Ford Engineers - Business as Ussual

Me thinks the carbon is getting on there when the valve opens from whatever is left in the combustion chamber.

I'm thinking if PCV was the answer one of the engineering dudes would have developed a new intake or PVC system to fix the issue.
 
Swanicyouth said:
Me thinks the carbon is getting on there when the valve opens from whatever is left in the combustion chamber.

I'm thinking if PCV was the answer one of the engineering dudes would have developed a new intake or PVC system to fix the issue.
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Yeah, but the valve should only be opening on intake stroke--nothing should be going back the other way--sure maybe there's some overlap, but...

In this article linked earlier: Ask An Engineer: GDI Problems In A Nutshell - The Truth About Cars

It says: "Due to modern unburned hydrocarbon (UHC) regulations, vapors from the crankcase are usually vented into the intake stream in order to prevent oil droplets from escaping through the exhaust. In a port injection engine, these droplets are ‘washed off’ the neck of the intake valve by a relatively constant stream of gasoline droplets. In a GDI engine, the gasoline doesn’t touch intake side of the valve. As a result, the droplets have a tendency to bake onto the valve and significantly reduce performance."

And: "Manufacturers have added systems to capture these oil droplets and particulates, but no system is 100% effective."

Hence my conclusion/understanding that it's the PCV requirements that are leading to the deposits and that filtration of the PCV vapors is/will be a method to combat this. I'm thinking to be effective it's going to be an expensive filter and something that may have to be changed pretty often, like every oil change.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Yeah, but the valve should only be opening on intake stroke--nothing should be going back the other way--sure maybe there's some overlap, but...

In this article linked earlier: Ask An Engineer: GDI Problems In A Nutshell - The Truth About Cars

It says: "Due to modern unburned hydrocarbon (UHC) regulations, vapors from the crankcase are usually vented into the intake stream in order to prevent oil droplets from escaping through the exhaust. In a port injection engine, these droplets are ‘washed off’ the neck of the intake valve by a relatively constant stream of gasoline droplets. In a GDI engine, the gasoline doesn’t touch intake side of the valve. As a result, the droplets have a tendency to bake onto the valve and significantly reduce performance."

And: "Manufacturers have added systems to capture these oil droplets and particulates, but no system is 100% effective."

Hence my conclusion/understanding that it's the PCV requirements that are leading to the deposits and that filtration of the PCV vapors is/will be a method to combat this. I'm thinking to be effective it's going to be an expensive filter and something that may have to be changed pretty often, like every oil change.
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I'm glad I do not own one of these engines BUT IF I had one every 10,000 miles I would buy a can of cleaner and run it through the intake system to clean it. No more than I drive anymore that would be once every 2 years NO big deal for the advantages of the GDI engine.
They claim better torque and better fuel economy but in the near futue they will come up with a better solution.
 
Interestingly enough, BMW has had for years a more complicated PCV system that takes the oil droplets out and sends them to the dispstick tube to get back to the oil pan..

Now, since the (actually been around for several years), move of more manufacturers to Direct Injection, we can only hope the - are they REALLY Engineers - of our vehicles here in the USA will noodle this out, like the Germans did what - over a decade ago - to separate the oil from the crankcase ventilation system better than we have ever even had a dream about.. :)
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
Interestingly enough, BMW has had for years a more complicated PCV system that takes the oil droplets out and sends them to the dispstick tube to get back to the oil pan..

Now, since the (actually been around for several years), move of more manufacturers to Direct Injection, we can only hope the - are they REALLY Engineers - of our vehicles here in the USA will noodle this out, like the Germans did what - over a decade ago - to separate the oil from the crankcase ventilation system better than we have ever even had a dream about.. :)
Dan F
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You are correct and it is not really that hard.
I had a serous oil blowing problem on my Corvette with very high Boost.
It took some rather clever engineered pieces but I cured it.
No reason the engineers for major manufactures can't cure this.
 
black bart said:
I'm glad I do not own one of these engines BUT IF I had one every 10,000 miles I would buy a can of cleaner and run it through the intake system to clean it. No more than I drive anymore that would be once every 2 years NO big deal for the advantages of the GDI engine.
They claim better torque and better fuel economy but in the near futue they will come up with a better solution.
Click to expand...

