Glazes
- Thread starter Ern
- Start date
I really find it wrong when a "detailer" uses fillers on customers cars.
When a customer pays me, they are expecting me to remove their swirls and scratches, not cover them up.
If theyr swirls and scratches are coming back after a wash or two, then in my opinion, you would be ripping them off.
I will use fillers on MY car, and mine alone. Using fillers on your own car is fine, because no one is paying you to do it the right way anyway.
What I really, really hate is when a "detailer" uses an aggressive polish and pad to remove deeper swirls, and then rather remove the haze left by this, simply uses a filler (and since haze is tiny scratches, it makes it shine) so that when it wears off the paint is hazy (and the detailer just convinces them that thats how it was before) and the customer keeps coming back.
People tell me all the time "oh yea I have had my car detailed before, but it just looks the same in a few weeks".
When a customer pays me, they are expecting me to remove their swirls and scratches, not cover them up.
If theyr swirls and scratches are coming back after a wash or two, then in my opinion, you would be ripping them off.
I will use fillers on MY car, and mine alone. Using fillers on your own car is fine, because no one is paying you to do it the right way anyway.
What I really, really hate is when a "detailer" uses an aggressive polish and pad to remove deeper swirls, and then rather remove the haze left by this, simply uses a filler (and since haze is tiny scratches, it makes it shine) so that when it wears off the paint is hazy (and the detailer just convinces them that thats how it was before) and the customer keeps coming back.
People tell me all the time "oh yea I have had my car detailed before, but it just looks the same in a few weeks".
ron231 said:
I agree with you if the customer is paying to remove the swirls. I'll spend as much time as needed to give the most perfect results as I get paid by the hour. However, you do come across some people that do not want to get the car polished because of cost or fear that you might ruin their car. In those cases I will use prod X and CIW 845. I use Wool, Foam, Presta polishes, and Menzerna most of the time to do details but I do carry filler and non-filler glazes as well to accomodate all needs.
kapinnn said:
You seem like a great detailer to me as do most people on autopia, I was definitely not targeting you, or even anyone specifically.
However, I have problems with people that use products like for instance, 3m. Many of the 3m polishes have some bite, and some fill, and a lot of body shops, as well as your average $100 4 hours for a full detail mobile guy use these products. And the problem is, (as much as I like wool for cutting) theyll use it with a wool pad or an agressive foam pad that would normally leave marring and hazing, however since their product has abrasives and fillers, this is not seen until a few weeks later.
Dealerships are famous for this too, theyll use something like megs #66 (I like to call it sixty-six-fill pronounced very quickly) on a wool pad on a rotary in the hands of a $10 an hour employee who thinks he is doing a good job, but never has the oppurtunity to see what he is really doing, aka leaving buffer trails, that are filled in.
I know I am ranting, and I do apologize for that, but crappy detailing just seems so common now. Just the other day I was talking to a guy whose father owns a Z06 that he brings to car shows and claims his father is this amazing detailer. So I got to see the Z06, and i don't think i have seen a car so badly swirled in months. It looked like he was washing it with a brillo, literally! The wheels were clean, but I look at the tires and what do I see, armor-all (crude oil in a bottle) greasy crap, that has "slung"
all over the paint so no there are black, greasy smears on the sides of the car from this crap. I look inside, and what am I greeted with? A dashboard so greasy and shiny, I think I could use it as a mirror :faint: (well, there was a load of dust on it from that armor-all-crude-oil). By the way the only way thats really relevnt, is because I am pretty sure that before he goes to these car shows he uses a heavy filler product before he puts on his tire and dashboard grease so people dont see how horrible the paint really is.
A good filling product that has some cut is Meg's #9. Works well when you aren't going to get a finish to 100% before LSP. And the good news is that NXT, #20, and #21 all adhere fine over it. I also like #9 when I'm getting ready to go at one of my cars that doesn't need much polishing, just surface cleaning and exremely mild polishing, before #21.
