Gotta Love Winter...

I wanted to share some results from a big test done on a lot of winter tires. Mostly in Sweden we have studded winter tires. But the nonstudded winter tires has developed fast the last couple of years. So I would say that all depends on the preference you want from a winter tire. The test is done on dry asphalt and wet asphalt and snow roads and ice roads. And it was done on a big testing facility in northern Finland. They have even a big inside test driving facility which is climate controlled with all the test road conditions available. If the wheather not allows to do the testing outside. They drive VW Golf and switch tires on it and it`s blind tested so they don`t know which winter tires is on the car.

If you want to be safe and in as much control as possible on the worse winter roads which is slippery ice roads. Then get a well known studded winter tire. As there is no compete to winter tires without the studded ones. If you can`t have them or not being able to get them. Here is 3 winter tires that are great. Actually the Continental ContiVikingContact 7 was rated as good on ice roads. This is the first time this kind of winter tires has gotten that rating from this tester. I see Blizzaks have a great knowledge here. It`s gets in 5th place and is a good winter tire. How they reacts and is able to control is good on all roads conditions. It`s a little too good of a grip so when doing fast turning it gets understeered and has problems on wet roads with brake distance is too long. It`s rolling easy so mpg is great and it`s one of the best on dry asphalt roads. Goodyear and Nokian I took with as they are easy drived with good results on all roads. Pirelli Ice Zero FR was one that did very good in some parts and is very fast with good grip. But it behaves more aggressive when going over the edge of what it can do. So needs a very experienced driver to control it. The top three I wrote up is easy to handle and is predictable.

Continental ContiVikingContact 7 score 7,9
Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice 2 score 7,6
Nokian Hakkapelliitan R3 7,4
Bridgestone Blizzaks WS80 7,2

What`s new this year in the studded winter tires is that Michelin is back on the top spot with there new X-Ice North 4. They completly missread the new regulation about how many studds it where the max to have for 5 years ago. And has taken this 5 years to catch up in development and has been sidestepped by other brands. They thought the regulation told to be used around 90 per tire. But it was the sound level that was at the 90 studds that you don`t was to getting over. But know they are back on the top and put the king of studded winter tires Continental IceContact 2 down to second place with 8,5 points to Michelin 8,7 points. And this points is to be compared to the nonstudded winter tires score points.

This is the top 5 studded winter tires

Michelin X-Ice North 4 8,7 points
Continental IceContact 2 8,5
Hancook Winter I Pike RS2 8,4
Nokian Hakkapelliitan 9 8,4
Bridgestone Noranza 001 8,1

Last place for reference
Studded
Cooper Weather-Masters WSC 6,8
Regualar winter tires last place
Linglong Winter Max I 15 6,6

/ Tony
 
SWETM- Are studded tires better on dry/wet (no ice/snow) roads than they used to be? The last time I drove on them they were simply dangerous unless dealing with serious winter weather.


Lonnie- Hey, that was bright and early to be doing your neighbors` drives! Good on you for that...sheesh, you get some real Winter Weather up there.
 
Accumulator said:
SWETM- Are studded tires better on dry/wet (no ice/snow) roads than they used to be? The last time I drove on them they were simply dangerous unless dealing with serious winter weather.
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I remember as a kid seeing the sparks you`d occasionally get when spinning studded tires on dry pavement.

Some cities in the US no longer allow studs due to how bad they tear up the roads. Snow tires are required/encouraged...just minus the studs.
 
Ten states don`t allow any studded tires. 7 states have no restrictions on studded tires. 33 states have restrictions on studded tires either/and/ or seasonally or type of stud (i.e. Rubber ones).
 
Accumulator said:
SWETM- Are studded tires better on dry/wet (no ice/snow) roads than they used to be? The last time I drove on them they were simply dangerous unless dealing with serious winter weather.


Lonnie- Hey, that was bright and early to be doing your neighbors` drives! Good on you for that...sheesh, you get some real Winter Weather up there.
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Absolutely they have developed them to work better on the dry/wet roads too know. The noise is higher of course between them. But it`s impresive that so many more studds per tire is working so good on dry/wet roads too. The last placed Cooper has 84 studds per tire and the above that Goodyear has 130. Then on the top tier has 190 then comes Michelin with whooping 250 on each tires.

The one thing to be carefull with is when temperature is rising. Cause not will it be only wearing faster but the behavior change to bad. And this is for the winter tires with the snowflake on it. The same is it with the other way around if you drive with summer tires and all season tires with the rubber compound build up close to a summer tire on snow roads especially. They gets warm to get better traction and last longer in the summer. But they also want to produce heat in the cold weather too. Driving on snow roads the snow can be that it`s getting warmer and build up in the wheel wells. And if you drive a little longer it can build up so much that the springs can not move. This can end in a disaster since the traction is almost completly gone when this happens. I did this once with the S4 I had. It was not fun to rescue the slides I got from only drive in 30mph. Had to throttle it up to steer it up. Then slowly lessen the throttle until I was almost standing still. It has happened once more with my first car which was rwd and those rear wheel wells got full of snow and the car was not being able to drive before I took some snow away in there. So useing summer tires year around with haveing ice roads and snow roads is just insane IMO. The winter tires with the snowflake on it. You can lower the speed to have control at least. With great studded winter tires you have a safety on ice roads that is awesome. Then when all comes around it`s the speed that kills and if the distance is to close to the next car infront of you. And the that drives like it`s summer dry roads or are just stupid drivers.