On a different forum, they are showing the valves and stems crapping up due to gdi since fuel doesn't wash the valves.

Guess it's gonna be a trade off, crapped up valves instead of clogged injectors.
 
While we are blasting engineers I will relate a story about what happened to me one morning.
I took a load to Detroit it was to deliver at 8am and I was early so I stopped at a truck stop near Dearborn. I sit down next to a guy at the counter, He had a shirt that had FORD on it so I ask what he did at Ford and he said he was an engineer.
I had just bought a new F250 4x4 and I had done modifications to the engine transmission suspension and steering.
So I start telling him how the steering sucked and how I had cured it.
He understood what I had done and how it would affect the steering and he ask me if I would like a job with Ford.
I ask what doing he said work in engineering we could use a man like you.
I said I never had any schooling in auto engineering he said we could use you I can get you on. I replied no thanks I will stick with what I know best.
I really do believe he was serious.
 
Just needs the good ol' Italian tune-up every once in a while. Your average Joe doesn't drive spirited enough to get the engine/oil temps hot enough. Heck, even I have problems in the winter with condensation buildup on my short work commute. A good upper RPM (I'm talkin a good 15-20 min constantly) run does wonders...


That said, I'll stick with my antique design Inline-5, OHV GM V6, and Modular Ford...
 
black bart ---

Sounds like you have a great INNOVATIVE MIND going on there - this is so great !!!!
This is great to hear that you figured out what didnt work and most importantly, made and/or improved a known process..

And with that, you must have figured out how NOT to get discouraged enough to give up... This IS a big deal...

I am so proud of you !!!

All too often, some of the disciplines people spend 6+ years in getting educated in, dont always get to that "I" word that also encompasses INVENTORS...

When you think about great Inventors, I can remember one story of Thomas Edison, who had invented records and film, built a big plant to manufacture those inventions, and all was going great - until one night there was a huge fire in this plant, so hot and big that several Fire Engine Companies could not even begin to put it out..

His Daughter went out to the fire in the middle of the night, worried that her Dad was possibly injured, etc., and instead, when she got there, she saw him running towards her very excited..

He told her he was ok and to go get her Mother and Grandmother and bring them back..
He said they needed to see this - because they would never ever see a fire this big again in their lifetime ! :)

The next morning, before the fire had even quit burning, he gathered his employees of this plant, and started assigning them things to do so they could Rebuild !!!
He assigned some to go hire all the Machine Shops in Erie, etc., go get huge earth movers, etc., and then at the end, he said - "Anyone know where we can get some money? " :)

This is the kind of people we need for so many things NOW !!!!

Pretty much all our Ancestors were these people - when something broke, they figured out how to fix and or improve it !!!

Lets all go Forward - not Backward... :)
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
black bart ---

Sounds like you have a great INNOVATIVE MIND going on there - this is so great !!!!
This is great to hear that you figured out what didnt work and most importantly, made and/or improved a known process..

And with that, you must have figured out how NOT to get discouraged enough to give up... This IS a big deal...

I am so proud of you !!!

All too often, some of the disciplines people spend 6+ years in getting educated in, dont always get to that "I" word that also encompasses INVENTORS...

When you think about great Inventors, I can remember one story of Thomas Edison, who had invented records and film, built a big plant to manufacture those inventions, and all was going great - until one night there was a huge fire in this plant, so hot and big that several Fire Engine Companies could not even begin to put it out..

His Daughter went out to the fire in the middle of the night, worried that her Dad was possibly injured, etc., and instead, when she got there, she saw him running towards her very excited..

He told her he was ok and to go get her Mother and Grandmother and bring them back..
He said they needed to see this - because they would never ever see a fire this big again in their lifetime ! :)

The next morning, before the fire had even quit burning, he gathered his employees of this plant, and started assigning them things to do so they could Rebuild !!!
He assigned some to go hire all the Machine Shops in Erie, etc., go get huge earth movers, etc., and then at the end, he said - "Anyone know where we can get some money? " :)

This is the kind of people we need for so many things NOW !!!!

