For those with IT jobs...
- Thread starter kleraudio
- Start date
autolookgood
New member
kleraudio said:
It really depends on what you need to be making and what hours you want to work etc...
Certifications are great for the 9-13 an hour range and working like help desk jobs. anything above that is going to have to be schooling and knowing someone who will give you a crack at a job. Network administrators work long hours and are in high demand but it takes alot of hands on expereince and school like PDR does to get those jobs. Many cities and government jobs higher network admins in the low 40-50,000 range to start on up to 70,000 for like police departments. I just missed getting city It job in a small town of 30,000 for 23.00 an hour becasue my expereince was not recent. Corporate big companies usually pay about 60-75,000 for a Network Admin but expect to get asked to be ther after hours allot.
I do allot of solo work like detailing on the side in the 20-30 hr range to get buy when it's wet,cold and raining out.
Hope that helps
The key with any IT job is how much experience you have along with the certs/degrees. In the industry, people who are certs and education without any relevant experience are known as "paper tigers."
However, what exactly do you want to get your experience in? Development? Database Administration? Technical Support? Help Desk? Once you answer those questions, we can point you in the right direction.
However, what exactly do you want to get your experience in? Development? Database Administration? Technical Support? Help Desk? Once you answer those questions, we can point you in the right direction.
I got my start back in '93 doing Desktop Support and Help Desk at the Junior College I was attending at the time. It was only a part-time Student Job
I had already been building bare bones systems and writing Cobol and RPG programs for years before that so one day I was just goofing off in one of the Computer Labs and the IT Director saw I had some talent and asked me if I wanted a job.
When I transferred to University in another town in '97 I got a job as a Systems Engineer with a company (doing installs and providing support) and got bumped up to $35K.
I bounced around to a few other positions similar till I finally got to the place I'm at now in my Senior Year in 2000 and am the Network Administrator pulling close to $70K. And yes I'm on Salary and on call basically whenever it's not 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM Monday - Friday (weekend's and holiday's personal/vacation days included)
I have no certifications but a 2 year degree in Electrical Engineering and a B.S in Telecommunications Engineering. That with over a decade of experience gets me by nicely.
Back in the early days you had to know your stuff, then that tech bubble hit and people were getting certified without ever seeing a Server or having worked on a Network before and getting paid big time.
What soon became evident was that they always had to call in someone else to do anything that wasn't in the certification books they studied so that mostly came to an end when the Tech Bubble burst.
Now things have sorta switched to you need experience to get the jobs (like it was back in the day) but I'll tell you something.
People who hire technical staff and are technically inclined themselves will always look for experience and education over some silly certificate.
People who aren't technically qualified and do the hiring will look more for the certifications as they have no other means to establish a baseline as to your qualifications.
If you want to go the Cert route I would start with A+, Networking+, and work towards your MCSE. You wont be any more special than the hundreds of thousands of other people who already have them (your talent and skills will make that distinction) but at least you can get your resume seen.
MorBiD
I had already been building bare bones systems and writing Cobol and RPG programs for years before that so one day I was just goofing off in one of the Computer Labs and the IT Director saw I had some talent and asked me if I wanted a job.
When I transferred to University in another town in '97 I got a job as a Systems Engineer with a company (doing installs and providing support) and got bumped up to $35K.
I bounced around to a few other positions similar till I finally got to the place I'm at now in my Senior Year in 2000 and am the Network Administrator pulling close to $70K. And yes I'm on Salary and on call basically whenever it's not 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM Monday - Friday (weekend's and holiday's personal/vacation days included)
I have no certifications but a 2 year degree in Electrical Engineering and a B.S in Telecommunications Engineering. That with over a decade of experience gets me by nicely.
Back in the early days you had to know your stuff, then that tech bubble hit and people were getting certified without ever seeing a Server or having worked on a Network before and getting paid big time.
What soon became evident was that they always had to call in someone else to do anything that wasn't in the certification books they studied so that mostly came to an end when the Tech Bubble burst.
Now things have sorta switched to you need experience to get the jobs (like it was back in the day) but I'll tell you something.
People who hire technical staff and are technically inclined themselves will always look for experience and education over some silly certificate.
People who aren't technically qualified and do the hiring will look more for the certifications as they have no other means to establish a baseline as to your qualifications.
If you want to go the Cert route I would start with A+, Networking+, and work towards your MCSE. You wont be any more special than the hundreds of thousands of other people who already have them (your talent and skills will make that distinction) but at least you can get your resume seen.
MorBiD
Thanks alot for the help everyone!
Prinz - I would like to get experience in stuff like Network Administration, and I dont know the proper term, but basically fix things when they dont work, someone cant logon, cant find their files, password doesnt work, vid card is shot, i believe thats all network admin stuff....??
