new moderator. :)



I do think making a statement like "you know they were unbiased and they know how to test waxes" isn't the best way to phrase something. You're trying to speak for others with that statement. I think Setec was simply addressing that.
 
Aurora40 said:
I do think making a statement like "you know they were unbiased and they know how to test waxes" isn't the best way to phrase something. You're trying to speak for others with that statement. I think Setec was simply addressing that.
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Actually, you are half right, I'm not sure they are unbiased because I don't know them, so maybe I mis-spoke. But, I've examined their techniques and I have concoured that they do know how to test wax. I asked for clarification because you have to state a case if your going to criticize a publication if you want to be taken serious. let me say that I would believe they have less chance of being unbiased then anything I hear here. They have the possibilty of facing lawsuits if they mis-represent something. And when I have to hear that pro's here have a ten top reasons I don't want to try the top rated product list, I laugh.



I'm not trying to speak for anyone and I think all my posts on this thread show that. Yes I like Zaino, but the only link I put in was one that sold p21s and klasse. And the only bold print I had was that there are other products good for other tasks. The reason I like Zaino so much is because I specialize in new cars, if I specialized in old ones, I probably would use something else, and often do when I get one. My business card even states, specializes in new car sealants. I'm getting old and the new cars are much easier for me to detail. But it's a guarantee that if anyone says they like Zaino, the thread will take a hater tone regardless. The Guru Tests exist, and for some reason they are a threat to many people. I started another thread about Guru to let people represent a product they use and the whole thread was complaining. The only thing that would make any of you happy is that if another test was published that put your favorite product on top, lets keep it real.
 
Burlyq said:
Actually, you are half right, I'm not sure they are unbiased because I don't know them, so maybe I mis-spoke. But, I've examined their techniques and I have concoured that they do know how to test wax. I asked for clarification because you have to state a case if your going to criticize a publication if you want to be taken serious. let me say that I would believe they have less chance of being unbiased then anything I hear here. They have the possibilty of facing lawsuits if they mis-represent something. And when I have to hear that pro's here have a ten top reasons I don't want to try the top rated product list, I laugh.
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I think you are responding to something I didn't say. What I said is Setec is entitled to his opinion on the report. He doesn't like it. Sure, ask him why in a tactful appropriate way. I never criticized the publication.



As far as lawsuits, what's the point of saying that? Most anyone has a possibility of facing a lawsuit if they misrepresent something. That doesn't mean misrepresentations never happen. I'm not saying the guru report represent or misrepresent anything. Just that you aren't making a good argument in my opinion.



Burlyq said:
I'm not trying to speak for anyone and I think all my posts on this thread show that. Yes I like Zaino, but the only link I put in was one that sold p21s and klasse. And the only bold print I had was that there are other products good for other tasks. The reason I like Zaino so much is because I specialize in new cars, if I specialized in old ones, I probably would use something else, and often do when I get one. My business card even states, specializes in new car sealants. I'm getting old and the new cars are much easier for me to detail. But it's a guarantee that if anyone says they like Zaino, the thread will take a hater tone regardless. The Guru Tests exist, and for some reason they are a threat to many people. I started another thread about Guru to let people represent a product they use and the whole thread was complaining. The only thing that would make any of you happy is that if another test was published that put your favorite product on top, lets keep it real.
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You WERE trying to speak for people. Maybe you didn't realize it or intend to. You said "you know they were unbiased and they know how to test waxes.". The "You" refers to us, the readers. It can't refer to you the writer. You don't call yourself "You" do you?



I also don't see how this thread turned into a Zaino hater thread. I'm not sure Setec even mentioned Zaino.



And way to categorize anyone who didn't like the report as "threatened" by it. I guess there are only two positions on it due to its incredible awesomeness. Either you love and embrace it and do everything it commands, or you are just terrified by it and do everything to bring it down... Give me a break. Someone can just not like it without being a closet "hater".



I don't see anyone bashing anything here. Just someone voicing their opinion in a polite way. :nixweiss
 
This is a good thread guys....



Let's try and respect others opinions a bit. It's easy to pick on any test, as there are limitations.
 
Just FYI, Burlyq, when the first testing was done, it was all put simply on an internet site, free of charge. Zaino did not do well (I guess the prep was done wrong) and because of that, Steve was receiving hate mail and if I remember right, he even received death threats. When it comes to Zaino, on some boards, if you say you don't like it, you are held up to ridicule. The zealotry goes both ways with Zaino for some reason. Those who really love it, really love it and those who hate it, really hate it. After using it, I think it is a good product and if you only apply a single layer, it is as easy to use as anything else.
 
Scottwax said:
Just FYI, Burlyq, when the first testing was done, it was all put simply on an internet site, free of charge. Zaino did not do well (I guess the prep was done wrong) and because of that, Steve was receiving hate mail and if I remember right, he even received death threats. When it comes to Zaino, on some boards, if you say you don't like it, you are held up to ridicule. The zealotry goes both ways with Zaino for some reason. Those who really love it, really love it and those who hate it, really hate it. After using it, I think it is a good product and if you only apply a single layer, it is as easy to use as anything else.
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I realize they made a mistake when they first applied Zaino because they admitted it in the publication, and said it was their own fault. If I said I didn't like your favorite LSP you wouldn't hold me up to ridicle, or at least ask why? Funny thing having that name thrown around Zealot, if you like Zaino you are simply a Zealot. I have said I like many sealants/waxes but only one true polish (menzerna) but never have I been called a menzerna Zealot.



