Griot's DA and 6" MF pads??

R

rsunnafrank

New member
Thought I'd try out some Souveran on the TVR...



Did a complete Dawn, Clay (Zaino), HD-Cleanse and then Souveran app.. and the results...? Stunning!!



I have got some pics I have taken, but the lighting is poor. You can still see the reflections off the paint well though. I'll post them now if anyone's interested, otherwise i'll get some pics in the daylight tomorrow...





-andy-
 
Thought I'd post these pics anyway - but I will get some better ones in daylight. Still think these look pretty good... :)

Sorry they are a bit dark though :(


0400101562_001P.jpg




-andy-
 
Considering Griot's DA is one of the more powerful DA's on the market, do you think it has enough power to spin 6" MF pads and still get effective defect removal in the same amount of time as a 5.5" MF pad?
 
I guess it depends on how you look at it. I'd think the GG DA with 6.5" pads would be at least as effective as a PCXP with 5.5" pads. But the same GG with 5.5" pads will still be a bit more effective.
 
I would always use a 5.5" pad. However, I have read many a thread here, written by top detailers that if you are using Surbufs, the 6.5" seem to be more effective. I know that you are talking about the MF disks, but they are sort of similar.
 
bmw5541 said:
I would always use a 5.5" pad. However, I have read many a thread here, written by top detailers that if you are using Surbufs, the 6.5" seem to be more effective. I know that you are talking about the MF disks, but they are sort of similar.
Click to expand...

Similar, yes. But the MF pads require a decent amount of pressure, about on par as foam pads, so the bigger sizes will still bog the machines faster. With Surbufs, you don't need nearly the same pressure so you can get away with bigger pads and still be effective. I recall Bryan B stating that he would sometime use 7" Surbufs with a DA machine.
 
Is it more powerful than the others???

I remember reading Kevin Brown's articles about RPM's and OPM's and it made my head spin. I can't remember but for some reason didn't he say it wasn't???

I don't know, I'm dizzy just thinking about it!!! LOL
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
Considering Griot's DA is one of the more powerful DA's on the market, do you think it has enough power to spin 6" MF pads and still get effective defect removal in the same amount of time as a 5.5" MF pad?
Click to expand...

If you were only looking to get effective defect removal in the same amount of time what would even be the motivation of larger pads? After using the 5.5" MFs and comparing 5.5" foam to the 6.5s I had been using I dumped all my larger pads. The little bit of time I may save covering a slightly larger area is offset by more effective correction in less time with the smaller pads.

That said, especially in light of the MFs working most effectively at slower speeds and the superb lubricity of D300, I'm sure the larger MFs would work fine on a GG DA. Write up a review after you give it a whirl. :w00t:

TL
 
My GG is about two years old and has a fixed backing plate. I ordered the 6" Mf disks which should work well given its power over the porter cable DA. I did not feel like ordering another GG DA.
 
While you certainly can use the 6" microfiber discs on the Griot's or any other DA, keep in mind that the system is overall optimized for use at 4800 opm on a DA with the 5" discs. Regardless of how much more power the Griot's tool may have over the Porter Cable 7424, you still want to dial in that 4800 opm setting for max results. If more cut is needed, then you should apply more pressure and/or slow down your arm speed, NOT increase the tool's speed setting. Now, in that regard, the Griot's 6" and Meguiar's G110v2 will both keep pad rotation under more pressure than the 7424 will (or the 7424XP for that matter).

The 6" discs were developed so that those who are tied to either the Flex 3401 or one of the other fixed backing plate 6" tools (Festool, etc) can still make use of this system. The forced rotation movement of the Flex tends to create more haze than a traditional DA does, however.

Where the 6" discs can come in handy on a DA is if you're dealing with delicate paint that is very prone to hazing. You can minimize the haze with the larger discs, especially during the application of D301 in the cases of those super sensitive paints. In fact, in worst case scenarios you can dramatically reduce haze by hand applying D301 on a 6" disc mounted to Meguiar's S6HP Hand Pad.

For routine correction the vast majority of the time, however, your best bet is the 5" disc on a DA at 4800 opm.
 
Bunky said:
I had never heard that the G110v2 was better than the XP.
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Bump. Does anyone agree that the Meg's unit (not involved in representing Meg's - no offense) will not bog down as much as the XP? It should be a simple side by side comparison to prove. Can someone do it?
 
