Garage Lighting

S

shelshel

New member
I have a 24x26 garage with a little over 9ft ceiling. The garage is insulated with the brown insulation showing with clear plastic over top. Now I know the ideal situation would be to have white walls and ceiling but this isn't an option.



How well will Fluorescent lighting working in my situation + how many light fixtures would you recommend.
 
My plan is to have two banks of lights down each side and one bank in the front and back. Kind of a large rectangle around where I usually park the car when I'm working on it. I've got 3 banks with two bulbs in each hooked up right now. That seems to work ok. I need more light though. I need lower lights so I can see the lower half of the door on smaller cars.
 
Jngrbrdman said "I need lower lights so I can see the lower half of the door on smaller cars."



Yeah, you'll be happier if you can mount fluorescents on the sides of the garage. Makes a world of difference!



Jim
 
What about this model? Enough wattage?



"LITHONIA" 48" FLUORESCENT SHOPLIGHT W/COLD WEATHER BALLAST



Takes 2-25 or 40 watt fluorescent lamps (sold separately)



Cold weather ballast 0 degrees



Cord set attached 5 length
 
Just remember that [Accumulator's broken record...] marring such as light "swirlmarks" doesn't show up well under fluorescent lighting (except sometimes on *white* paint, oddly enough). You can have some unpleasant surprises if you do your marring removal under fluorescents. Heh heh, even my wife's Audi looks nearly perfect under fluorescents ;)



But yeah, for general illumination they're great. Wall mounting is just as great as people are saying :xyxthumbs And generally, you just can't have *too much* light.
 
After much reading, I still can't figure out why everyone uses fluorescent light as opposed to halogen.(for just that reason, accumulator) It's akin to trying to see swirls in broad, natural daylight.

I've changed my own game plan from f to h, and it's even much, much cheaper.

:nixweiss
 
audio1der said:
After much reading, I still can't figure out why everyone uses fluorescent light as opposed to halogen.(for just that reason, accumulator) It's akin to trying to see swirls in broad, natural daylight.

I've changed my own game plan from f to h, and it's even much, much cheaper.

:nixweiss
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When you say cheaper, are you referring to the cost of the fixture or the cost to operate. I've heard you can get some of fluorescent bulbs that will actually shine like daylight. Does anyone have this type of bulb and can offer any advice.



I'd be interested in the halogens and what your setup is.
 
I've seen the special "daylight/full spectrum" fluorescents; the framing shop/art gallery that we frequent uses them. I can get the brandname if anybody really cares, it's not something you can just buy at the local big-box store. They're made just for accurate color rendition and they do give a *very* accurate read on color and some types of texture. But you still can't see marring under them very well (I checked using a black lacquer picture frame). It seems that fluorescent light just isn't the right technology for this particular task.



Again, it's not like I have any issue with them for most things, I have 48 x 8' and 8 x 4' fluorescent tubes in my shop. They're great for washing and other normal stuff.



Seems most people use halogens in adjustable "work light" fixtures. It sure is convenient to be able to position the light just the way you want it, though you still have to alter your viewing angle to spot everything. Since you need very high power lights for this I dunno how well ceiling/wall mount fixtures would work. And you gotta watch it when using halogens for "normal" lighting; if you hit a hot halogen bulb with water (e.g., when you're washing) it'll burst. I have a cheapie 2 x 500W work light and a fancier 4 x 300W Craftsman one. I actually prefer the cheapie by a wide margin.



[More broken record...] High wattage incandescents are still my #1 choice for spotting marring. Simply because I (and everyone I know who's ever tried experimenting with different lights) can see flaws that don't show up under other light sources. No need to take my word for it; trouble lights are cheap and so are 200+ wattage bulbs. Try it for yourself in an otherwise dark garage, as Bill D did. Heh heh, just ask him how it worked out ;



I still need natural sunlight for certain types of holograms though.
 
shelshel said:
I have a 24x26 garage with a little over 9ft ceiling. The garage is insulated with the brown insulation showing with clear plastic over top. Now I know the ideal situation would be to have white walls and ceiling but this isn't an option.



