Got my PC, but can't get rid of all swirls (pics)

M

Macruz19

New member
Just got my PC 7336 today so I wanted to try it out. I just did one part of my car which was one side of the roof of my car. I had some swirls I wanted to take care of so I used Menz IP with the orange pad first. I was so scared to use speed 6 since I never tried but then I just went ahead. Nothing to it. I stopped and buffed it off. Looked better but the deeper swirls were still there. I then switched to the Yellow pad and used Menz IP again. This time it took a little more of the swirls, but still there ** I did not apply pressure on the PC **



So I then tried the same procedure with the Yellow pad. Still there. I stopped and then used a white pad for Z-PC. That made my paint even more shiny. I then used Z-AIO by machine for the first time, topped it off with 2 coats of Z-5pro w/ZFX, and 1 x Z-2. I then used Z-CS to final seal the section I worked on. Here are some pics.



paint.jpg


paint2.jpg


paint3.jpg


paint4.jpg


paint5.jpg


paint6.jpg




My question to the veterans and pros. Do I need a better pad/polish/or more pressure and time to make my car almost flawless without using a rotary machine? This was the first time and to me, I think it was 60% better. I did make that one part of my car even more shiny! Thanks for the help and advice!
 
Hi Macruz19, the thing with the PC is u need to apply pressure bout 10 - 15 lbs and slow arm speed. Don't be afraid of the PC, it's a very gentle machine. It would not burn through the paint.... :) And slowly work the product (cleaner polish) till it nearly dry. But not completely dry. Its all in the technique. Don't worry the PC is far less as aggressive like the Rotary.



Oh one more thing remember to turn down the speed when use the PC for waxing. Waxing u just need speed either 3 or 4.



By the way..... Nice work. :dance
 
SilverSeven said:
Hi Macruz19, the thing with the PC is u need to apply pressure bout 10 - 15 lbs and slow arm speed. Don't be afraid of the PC, it's a very gentle machine. It would not burn through the paint.... :) And slowly work the product (cleaner polish) till it nearly dry. But not completely dry. Its all in the technique. Don't worry the PC is far less as aggressive like the Rotary.



Oh one more thing remember to turn down the speed when use the PC for waxing. Waxing u just need speed either 3 or 4.



By the way..... Nice work. :dance
Click to expand...





Thanks for props and tip...



anyone else with a solution? Thanks again.
 
I have found that you have to work really slow in order to clean up swirls. also make sure that you work the polish till it breaks down. i use PB SSR 2.5 and I work it until it literally starts dusting a little bit. takes a while but its worth it. just know your polishes and experiment it took me two cars to get the hang of it, now its a breeze.



Jim
 
Let me first start off by saying that from the looks of your pics you've done some good work there.



Now then, as you may or may not know, there is only so much you are going to be able to accomplish with the PC. I think most everyone on the forum would agree that there comes a time when you just have to tell yourself "that's as good as I can get it with the tools in my arsenal". (Believe me, as anal as my partner and I are we are CONSTANTLY dis-satisfied. Whether it be due to product selection or hardness of the clearcoat. In our eyes, it's NEVER good enough. :wall :hairpull )



The other thing I noticed is that from the pic of the pads you have over the bucket, they look to be fairly large. It may just be the close-up of the picture but if you are using a pad any larger than 7 to 7-1/2" on a 5" or 6" backer plate, you may be having problems with the area actually getting "worked". Most of the work is being done directly beneath the backer-plate and maybe 1/2" to 1" outside of that as this is where most of the pressure is being applied. The best way I can put it is that if you want to use "flat" pads, I'd stick with the ones that are the EXACT size of your backer-plate. If you wanted to use variable contact pads (preferably the "curved edge" type) which are a bit more versitile and can get into smaller areas, you can go up to 7-1/2" on a 6" backer and be fine. In fact, I'd recommend a 7-1/2" over a 6-1/2". As you roll the machine on it's edge you also will be moving the pressure-point and you'll still have most of the pressure right above your work area.