Do you think starting with A+ is the way to go??
My goal is to work at a nice office and be the "network" guy, making some nice money to support a family.
Thanks again
Jim
Prinz - I would like to get experience in stuff like Network Administration, and I dont know the proper term, but basically fix things when they dont work, someone cant logon, cant find their files, password doesnt work, vid card is shot, i believe thats all network admin stuff....??
Do you think starting with A+ is the way to go??
My goal is to work at a nice office and be the "network" guy, making some nice money to support a family.
Thanks again
Jim
The A+ and Net+ are put out by Comptia ,comptia.org? Look at totalsem.com for some good material and computer forums. Be advised the A+ test will change this June or July, so get current material.
CompTIA A+® Certification
Total Seminars: Home
CompTIA A+® Certification
Total Seminars: Home
imported_paradigm
New member
that is pretty much level 1 support...help desk responsibilities. there are varying degrees of what a help desk will do. some places have a help desk that only answers a phone, opens a ticket, and escalates to the next team. other companies (like mine) have the help desk do much more...everything up to building servers and working with cisco routers/switches, etc.
i worked on a help desk for 4 years and then moved on to being a network engineer. i went from doing desktop support, a/v support, etc on to network admin, some design, and more project based work.
as others said above, certs are great to get past the HR department's "filter"...that'll get you a phone interview and/or a first face-to-face interview. after that, you need to prove yourself. if you do not have experience, expect to work on a help desk and start from the bottom...pay your dues...volunteer for anything and everything and learn as much as you can.
i'm very fortunate that my company greatly promotes training and certs. i have a great training budget and pretty much can go to anything i want if time allows (which is becoming more and more difficult). i have my A+, Security+, and MCSE 2003. i'd say i've fogotten 50%+ of whati learned for the exams...hands on means much more.
.02
Thanks for the input paradigm!
when you say start at the bottom on a help desk, what exactly do you mean? does every company have a help desk??
Any suggestions of where to start, should i even consider starting to get certs, or start applying for "help desk" jobs.
Im sorry im very new at this.
Thanks
Jim
when you say start at the bottom on a help desk, what exactly do you mean? does every company have a help desk??
Any suggestions of where to start, should i even consider starting to get certs, or start applying for "help desk" jobs.
Im sorry im very new at this.
Thanks
Jim
kleraudio said:
A little about me:
I have been in Help Desk/Technical Support for 6+ years and I have supported both Mac and IBM systems. As for certs, I am in the process of getting my MCSE (Win Server 2003/Exchange 2003) and MCDBA (SQL Server 2000). As for my experience, I started with Macs in 1988 and it grew from there.
If you are in college, I would definitely suggest working with your school's IT department to get your feet wet.
As for the A+, it is the way to go because it gives you the foundation for what you need in the industry. Additionally, many places will not look at you w/o the cert because some of their vendors (e.g. Dell) require that techs have the cert before they can repair their systems. As paradigm said, start with the A+ and then go to the Network+, Server+ and MCSE.
If you are interested in taking those classes, check out your local community college or technical school. For my cert classes, I went to Computer Training Chicago, Chicago Computer Consulting, Training Room Rentals in Chicago but also looked at Moraine Valley Community College because they had some other certs I was interested in (e.g. Certified Ethical Hacker).
Hey thanks alot fot the help again everyone. I plan on picking up the A+ book this weekend, and taking the test in a month or two.
If i want to pursue a bachelors in the IT field, is the AA in Computer Information Systems the first step??
If so, what kind of bachelors would you guys suggest? The adviser at the comm. college said i should get the AA in CIS??
I dunno...
thanks again in advance
Jim
If i want to pursue a bachelors in the IT field, is the AA in Computer Information Systems the first step??
If so, what kind of bachelors would you guys suggest? The adviser at the comm. college said i should get the AA in CIS??
I dunno...
thanks again in advance
Jim
Comp Sci is a tough nut to crack. Most people who take that as a major are going for Programming or software design and development.
The University I went to had a Information Tech program (ridiculously simple if you ask me) but it was more in-line for what you've been describing.
MorBiD
The University I went to had a Information Tech program (ridiculously simple if you ask me) but it was more in-line for what you've been describing.
MorBiD
My Almater has a Associates, Bachelors, and Masters Degree in almost every Engineering or Engineering Tech program
Visit Rochester Institute of Technology's Programs of Study and scroll down to where it says College of Computing and Information Sciences.
Under that listing you will see
Information Technology MS
Information Technology BS
Information Technology AAS
Click on one to get the info and the course requirements. Computer Science is there too.
