Growing opportunity wet sanding?

So you don't tell them that what your doing to their car is detrimental to it's longevity? That's not professional at all. When someone does opt for that expensive plastic surgery they are told of the risks as a true professional should. This sounds to me like a way to cheapen the "profession."
 
SpoiledMan said:
So you don't tell them that what your doing to their car is detrimental to it's longevity? That's not professional at all. When someone does opt for that expensive plastic surgery they are told of the risks as a true professional should. This sounds to me like a way to cheapen the "profession."
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Let me clear this up for you:



If you are a doctor and you force a woman with a pubic goatee to get a face lift just so you can make money, you are an unethical person.



If you are a professional detailer, you know what cars and what customers will benefit from wet sanding. You tell them, just like a lawyer gives advice, so do you.



If you tell everyone driving a 1988 Hyundai or a Kia that walks in the door they need wet sanding for $600, you shouldnt be doing it, and you probablly wouldnt try. You, as a professional, know what customers and what cars will benefit form this service.
 
jsatek said:
Let me clear this up for you:



If you are a doctor and you force a woman with a pubic goatee to get a face lift just so you can make money, you are an unethical person.



If you are a professional detailer, you know what cars and what customers will benefit from wet sanding. You tell them, just like a lawyer gives advice, so do you.



If you tell everyone driving a 1988 Hyundai or a Kia that walks in the door they need wet sanding for $600, you shouldnt be doing it, and you probablly wouldnt try. You, as a professional, know what customers and what cars will benefit form this service.
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Your statement has NOTHING to do with educating the customer about the good and bad about what you're going to do to their car. You are advised by your doctor before you go under the knife that you may not come back. Being "professional" and not educating the customer is not ethical! Have you ever worked under a code of ethics? I have.
 
We have always believed in the product or service that we sell. If we promoted a wet sanding / detailing service on OEM auto’s, it would be to my benefit to sell it. If I sell it and we have unhappy customers then we wont be in business very long. Does anyone believe if that happens the dealerships will keep sending us clients?



I shouldn’t of compared Doctors and Detailers. LOL.............
 
SpoiledMan said:
Your statement has NOTHING to do with educating the customer about the good and bad about what you're going to do to their car. You are advised by your doctor before you go under the knife that you may not come back. Being "professional" and not educating the customer is not ethical! Have you ever worked under a code of ethics? I have.
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Sorry - no time for ethics, I'm rich.
 
jsatek said:
Sorry - no time for ethics, I'm rich.
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I'd try to explain this again, but it will never add any value to my life. I dont think it could be any clearer. Think what you want, if someone asks a professional an opinion, it is the professionals obligation to answer properly.



Good luck on the reading comprehension and economics classes!
 
No paint manufacturer or product manufacturer that I have ever spoken to or articles from them which I have read on this subject have ever suggested OEM paints to be wetsanded.



I have never heard anyone from 3M or Meguiars suggest a new car be wetsanded just because it has orange peel. They make sanding papers first for the bodyshops which are sanding re-paints not for detailers to knock down orange peel. They make papers for professional detailers to remove runs, sags, dust nibs and yes orange peel, on re-paints, not OEM paints.



I have no idea why the sudden fascination with wetsanding among people....I mean it's time consuming, there is no room for error, it's messy and it's not fun...make a mistake and then the $600 you are getting won't be delivered to you but instead you'll have to pay out $600 or more to a body shop for a re-paint, the car won't ever be the same, it decreases in value and good luck trying to convince the owner you can detail it for them.



The new ceramiclears have an even lower tolerence when it comes to error as their clears are thinner. My advice is don't do it unless you warn the client of all the risks and the risks surely outweigh the benefits.



Anthony
 
Anthony Orosco said:
No paint manufacturer or product manufacturer that I have ever spoken to or articles from them which I have read on this subject have ever suggested OEM paints to be wetsanded.



I have never heard anyone from 3M or Meguiars suggest a new car be wetsanded just because it has orange peel. They make sanding papers first for the bodyshops which are sanding re-paints not for detailers to knock down orange peel. They make papers for professional detailers to remove runs, sags, dust nibs and yes orange peel, on re-paints, not OEM paints.



I have no idea why the sudden fascination with wetsanding among people....I mean it's time consuming, there is no room for error, it's messy and it's not fun...make a mistake and then the $600 you are getting won't be delivered to you but instead you'll have to pay out $600 or more to a body shop for a re-paint, the car won't ever be the same, it decreases in value and good luck trying to convince the owner you can detail it for them.