Sorry for getting carried away. But with this weather hitting the southern Sweden and you read on the news when fatal accidents happens more. It`s sad that some people is in hurry to get to places and risk that they are not getting there at all and worst case not getting anywhere ever again.
 
I always found it strange that the euro tire tests had tires we pretty much don’t or can’t get here in the USA

But on that thought wonder what percentage of vehicles used during winter in the states use a winter tire at all.

Think it would be easier to just ship Euro models here than make a new line for the states if they are small % movers.

Unless there is an entire separate DOT approval process that has be met with anything sold here


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SWETM- Heh heh, you`re preaching to the choir when it comes to discussing the right tires for the conditions with me :D I wouldn`t be caught dead driving even all-season tires in the winter, or even most winter tires as the poorer ones aren`t any good IME.

We don`t have unplowed roads so bad that there`d be any buildup between cleanings, but then I keep our vehicles awfully nice in the winter, including the wells/undercarriages. And I truly believe that keeping such areas LSPed helps minimize buildup.

In my area we simply must drive on winter tires in warmer/clear weather because our winter weather varies so much. It`s been 50° recently but tomorrow it`ll be below zero. I`ve never found (unstudded) winter tires to be a handicap at legal speeds, so if we`re not getting out a different car with summer rubber we just grit our teeth and drive slower than we`d like.

But I don`t think we could run studded tires much better now than in the past. Just too many days with clear or wet, and warm, pavement during our winters. The upside is that we seldom have so much snow that we have to park the Quattros and share the Tahoe.
 
MattPersman said:
I always found it strange that the euro tire tests had tires we pretty much don’t or can’t get here in the USA

But on that thought wonder what percentage of vehicles used during winter in the states use a winter tire at all.

Think it would be easier to just ship Euro models here than make a new line for the states if they are small % movers.

Unless there is an entire separate DOT approval process that has be met with anything sold here


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Winter tires are almost impossible to find in my area despite weather being appropriate for their use (at least this winter). Costco is one of my only options locally, and even then they`d have to order them.

For the winte tire user in my part of the US, the best bet is ordering on line through TireRack or 1010 Tires. I am a big fan of TireRack, but 1010 Tires is a Canadian company which happens to serve the US as well which makes their winter tire selection much better.

Accumulator said:
In my area we simply must drive on winter tires in warmer/clear weather because our winter weather varies so much. It`s been 50° recently but tomorrow it`ll be below zero.
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This has been my biggest problem personally when it comes to what tires I run in the winter. Over the last 3~4 years our total snow fall has been less than 6 inches COMBINED. Each of those winters progressively got warmer with the average hovering right around high 30`s/low 40`s (with plenty of days in the 50`s and 60`s). I had no problems running all seasons as my winter set because the weather was simply too warm and too mild.

This winter is completely different. Far colder than anything we`ve seen in 10 years, and we had more snow in one storm last month than the total snow fall for last 6 years. I`ll be mounting winter tires when my all seasons wear out and hope we don`t go back to the warm "winters" we had in the past.
 
Desertnate- Maybe it`s because we`re not driving as much now that we`re retired (well, I am, my wife still tutors a few days/week), but our winter tires don`t wear as fast as I`d expected when we drive on dry roads. I used to think they`d wear out in no time, but I guess we`re driving slowly enough that it doesn`t happen.

I`ve tried getting by with our highly rated) Michelin All Seasons during winter driving in what I consider "light winter conditions" but they simply didn`t compare to real winter tires. We generally have one vehicle with All Seasons on it that we can use if need be, so I`m spoiled with regard to having the right tires for the conditions.

EDIT: back in `15 we had such a mild winter that I left the (then new) Pilot AS3s on the A8 all winter. On the rare days when it really snowed we drove something else after the first tries with those in "light snow". I`m glad you`re planning to get winter tires in the future.
 
Accumulator said:
Desertnate- Maybe it`s because we`re not driving as much now that we`re retired (well, I am, my wife still tutors a few days/week), but our winter tires don`t wear as fast as I`d expected when we drive on dry roads. I used to think they`d wear out in no time, but I guess we`re driving slowly enough that it doesn`t happen.
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I don`t drive all that much either. My commute to work is only around 10~12 miles each way.

I`m glad to hear your winter tires down`t wear out too fast. I always thought lots of miles on dry roads in warmer conditions would kill a set pretty quickly.
 