Looks like they added a new program since I left, Applied Networking and System Administration. Glad to see my money from the Alumni Assoc is not going to waste.
The really great thing about my school was that Co-Op is part of your program (that means you have times during each year where instead of going to class you go to work and they help you find a job. So it's not just a internship. Most get their job offers from the places they went to Co-Op.
So you will have at least a year's experience under your belt when you make it to the big stage a G-Day.
Greg
Visit Rochester Institute of Technology's Programs of Study and scroll down to where it says College of Computing and Information Sciences.
Under that listing you will see
Information Technology MS
Information Technology BS
Information Technology AAS
Click on one to get the info and the course requirements. Computer Science is there too.
Looks like they added a new program since I left, Applied Networking and System Administration. Glad to see my money from the Alumni Assoc is not going to waste.
The really great thing about my school was that Co-Op is part of your program (that means you have times during each year where instead of going to class you go to work and they help you find a job. So it's not just a internship. Most get their job offers from the places they went to Co-Op.
So you will have at least a year's experience under your belt when you make it to the big stage a G-Day.
Greg
Hey Morbid, thanks for the help! I checked out my local University, they offer a BS in IT! It is a remote campus, kind of far from the house but it may be worth it.
it says i need an AA to get into this program. I wanted to take the AS/AAS in IT and then get into the BS in IT program, but i think i have to go the AA in Computer Information Systems to get into this program.
is that what you had to do, or were you able to get your AS/AAS and use that to get into the BS in IT program??
Thanks for the help again, you have been more helpful in two posts than 10 phone calls to different schools!
I really appreciate it!
it says i need an AA to get into this program. I wanted to take the AS/AAS in IT and then get into the BS in IT program, but i think i have to go the AA in Computer Information Systems to get into this program.
is that what you had to do, or were you able to get your AS/AAS and use that to get into the BS in IT program??
Thanks for the help again, you have been more helpful in two posts than 10 phone calls to different schools!
I really appreciate it!
When I was in Junior College (two year degree AAS) my major was Electrical Enginnering. As it so happened if I had went straight to that 4 year University my first two years would've been in the same thing, Electical Engineering.
So when I transfered into the BS program for Telecommunications Engineering I transferred in as a 3rd year student in a 5 year program (you have to do 1 year co-op).
Basically the way it works is you look at the classes you need to take in the first two years of your 4 year degree and see if the classes from your major in the two year degree will transfer over.
Computer Information Systems (CIS) usually is not the same as Information Technology. You can look at the course requirements for each and see. I would talk to an Admissions Adviser at the school you want to attend for the BS in IT. Their sole reason for being is to "guide" you on what classes/program to take someplace else in order to get the maximum transfer credits into thier program.
That's what my adviser did. Credits transfer based on courses taken not the program in which they were taken.
Usually in Technical Programs if you have a two year degree in the same or related major you can just transfer over to a BS program. As long as the credits transfer. That's the key
So when I transfered into the BS program for Telecommunications Engineering I transferred in as a 3rd year student in a 5 year program (you have to do 1 year co-op).
Basically the way it works is you look at the classes you need to take in the first two years of your 4 year degree and see if the classes from your major in the two year degree will transfer over.
Computer Information Systems (CIS) usually is not the same as Information Technology. You can look at the course requirements for each and see. I would talk to an Admissions Adviser at the school you want to attend for the BS in IT. Their sole reason for being is to "guide" you on what classes/program to take someplace else in order to get the maximum transfer credits into thier program.
That's what my adviser did. Credits transfer based on courses taken not the program in which they were taken.
Usually in Technical Programs if you have a two year degree in the same or related major you can just transfer over to a BS program. As long as the credits transfer. That's the key
hey Morbid, if you wouldnt mind checking this out, i would appreciate it.
Information Technology - USF Lakeland
it says i need an AA degree to transfer which doesnt make sense because the AAS in IT would be more suited to the degree program.
The AAS in IT however doesnt require much gen ed, its more of a technical degree i guess.
I will call the Univ campus that offers that program and try to talk to a more informed adviser because the ones Ive spoken to already really offered no help unless i applied to the school and brought transcripts....
also, do you think it would be wise to get started on my A+/N+ certifications while im not in college just to get a head start?
again, Morbid i REALLY appreciate your help!
Jim
Information Technology - USF Lakeland
it says i need an AA degree to transfer which doesnt make sense because the AAS in IT would be more suited to the degree program.
The AAS in IT however doesnt require much gen ed, its more of a technical degree i guess.
I will call the Univ campus that offers that program and try to talk to a more informed adviser because the ones Ive spoken to already really offered no help unless i applied to the school and brought transcripts....
also, do you think it would be wise to get started on my A+/N+ certifications while im not in college just to get a head start?
again, Morbid i REALLY appreciate your help!