The new ceramiclears have an even lower tolerence when it comes to error as their clears are thinner. My advice is don't do it unless you warn the client of all the risks and the risks surely outweigh the benefits.



Anthony
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That’s a fair assessment. How can we safely and “cost effectively� remove the orange peel from OEM paint? What is ceramiclears?
 
doged said:
That’s a fair assessment. How can we safely and “cost effectively� remove the orange peel from OEM paint? What is ceramiclears?
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we can't. You either wetsand and say screw it to the risks or you repaint, hope it comes out great, and knock some resale value off the car.
 
Anthony Orosco said:
...make a mistake and then the $600 you are getting won't be delivered to you but instead you'll have to pay out $600 or more to a body shop for a re-paint, the car won't ever be the same, it decreases in value and good luck trying to convince the owner you can detail it for them.



Anthony
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...and you'll be paying for a comparable rental while your clients car is in the body shop. Too much risk for the money.
 
I'm in the same boat with Anthony. Modern clears are 1.5 to 2 mils thick. Once you get them under 1 mil, you lose most of the UV protection. Since you cannot be sure of the thickness of the clear (paint thickness guages measure total paint thickness), you can only safely remove .4 mil (leaving .1 mil for future necessary paint correction) of paint with the wetsand, cut and buff. If the car has minimal orange peel, you can probably get away with it. Most cars I see have such bad orange peel you cannot safely eliminate it and not many people are going to drop up to $1000 to still have orange peel and .1 mil margin of safety in their clear coat.



Now, if you can find show car owners who want perfection, then you can probably add it to your list of services offered.
 
The challenge is not a show car, it’s OEM.



(We) need to “discover�an alternative and solve this problem. It needs to be safe and cost effective. I believe a solution and method exist, we just haven’t found it yet. Business owners have the experience and enthusiast have the time? Do you detailing business owners understand how this will become a benefit?
 
Frankly.....no, not really.



You won't be able to do anything about orange peel unless you do it at the factory level. They aren't going to apply MORE clear so the detailing industry can then come and wetsand cars.



In all my years of detailing I have only had a handful of people, maybe 10, ask me to wetsand their entire car to get rid of orange peel. It's just not a major concern with them. They would rather have a nice clean car that's well maintained and keeps the value of the car up.



There is nothing that can be done about orange peel in cars unless you go in and totally re-vamp the painting systems.



Anthony
 
Anthony Orosco said:
Frankly.....no, not really.



You won't be able to do anything about orange peel unless you do it at the factory level. They aren't going to apply MORE clear so the detailing industry can then come and wetsand cars.



In all my years of detailing I have only had a handful of people, maybe 10, ask me to wetsand their entire car to get rid of orange peel. It's just not a major concern with them. They would rather have a nice clean car that's well maintained and keeps the value of the car up.



There is nothing that can be done about orange peel in cars unless you go in and totally re-vamp the painting systems.



Anthony
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Please don’t take this as a negative comint.

I’m not debating your answer but if you think your defeated, then your defeated.

You said, “they asked�? What if you asked?
 
You want to ask them to do something to their car that you KNOW is not good for the long term? Somebody ends up with that problem of failing paint even if it's not them. I wouldn't hinge my business on it.
 
SpoiledMan said:
You want to ask them to do something to their car that you KNOW is not good for the long term? Somebody ends up with that problem of failing paint even if it's not them. I wouldn't hinge my business on it.
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Please read this again!!! I guess (you) meaning (me) is exploring safe and cost effective solution. I’m not for or against wet sanding OEM paint.

(We) need to “discover�an alternative and solve this problem. It needs to be safe and cost effective. I believe a solution and method exist, we just haven’t found it yet. Business owners have the experience and enthusiast have the time? Do you detailing business owners understand how this will become a benefit?
 
doged said:
Please don’t take this as a negative comint.

I’m not debating your answer but if you think your defeated, then your defeated.

You said, “they asked�? What if you asked?
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Nothing negative about your comment, healthy debate is good as it can lead to solutions and knowledge.



I have never recommended wetsanding to a client to rid their car of OP. I have told a few clients that wetsanding can elminate or reduce OP but always inform them of the risk and they almost always then decline wetsanding as an option.



Now a sanded car looks just like glass but is that beauty worth the long term risk?



Anthony
 
The only way to remove orange peel is to remove the "offending" paint. To remove the paint, it takes abrasives of some sort. The end result is still paint removed. To prevent it, you need to start with the OEM.
 
I don’t believe we will discover the answers today but in the near future? I will do some investigating of my own with this “wet sanding� person, and will report back with my personal findings.



Thanks for all your contributions on this subject!!!
 
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