With the Polar Vortez that has settled in, all the roads got a fair amount of salt laid down.
As I was washing the DD last week in low 30`s, I was saying to myself, how nice it`s been this year, that I`ve NOT needed to wash off salt brined panels !
Heh, I jinxed it
 
Desertnate said:
I`m glad to hear your winter tires down`t wear out too fast. I always thought lots of miles on dry roads in warmer conditions would kill a set pretty quickly.
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Last year I really pushed it as I needed new summer (well, A/S) tires for the Tahoe...in the warm weather I could really smell the Blizzaks and thought "uh-oh!" but it appears they suffered that abuse OK.
 
In other news I just tried to clean the inside of the windows on the GTI, which is in the unheated garage, but none-the-less out of the elements. I wound up having to start it up and warm the interior because the window cleaner was freezing... That`s an interesting first for me...

And the car is white again. I washed it the other day and when I stopped at the Sheetz (35 min drive) it was white again. I give up!
 
Desertnate said:
I don`t drive all that much either. My commute to work is only around 10~12 miles each way.

I`m glad to hear your winter tires down`t wear out too fast. I always thought lots of miles on dry roads in warmer conditions would kill a set pretty quickly.
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I think a lot of the wear can be cut down just revising your driving to accommodate the soft rubber/tall tread blocks. My first set of snows on my Jetta back in the day, I used probably 50% of the measured tread (not to the wear bars or snow bars), but I was driving around like a 17yo in an Autocross modded MkII (because I was). Since then I just take it easy and have gotten much much longer life. I think I mentioned earlier in this thread I’ve got 38k on my current snows (not the “high performance” or whatever they call the variety that’re pretty much all seasons).

I do have quattro, an intentionally adjusted alignment, and a mainly highway commute on my side though. FWD and all your torque will obviously be a bit harder on them.

I will I’ll admit every spring I’m dying to put the Super Sports back on once it’s safe. I end up erring on deeper into spring before bolting them on because there are too many bridges/highway curves between my house and work to risk running rock hard Summer tires in too cool of temps. I’ve played that game before (again, teen in hopped up MkII), and you absolutely get rendered just-a-passenger if the conditions go south. Had a big eye opener in a dusting of snow on whatever the hot Pirelli of the day was at the time, even basically just crawling along.


Accumulator - glad the Blizzaks held up ok despite wafting odors. Had a coworker turn his blue on an... enthusiastic highway drive back from training in Chicago —> Twin Cities.
 
Oneheadlite- Heh heh, glad your coworker lived to tell...never know when "enthusiasm beyond the tire`s designed capabilities" might result in more than a good story.

But yeah...just dialing it back really does make a diff...as I tell myself when taking certain curves in the Tahoe. My wife is easy enough on the A8 that, well...I won`t say how old her Bilzzaks are :o but with our driveway a sheet of ice the other day she was only slipping a very little bit, not enough that I`m ready to replace `em even though we`ve sure gotten our money`s worth out of that set.
 
my biggest gripes with out snows (preferred pref Nokians) is just the wet weather performance. I call them gummi bears on warm dry days, it`s more like jello on rainy weather days.
 
The last time I got to enjoy the snow/cold was in Korea with my Jeep / then the Hummer`s when we were the first to get them in service. Mine couldn`t drive to well in the -18 degrees and 3 ft of snow in those awesome Korean rice paddles near the DMZ. You all be careful out there.:Sleigh
 
I know others had it colder but this is as cold as I remember seeing on any car I owned temp reading while driving. No account for the wind chill we had brrr

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-15°F would be a heat-wave, compared to the last few days in Green Bay, WI. Was -25°F this morning, with a Wind Chill Index of -44°F. Schools have been closed on Monday (snow), and then Wed. and today (Thur.) because of intense Artic cold. Been a LONG time since it has been this cold, this long, in Wisconsin.
The roads are snow packed and icy because the salt only works to about 5°F and the good deicer (calcium chloride) is only used on bridges and overpasses, but that only works to about -20°F, so it is extremely slippery on ALL the roads. I took my wife to work at her dental office and the roads are like washboard gravel back roads up north in the boonies/sticks, but with hard packed snow. Never have seen that in the entire city of Green Bay.
Lots of car battery issues, tires coming off rims because of low tire pressures (who checks tire pressures in extreme cold!! Remember tires loose about 1 PSI for each drop of 10°F below an ambient temp of 60°F with tires set at normal operating pressure of 32 PSI), and semi-diesel fuel gelling at extreme cold. It is so cold, the police have issued a towing ban, unless it is an extreme emergency (their call, not you!). Gotta love winter in Wisconsin (or be dumb enough to live here, as all of you in the southeast are thinking.)

Get this: by Sunday we will be in the 40°F`s with Freezing Rain . Lots of cars are going to loose their ermine white salt covering and frozen slush bottom rails and wheel wells. They ALL look bad right now.. A clean vehicle sticks out like a sore thumb in this Artic weather.

Oh yah, if you go back and look at SWETM`s tire scores of 8,2 (etc.) is really 8.2. The Europeans use the comma for the decimal point, which can be REALLY confusing because we in the USA use the comma to delineate the thousands place (like 1,0345.563). I think the Europeans use a blank space (Like 1 345,563). JFYI.
 
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