Jim
No probelm I'm glad to help anyone who wants to better themselves.
First off all let me make something clear so there isn't any confusion. I didn't go to College for a Degree in IT. IT was what I was doing to put myself through College. Actually my degree is in the design and implementation of large scale networks like Telephone systems, Transmission systems, Celluar Systems and the like.
As it happens all those things have their basis in Electronics which have their basis in Advanced mathemtics and physics. So that's why my 2 year degree transferred in so nicely to my 4 year one.
I went to that link you gave and they are telling you basically what I stated before. That is if your transferring from a Two Year College you should take the courses on the second page (on the left) in addition to whatever else it is you need to satisfy the requirements for the two year degree.
That's how transferring credits works. You need to have taken classes elsewhere that the college you want to attend will accept towards a degree from their program. If you don't you'll have to take them when you get there.
Don't get too caught up in AS or AAS like in NYS where I live
Associate in Applied Science (A.A.S.): one-third of the work shall be in the liberal arts and sciences.
Associate in Science (A.S.): one-half of the work shall be in the liberal arts and sciences.
Associate in Arts (A.A.): three-quarters of the work shall be in the liberal arts and sciences.
That sucks about those advisers you already spoke to. Up here they are more than willing to help anyone out.
Here's where I come down on Certs. I personally know a dozen people of various ages who spent dough on classes and tests for those Certs and never got a job it IT. I also know many people (some are friends from University) that have a 2 year degree and a few Certs and still can't land a job in IT. I guess what I'm saying is taking tests for the sake of taking tests and thinking that's going to get you a job is 50/50 odds at best.
The industry itself is in a state of flux and has been since the Tech bubble burst. People with no experience can't get any, yet people like me are overly qualified (code for companies don't want to pay that much) and can't get better jobs.
Visit the Job Boards (Monster, Dice, Carrerbuilder, etc) and get a handle on what's available in your area and what it might take to get a job you would like. Entry level today is at least a two year degree, some certs and a few years experience. The more experience you have the less the other two matter in many cases.
Dude I'm not trying to dampen your sprirts because you seem highly motivated. But I can tell you from watching this industry almost daily for years things now aren't going to happen overnight. Grab those Certs if you wan't but I'd be looking to get some experience to back those up.
I would also try to hook up with someone you know who can get you any type of job in the field.
First off all let me make something clear so there isn't any confusion. I didn't go to College for a Degree in IT. IT was what I was doing to put myself through College. Actually my degree is in the design and implementation of large scale networks like Telephone systems, Transmission systems, Celluar Systems and the like.
As it happens all those things have their basis in Electronics which have their basis in Advanced mathemtics and physics. So that's why my 2 year degree transferred in so nicely to my 4 year one.
I went to that link you gave and they are telling you basically what I stated before. That is if your transferring from a Two Year College you should take the courses on the second page (on the left) in addition to whatever else it is you need to satisfy the requirements for the two year degree.
That's how transferring credits works. You need to have taken classes elsewhere that the college you want to attend will accept towards a degree from their program. If you don't you'll have to take them when you get there.
Don't get too caught up in AS or AAS like in NYS where I live
Associate in Applied Science (A.A.S.): one-third of the work shall be in the liberal arts and sciences.
Associate in Science (A.S.): one-half of the work shall be in the liberal arts and sciences.
Associate in Arts (A.A.): three-quarters of the work shall be in the liberal arts and sciences.
That sucks about those advisers you already spoke to. Up here they are more than willing to help anyone out.
Here's where I come down on Certs. I personally know a dozen people of various ages who spent dough on classes and tests for those Certs and never got a job it IT. I also know many people (some are friends from University) that have a 2 year degree and a few Certs and still can't land a job in IT. I guess what I'm saying is taking tests for the sake of taking tests and thinking that's going to get you a job is 50/50 odds at best.
The industry itself is in a state of flux and has been since the Tech bubble burst. People with no experience can't get any, yet people like me are overly qualified (code for companies don't want to pay that much) and can't get better jobs.
Visit the Job Boards (Monster, Dice, Carrerbuilder, etc) and get a handle on what's available in your area and what it might take to get a job you would like. Entry level today is at least a two year degree, some certs and a few years experience. The more experience you have the less the other two matter in many cases.
Dude I'm not trying to dampen your sprirts because you seem highly motivated. But I can tell you from watching this industry almost daily for years things now aren't going to happen overnight. Grab those Certs if you wan't but I'd be looking to get some experience to back those up.
I would also try to hook up with someone you know who can get you any type of job in the field.