JasonD
New member
03TLS said:
In my honest opinion, I would say yes. You may get *some* protective properties from EX-P but they won't last. Also, how long did you wait before applying Nattys? If you didn't wait the recommended 24 hours, then you definitely didn't get any benefits from the EX-P.
ron231 said:
Even though I fully agree with you on everything you are saying, I'd like it to be known that 3M makes VERY good detailing products, you just have to know which ones to pick. Some of my all time favorite polishes are made by 3M, like the Perfect It line (Rubbing Compound and Machine Glaze specifically, which do not contain fillers of any kind).
Junebug
JAFO
I have to agree with J, it seems like when 3M is mentioned a lot of people cringe. They don't realize that bodyshops like 3M because they "don't" contain silicone fillers which play havoc on painters trying to do repaints. I've recently read very positive reviews (here BTW) about 3M's consumer line that's showing up in the auto supply stores.
Oh I am sure there are great 3m polishes, but I know that some of them are extremely filler heavy.
A month or so ago I was at a classic car show, and one guy who did his own paint job (looked amazing by the way) had wetsanded out the orange peel and then used 3m to polish out the wetsanding scratches.
He told me that he used what 3m recomended, with their backing plates and pads on a makita and the car looked great when he was done. However, as was clearly visible at the show, you could now see the wetsanding scratches coming back, which he and I both noticed.
Since he would not let me detail his car (he said only he touches it) I simply advised him to buy some menzerna or optimum and he said he would try it.
Point being, some 3m is good, but there are filler heavy 3m products, and I have seen the results first hand.
A month or so ago I was at a classic car show, and one guy who did his own paint job (looked amazing by the way) had wetsanded out the orange peel and then used 3m to polish out the wetsanding scratches.
He told me that he used what 3m recomended, with their backing plates and pads on a makita and the car looked great when he was done. However, as was clearly visible at the show, you could now see the wetsanding scratches coming back, which he and I both noticed.
Since he would not let me detail his car (he said only he touches it) I simply advised him to buy some menzerna or optimum and he said he would try it.
Point being, some 3m is good, but there are filler heavy 3m products, and I have seen the results first hand.
Low Tech
New member
JDookie said:
Correct - But Danase Wet Glaze is an acrylic that bonds well with KSG. I just used it for the first time over 2 coats of KSG and , after curing, added another w coats of KSG. Outstanding results.
May experiment w/ Wet Glaze as a topper in a few weeks to see about durability. I actually like the Danase glaze look better, before I sealed it...
Low Tech
New member
I understand. Perhaps you can experiment and seal KSG on top of DWG. Then, if it is not to your taste, simply add another topper of glaze. Still not sure about durability...
I went a bit nuts:
KAIO w/ PC
KSG w/ PC
KSG by Hand
DWG by hand - Looked amazing at this step
KSG x 2 by hand >did not like the look as well...nit picking
>I should have just done another DWG right here and stopped but I tried Souveran next
My problem is after I topped my whole thing with Souveran, I "sealed" my fate (pun). At this point, DWG won't bond to carnauba, so I'm stuck for a while.
Also, I would guess that DWG durability would be better than Souveran. (So my durability concern seems contradicted by my choice of topper!) Still looks great though.
I'm experimenting, also, but the amount of time I have to try different combos on my cars is very limited due to travel. When the Souveran wears off a bit, I may just top the whole concoction with DWG. If so, I'll report my impressions on looks vis-a-vis durability.
I went a bit nuts:
KAIO w/ PC
KSG w/ PC
KSG by Hand
DWG by hand - Looked amazing at this step
KSG x 2 by hand >did not like the look as well...nit picking
>I should have just done another DWG right here and stopped but I tried Souveran next
My problem is after I topped my whole thing with Souveran, I "sealed" my fate (pun). At this point, DWG won't bond to carnauba, so I'm stuck for a while.
Also, I would guess that DWG durability would be better than Souveran. (So my durability concern seems contradicted by my choice of topper!) Still looks great though.
I'm experimenting, also, but the amount of time I have to try different combos on my cars is very limited due to travel. When the Souveran wears off a bit, I may just top the whole concoction with DWG. If so, I'll report my impressions on looks vis-a-vis durability.