How well will Fluorescent lighting working in my situation + how many light fixtures would you recommend.
Click to expand...



a good rule of thimb is 1.5 W/sq ft



24 x 26 x 1.5 = 950 W



950 / 40W/bulb = 24 4' bulbs at 40W each



24 bulbs / 4 bulbs/fixture = 6 fixtures



5'



4' I 8' I 8' I 4'





8'





4' I 8' I 8' I 4'



5'
 
Accumulator said:
... High wattage incandescents are still my #1 choice for spotting marring. Simply because I ... can see flaws that don't show up under other light sources.



...I still need natural sunlight for certain types of holograms though.
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I'd guess that this is because holograms need point source illumination to be visible. The more diffuse and uniform the light source the harder they are to see.



Fluorescent bulbs/fixtures have a lot of surface area that emits light. Halogen "work lights" use tubular lamps with near linear filaments and large faceted reflectors to spread the light out. Standard light bulbs are fairly small and "trouble lights" don't have large diffusing reflectors so it makes sense that they would work better than most.



The sun has the advantage of being both very bright, overpowering any other light sources, and very far away, causing it to act very much like a point source.



To look for holograms indoors it might be worth trying a very small halogen bulb in a fixture with no reflector and all other lights in the room turned way down.





PC.
 
the other PC- Those are good points, and you made it all very easy to understand :xyxthumbs



If I ever have holograms to worry about again (fingers crossed) I might give the small halogen bulb a try. Last time I just positioned the car so sunlight through the window hit them, but it still wasn't as easy to spot them as it was outside. And being at the mercy of the weather is a real hassle.



artm3- Good to have a watt/sq. foot rule to go by, but I wonder how ceiling height factors in. I have about twice as many fluorescent tubes as the formula would dictate, and IMO it's still not *too* bright even with the walls and ceiling painted white. *BUT* I have a cathedral ceiling in the shop, which has to make a huge difference. Also, I like a lot of light, so what's not "too bright" for me might be pretty blinding for somebody else.
 
artm3- Good to have a watt/sq. foot rule to go by, but I wonder how ceiling height factors in. I have about twice as many fluorescent tubes as the formula would dictate, and IMO it's still not *too* bright even with the walls and ceiling painted white. *BUT* I have a cathedral ceiling in the shop, which has to make a huge difference. Also, I like a lot of light, so what's not "too bright" for me might be pretty blinding for somebody else. [/B]
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you're correct, height has a lot to do with it,light follows the inverse square rule IRRC, i.e., if the light is moved twice as far away, it's only 1/4 the intensity....



a light at 12' compared to one at 8' would only be ~44% as bright...you can see this, take a flashlight and play with against a wall...



let's call it 50%, or equivilent to having only 1/2 as many lights...



I would mount them only high enough to clear the garage door..
 
artm3- More good info.



Heh heh, the "normal rules" didn't really apply in my garage, as some functional considerations sorta conflicted with others (and some conflicted with aesthetic concerns, I'm sorry to say :o ). But for most people, yeah, just clearing the doors would be a good height.



FWIW, the "incandescents for swirl spotting" still seem to work great even when they're pretty high up there. The bare bulbs (no reflectors, as you had mentioned) in our "regular", part-of-the-house, garage sure do show every little flaw!
 
Accumulator said:
Just remember that [Accumulator's broken record...] marring such as light "swirlmarks" doesn't show up well under fluorescent lighting (except sometimes on *white* paint, oddly enough). You can have some unpleasant surprises if you do your marring removal under fluorescents. Heh heh, even my wife's Audi looks nearly perfect under fluorescents ;)



But yeah, for general illumination they're great. Wall mounting is just as great as people are saying :xyxthumbs And generally, you just can't have *too much* light.
Click to expand...



What about fluorescents like these? Do you think they would show marring / swirl marks?



F40T12/VERILUX®

Home / Full Spectrum Natural Light Bulbs / Verilux Fluorescent Tubes 6280 Kelvin



This Full-Spectrum fluorescent creates a natural color spectrum similar to natural Sunlight and is effective in treating winter depression.



http://www.1000bulbs.com/product.php?product=3833
 
roaringmouse- Nah, IMO it' just the nature of the fluorescent lighting that makes it less than optimal for swirl spotting. It's not the kelvin rating or even the wattage, it's the type of light source.