You are a pro who has a lot of disrespect of Zaino and Zaino users, it's documented. It was your top seven reasons you'll never try Zaino that was one of the first posts I've read on this site, so maybe we both are part of the problem. I see that someone sent you a sample and you used it, and wrote a fair review. Yet you threw in a recent post is was harder to use w/o clarifying that you meant multiple coats of Zaino compared to one of any other, was that fair?



I've tried to keep an open mind and I've tried more products last year than ever before. But there's a group of you 4*- poorboys crew that always through negativity at Zaino posts. But instead of having a top 7 reason I don't try those products, I've tried many of them at my cost. I've even added Natty's to my bag of tricks. I have pledged myself in 2005 to not knock anybody's favorite choices, because it gets nowhere. I will not however remain quiet when people knock mine, that's asking too much. If anyone is going to call me a zealot of something, let it be a mothers mag polish zealot or a menzerna polish zealot because those are the only two products that I use exclusively for their particular tasks.
 
Burlyq said:
I realize they made a mistake when they first applied Zaino because they admitted it in the publication, and said it was their own fault. If I said I didn't like your favorite LSP you wouldn't hold me up to ridicle, or at least ask why? Funny thing having that name thrown around Zealot, if you like Zaino you are simply a Zealot. I have said I like many sealants/waxes but only one true polish (menzerna) but never have I been called a menzerna Zealot.
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You've obviously never met Metallic Mike or been to some of the F-body forums.



You are completely missing the point anyway. I am not saying all Zaino users are zealots but there are some who come across like Amway salesmen.



You are a pro who has a lot of disrespect of Zaino and Zaino users, it's documented. It was your top seven reasons you'll never try Zaino that was one of the first posts I've read on this site, so maybe we both are part of the problem.
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I am not the one who started a thread like that. I may have mentioned the things I didn't like about Zaino, like the dawn wash, multiple steps, the layering fetish but those are valid concerns I have had. The "I am 15 hours into my first Zaino detail and only halfway done" threads can really turn people off. Who seriously wants to spend 30 hours waxing their car (and yes, that was an actual thread on Autopia). I have never said Zaino is a bad product, is not durable or that anyone shouldn't use it. My problem has been mainly the dawn wash and the attitude of some of the users. I am not the only one, either.



that someone sent you a sample and you used it, and wrote a fair review. Yet you threw in a recent post is was harder to use w/o clarifying that you meant multiple coats of Zaino compared to one of any other, was that fair?
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How many people only apply a single layer of Zaino when they first use it? When used as most people apply Zaino, you are talking 2 to 3 layers in one detailing session. I think you may be talking about something completely out of context anyway. The fact does remain though that when most people use Zaino for the first time, they do multiple layers and you are supposed to use Z-6 in between each layer. If you use polished with oils, you need to wash the vehicle prior to applying Zaino. The first application is going to be more involved and take more time than most other products. That isn't a knock, but a fact of life. Zaino lovers don't care about the time factor anyway so it isn't even an issue for them.



to keep an open mind and I've tried more products last year than ever before. But there's a group of you 4*- poorboys crew that always through negativity at Zaino posts. But instead of having a top 7 reason I don't try those products, I've tried many of them at my cost. I've even added Natty's to my bag of tricks. I have pledged myself in 2005 to not knock anybody's favorite choices, because it gets nowhere. I will not however remain quiet when people knock mine, that's asking too much.
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When have I specifically knocked your choice of Zaino? When have I ever said you shouldn't use it? When have I ever said Zaino is crap?



BTW, I am part of the Meguiars/Clearkote crew. :rolleyes:



You've had a chip on your shoulder about Zaino ever since you have been here, Burlyq. I don't know why. If you are happy with it, more power to you. It is a good product. I'm not the one going around saying it sucks though.
 
mtodde said:
Is there a detailing forum where Zaino discussion is banned? I'd pay to join it. :p
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TW85 HHI said:
:rofl I would too! Zaino users seem like a cult at times.
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No reason for anyone on this site who happens to like Zaino to have a chip that I can think of.



Scottwax said:
I don't use it for several reasons.



1. Zaino Zealots (I use another term for Zealot though ;) ) have really turned me off to it. They can't just say they like it and Zaino works for them, no! They have to say all other products suck and you are an idiot for using something else.
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LOL, people like something, good reason to not try it. I really don't care for the way the poorboy's/UPP crowd conduct themselves either, but I buy and try those products because I care more about finding good products than I do about about hating on UPP Zealots. If I have too see another, which UPP products are your favorite threads I'm gonna hurl. And now there's a UPP poll, whick ones do you use regurlarly, lol, you guys are walking commercials.

Ah very nice! That post about the UPP poll was moderated away, thank you Autopia. Hopefully all the walking commercial posts like what's you favorite product in "line x" will suffer the same destiny as that post. This place gets better day by day.





http://autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39395&highlight=reasons+I+wont+try+Zaino
 
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