If you've never seen the curved edge VC pads follow this link:



Lake Country Manufacturing Inc.-Products - Curved Edge Variable Contact (VC) Foam Pads



Don't forget about The EDGE 2000 system also. Fine pads in their own right.



Hope this helps some. Good luck!



Jason

Co-Owner/Tech. Advisor

Wet Werks Auto Salon

Austin, TX.
 
Wetwerks said:
Let me first start off by saying that from the looks of your pics you've done some good work there.



Now then, as you may or may not know, there is only so much you are going to be able to accomplish with the PC. I think most everyone on the forum would agree that there comes a time when you just have to tell yourself "that's as good as I can get it with the tools in my arsenal". (Believe me, as anal as my partner and I are we are CONSTANTLY dis-satisfied. Whether it be due to product selection or hardness of the clearcoat. In our eyes, it's NEVER good enough. :wall :hairpull )



The other thing I noticed is that from the pic of the pads you have over the bucket, they look to be fairly large. It may just be the close-up of the picture but if you are using a pad any larger than 7 to 7-1/2" on a 5" or 6" backer plate, you may be having problems with the area actually getting "worked". Most of the work is being done directly beneath the backer-plate and maybe 1/2" to 1" outside of that as this is where most of the pressure is being applied. The best way I can put it is that if you want to use "flat" pads, I'd stick with the ones that are the EXACT size of your backer-plate. If you wanted to use variable contact pads (preferably the "curved edge" type) which are a bit more versitile and can get into smaller areas, you can go up to 7-1/2" on a 6" backer and be fine. In fact, I'd recommend a 7-1/2" over a 6-1/2". As you roll the machine on it's edge you also will be moving the pressure-point and you'll still have most of the pressure right above your work area.



If you've never seen the curved edge VC pads follow this link:



Lake Country Manufacturing Inc.-Products - Curved Edge Variable Contact (VC) Foam Pads



Don't forget about The EDGE 2000 system also. Fine pads in their own right.



Hope this helps some. Good luck!



Jason

Co-Owner/Tech. Advisor

Wet Werks Auto Salon

Austin, TX.
Click to expand...



Thanks!! My pads are 6 1/2. I'll check out the pads on the link you sent me. For now, I'll try to take my time with this one.
 
I'm not a pro, but from experience I would echo the post about making slow passes with *some* pressure, but not too much pressure so that the dual action rotation of the PC stops.



The other thing is to work a panel or half panel, remove residue and check work, and then do that section a second time. I've had that work for me as well.



Other than that, obviously you could step up to a more abrasive compound. Somewhere there's a post with most popular polishes listed from most to least abrasive.
 
Macruz19- I agree that you already have things looking nice. Going to the next level might be a lot of work and I often think that people get some unrealistic expectations from being around this website. Heh heh, yeah, that's more of my Autopian Heresy :o



I use a fair bit of pressure when doing correction via PC. The 6.5" pads tend to *not* lend themselves to this very well- the friction causes the PC to "bog down" and merely "jiggle". So for any significant correction I use 4" pads. These allow you to apply more pressure and they just generally behave far more aggressively. So I'd get a small backing plate and some 4" pads and see how that works out. But that's *if* you're truly unhappy with how it looks now ;) Don't go by what other people post here, go by what it looks like to you and how you feel about it.
 
I agree with Accumulator's view. Sometime we set too high expectations from the PC, the paint, the products & from ourself. Its not impossible to get a more swirl free paint but you must understand that it will come back too. It was there in the first place rite. From daily wear & tear condition of the world. For me I usually will be happy to get rid of 70 - 80 % of the swirls. It will just have some light marring & some deeper scratches on the paint. Since this is my work car & not a show car, I can live with some light marring. Even if the paint is flawless. After 6 months down the line, some swirls will be back again. Coz by washing, dirt/sand from driving on the highway behind a lorry carrying sand & every day wear & tear. This world is not perfect too. This world is getting worse every day, month & year. No one care about de-swirling the world or polishing up it too a shine back rite. :) We can only do so much? I too was looking for a perfect swirl free paint. But after finding Autopia's forum and couple of months reading & reading. I finally understand & try to look for a balance in life & in the pursue of a balance 'flawless' show car shine. :)



And the light marring that is left there also gives me a piece of mind that I didn't cut away too much clear coat in my process to find the ultimate shine.... Hehehe. Thank u. :bow
 
I just ordered a set of CCS pads 4" with the backing plate. I should get it by tomorrow so I can work on some of the deeper swirls this weekend. I can't wait to have me some fun!
 