They might still be worth getting just to have a nicer work environment though. And having accurate color rendition would be very helpful when working on certain colors.
 
I plan to setup my lights in a parallel fashion. Ceiling height in my garage is something like 6'10". Will be fully drywalled everywhere (except the west garage wall, temporarily until I build studs there), painted a slightly off-white color.



Garage_layout.png
 
LiquidKernel- I think you're gonna need more lighting than that. For starters, I'd replace the 4' fluorescents with 8' ones and the 2' ones with 4' ones (at least). I like to have a lot of light over my workbenches. Plan to mount some 8' fixtures on the walls. And I'd add some high-wattage incandescents over the area where you plan to do most of your polishing.



That's not based on a formula like artm3 provided, just eyeballing your proposed setup and comparing it with the way I've illuminated similar areas at my place. IMO it's pretty incredible just how many light fixtures you need for decent illumination.



Instead of off-white, I'd go with the most reflective, glossy pure white you can get. It won't "show dirt" more or anything like that but everything you can do to make the shop brighter will be well appreciated later.



Any plans for floor drains and water lines yet?



You're smart to do plenty of planning before you start spending money :xyxthumbs



Oh, and I ended up using a spiral staircase to get to the second floor of my garage. It takes up a lot less space than a regular one (looks pretty cool, too).
 
If your garage is heated, you dont need the cold weather ballasts. if its unheated, get the cold weather ballasts. the bulbs are more expensive, but they will fire up in cold weather. also, get cool white bulbs, warm white have a yellow tint, cool white are whiter.
 
LiquidKernel said:
I plan to setup my lights in a parallel fashion. Ceiling height in my garage is something like 6'10". Will be fully drywalled everywhere (except the west garage wall, temporarily until I build studs there), painted a slightly off-white color.
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without knowing dimensions, I would at least do this:



mount the fixtures cross ways, in a row



-

-

-

-



as it looks, it's gonna be dark in the middle, especially since they are so low...
 
Accumulator said:
LiquidKernel- I think you're gonna need more lighting than that. For starters, I'd replace the 4' fluorescents with 8' ones and the 2' ones with 4' ones (at least). I like to have a lot of light over my workbenches. Plan to mount some 8' fixtures on the walls. And I'd add some high-wattage incandescents over the area where you plan to do most of your polishing.



That's not based on a formula like artm3 provided, just eyeballing your proposed setup and comparing it with the way I've illuminated similar areas at my place. IMO it's pretty incredible just how many light fixtures you need for decent illumination.



Instead of off-white, I'd go with the most reflective, glossy pure white you can get. It won't "show dirt" more or anything like that but everything you can do to make the shop brighter will be well appreciated later.



Any plans for floor drains and water lines yet?



You're smart to do plenty of planning before you start spending money :xyxthumbs



Oh, and I ended up using a spiral staircase to get to the second floor of my garage. It takes up a lot less space than a regular one (looks pretty cool, too).
Click to expand...



To tell you the truth, I think it'll be okay. Right now even the garage door lights provide a good amount of light, and those are two small bulbs. If the 4 footers won't be long enough, I can always change the lights and return the 4 footers to home depot (w00t for 100% refunds).



The reason I am picking an off-white color is not because of the dirt factor (I didn't even really consider this until now), but just for aesthetics. So it's kind of form over function, but I think it'll suffice. Plain white is just too... plain in my opinion :)



There is a floor drain right between where the two lights are next to the garage door; it slopes down slightly. The top part of the garage is flat, so that's good for automotive work where I need to jack up a car. Right at the laundry area there is a nice new 2ft x 2ft utility sink with hot and cold water. So I'm set for those two points.



Definitely worth planning anything before you start work. My dad always tought me to do that; plus, he's financing this garage deally even though I was the one who requested it and will be using it.



The staircase is stock (err, original) and will just have lighting added near it. I am also considering adding some track lighting and such. I have a lot planned for my garage, just need to start working on it.



artm3: I am thinking that as well, it seems like I will be lacking light in those areas. Though I will still wire them up in pairs so that I don't have to waste electricity when only one car is being worked on (garage fits two, with plenty of room to spare).
 
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