Bunky said:
Bump. Does anyone agree that the Meg's unit (not involved in representing Meg's - no offense) will not bog down as much as the XP? It should be a simple side by side comparison to prove. Can someone do it?
Click to expand...

I sold my XP after trying someone's G110. Compared to the PCXP, the 110 had much better ergonomics, a soft-start feature and a bit more power. The increase in power is noticeable going from one machine to the other back to back, but not as noticeable as the GG's power. The GG is leaps and bounds ahead of the other two.
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
Considering Griot's DA is one of the more powerful DA's on the market, do you think it has enough power to spin 6" MF pads and still get effective defect removal in the same amount of time as a 5.5" MF pad?
Click to expand...

My experience is limited but here are my thoughts:

Given the ample power of the GG DA I don't believe an extra quarter inch on each side of the center of the pad is going to make any difference. I haven't used the MF pads. That said, I use the 6-inch Hydro-Tech pads with my GG and they work perfectly. I would think that pad composition and polish selection are more important for the GG DA than pad size.

A couple of things I believe to be true: DA's correct mainly with orbits, not rotation. The rotational speed of DA machines is somewhat important in that a higher speed distributes the random orbits faster but not in the same way as for rotary machines, which only use rotational speed for correction. In both cases though, the larger the pad the higher the speed at the edge of the pad given the same rotational speed for both size pads.

Best,

Jose
 
Bunky said:
Bump. Does anyone agree that the Meg's unit (not involved in representing Meg's - no offense) will not bog down as much as the XP? It should be a simple side by side comparison to prove. Can someone do it?
Click to expand...

Bunky,

I don't know that I heard one was better than the other, but I remember when the G110 v.2 came out, Kevin Brown gave some explanations as to why the G110 v.2 was more powerful (an not looking at RPM's only).

If I was smarter, I could explain his reasons, but I have NO idea. I'll see if I can find the thread he wrote.
 
Pad size does make a difference, for a number of reasons.

1. There is quite a bit more surface area in play when using the 6-1/4" disc compared to the 5-1/2" disc ... about 29.12% more:

pad-diameter-chart-kb.jpg



Imagine if you dropped machine speed 29.12%, or had 29.12% less random rotation of the backing plate. That would be a big deal. So depending upon what you are trying to accomplish, the increase in surface area may be beneficial or detrimental. It just depends upon the task at hand.

2. When using a maximum speed setting in hopes of creating rapid backing plate rotation, a larger pad will spin at a higher rate of speed for a given RPM, assuming friction doesn't enter into the equation.

If we do not take into consideration the speed of the mechanically driven orbit nor how friction affects backing plate rotation, but instead focus only on overall rotational speed:

A 5-1/2" disc spinning 10 times per second has an outer edge speed of about 9.8 MPH

A 6-1/4" disc spinning 10 times per second has an outer edge speed of about 11.2 MPH.

That's about 14.3% more speed.


3. Considering how friction might affect backing plate rotation:
We would need to know whether "X" amount of weight and pressure placed upon a small area would slow backing plate more than if it was spread over a large area. That would be interesting for sure.

4. Procedure plays a big part in the choice of pads. For example, if you tend to tilt the machine in order to focus applied pressure or machine motion (or polishing energy), then you'd have to tilt the machine more in order to create the same sized footprint upon the paint as a smaller disc would.

In fact, you don't even need to tilt the pad for this dynamic to occur. A panel featuring even a modest curve or bulge would net a similar effect.

Note:

I think that tilt is one of the reasons some guys aren't too keen on using the Flex XC 3401VRG with the Meguiar's Microfiber Discs.

After all, the discs don't use overly squishy foam, so machine motions are transferred through the foam to the microfiber material very efficiently. When the machine is tilted even a little, the concentration of pressure and the machine's forced rotation tries to rotate the pad like a tire, taking the polishing guy along for the ride.

This is why I posted on another forum that Zoh6 give an interface pad a try... stick one between the backing plate and a Microfiber Disc.

The Flex has a relatively large orbit (5/16" diameter orbit) compared to the Festool Rotex RO150FEQ (3/16" diameter orbit) or the Makita BO6040 (7/32" diameter orbit).
 
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