Well...OK, I can jump over to the other side of the fence and argue from that angle too ;) I keep my daily dog-hauler minivan basically flawless, only needs polished every few years and I inspect with incandescents at every wash. IF (big "if" man, mighty big...) you can wash without marring and IF you'll *never* touch the paint except to wash it properly, then maybe it's worth it to you to get it flawless.



The problem is the "deeper swirls" right? A few thoughts: some RIDS (random isolated deep scratches) are simply too deep to remove. All my vehicles have these, even the garage queens. If they are shallow enough for safe/wise removal, then note that you'll have to get a lot more aggressive. This means you're starting all over because removing those will cause all sorts of micromarring that you'll then have to remove. IMHO if you do it *now*, with the vehicle looking so nice, you're either nuts or you have too much free time (sorry, that's my Autopian Heresy again :o ). But *if* you want to do it:



4" cutting pads (yellow or orange) with H-T EC is about as aggressive as you can get by PC. It works OK but you'll have to remove the micromarring. Just keep using the 4"/H-T EC combo until the offending marring is gone, might take a long, long time. Get some lighting that shows the marring so you know for sure how you're doing. I'd use a rotary, but I *really* don't recommend you try that.



Then get a foamgun and work on the wash technique. If you need to repolish before next spring...uhm...well..."told ya so" ;)
 
Thanks... my daily drive is the TL, and it's garaged all day at work, and at home... over night I use a car cover. Maybe I get my deep swirls from the car cover. Other than that, no dings or scratches. Most people claim that my car is flawless, but then again you can see slight swirls on the finish.
 
I'm with Accumulator that you shouldn't strive for perfection, especially being a daily driver. If you plan to have this car for a long time, and you strive for perfection you will inevitably be polishing it constantly and run the risk of going through the clear eventually, or at least thinning it out considerably. And in reality, having a good thick coat of clear is more important than any wax because without it you will not have that deep shine.
 
True, but first of all, I have never used a machine on my car till Tuesday.



When I say pefection, it doesn't mean I'm going to polish my car with a machine every weekend. I want my car to look as great as possible with the new toys I have, then stop and do things right this time than I did in the past to cause the little swirls. Maybe some of you were mis lead, but me knowing some about clear coat/ abrasives/ polish/ wax, I think buying a PC was a fine choice for a novice like me not to extend any more damage using a rotary. I did my reseach before buying, and I love to take care of my cars.
 
Macruz19- I don't think you'll thin the clear too mcuh, just that one really oughta be reasonable about this stuff.



Oh, and FWIW, I've quit using covers, even on my stored-indoors garage queens, because of the potential for marring. If you really want perfection things get a lot harder, and more impractical..you gotta consider *every* single contact with the paint. And then think about when a mechanic works on it....
 
Accumulator said:
Macruz19- I don't think you'll thin the clear too mcuh, just that one really oughta be reasonable about this stuff.



Oh, and FWIW, I've quit using covers, even on my stored-indoors garage queens, because of the potential for marring. If you really want perfection things get a lot harder, and more impractical..you gotta consider *every* single contact with the paint. And then think about when a mechanic works on it....
Click to expand...





Thanks. Yeah I think the majority of my little swirls are on my roof from the car cover. The primary use for me buying the PC was for my hood and a couple of hidden scratches. The roof was my practice that day when I received my PC. I'll try again to see if I can improve that section of the roof. It was fine before I used the PC, but after doing that section, it make it better. Now if I can get a better technique than, I'll move on to other parts of the car. Thanks for your input.



Swirls 2 months ago never bugged me since you'll always get them, but now since joining autopia and reading about ppl using PC's... I'm now considered a freak :grinno: My car doesn't have bad swirls on it, but it's visible in the light up close.
 
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