Pretty much all our Ancestors were these people - when something broke, they figured out how to fix and or improve it !!!

Lets all go Forward - not Backward... :)
Dan F
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I have built several things that I could not buy.
Back in 1980 I installed a air conditioner heat pump but it was air to air back then you could not get a geothermal heat pump.
The heat pump did not work below around 20 degrees so it had a built in thermostat and it would switch to built in electric heat strips.

Instead of running the heat strips I wanted to use my furnace when it was too cold for the heat pump.
I checked with all the heating suppliers and no one made anything to do that so I went to a electronic supply and bought what I needed and built one.
That was 1980 and it is still working today.
About 25 years after I built mine carrier built one.
See all I was thinking about was making what I wanted and never give a thought to the fact that someone else would want one. If I had got a patient I could have made a lot of money but I have done that on several things I just build what I can't buy and never give a thought about someone else wanting one.
 
Here's an artical that talks about an oil seperator on a Coyote engine. It's an afttermarket Ford product which definitely means they're aware of blow by in a boosted engine. Though this engine is not yet a GDI engine, it too has its own problems with boost and pushing oil.

There's been a lot of talk about this engine becoming a DI engine, apparently Ford left a space in the chamber that many assume would become an injection port.

SEMA 2014: Ford Racing Pulls Out All The Stops For 2015 Mustangs - StangTV
 
GearHead_1 said:
Here's an artical that talks about an oil seperator on a Coyote engine. It's an afttermarket Ford product which definitely means they're aware of blow by in a boosted engine. Though this engine is not yet a GDI engine, it too has its own problems with boost and pushing oil.

There's been a lot of talk about this engine becoming a DI engine, apparently Ford left a space in the chamber that many assume would become an injection port.

SEMA 2014: Ford Racing Pulls Out All The Stops For 2015 Mustangs - StangTV
Click to expand...
Yep a common problem on Boosted engines.
Took me a few try's before I totally got mine cured.
You think Ford would pay me anything if I told them how to stop it and never have a drop of oil blow out.
Most drag cars just use a catch can but I did not want to go that route.
 
Good thread, Black bart linked one of the BEST DIY walnut blasting guide.
Although i dont have the experience to perform one, however i do feel like this is something i'd have to do in the near future, as my Girl and I both own a Mini Cooper and her carbon problem has been haunting her for YEARS.

But can anyone tell me how do i get the valves to close to clean each and individual valve lol?
 
You will have to rotate the engine till the valve is closed.
While it would be a lot more work but I believe removing the head is the best way to clean the valves.
 
fenderpicks said:
Good thread, Black bart linked one of the BEST DIY walnut blasting guide.
Although i dont have the experience to perform one, however i do feel like this is something i'd have to do in the near future, as my Girl and I both own a Mini Cooper and her carbon problem has been haunting her for YEARS.

But can anyone tell me how do i get the valves to close to clean each and individual valve lol?
Click to expand...

It won't be hard to tell. Just take off the valve cover and make sure the cam lobes are off the rocker/valve.
 
fenderpicks said:
How do you rotate the engine lol?
I am a beginner with this type of stuff
Click to expand...
You can bump the starter or put a wrench on the crank pulley or use a screwdriver and pry on the flywheel teeth after removing the cover.
Usually the crank pulley is the easy way.
 
Fenderpicks -
You can do this !
Just need to find out where the big nut is on the CrankShaft Pulley..
Get a pic from the Internet, ask someone who knows where it is on your cars to show you, then get the appropriately sized Metric Socket, a Ratchet or long breaker bar in 1/2" drive probably, and with the valve cover off, you can see while you rotate the crankshaft which valves are at the "top" (Closed)..
That set is the one to clean next..
Rotate crankshaft again, and repeat until done..

I am also with Black Bart of the opinion, that the really best way to clean valves is off the car with the cylinder head on the bench..

I need to watch that walnut shell blasting video...

The awesome German Car Repair Shop I worked out of in WA had boxes of walnut shells, so I have to assume they were using them as well for cleaning but Im sure they would have removed the cylinder head/s to do the work..
Good luck with this !
Dan F
 
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