First experience with a rotary

Boxilator

New member
Question: What changes to optimum rotary technique would you experienced users recommend to a beginner?



I recently used my Makita 9227C for the first time – other than practice on test panels. Although I was satisfied with the outcome, I didn’t get hologram-free results immediately. As I made adjustments to my technique, I realized that I didn’t know what the trade-offs were. What’s the result of using high speed with very light pressure? I had no idea. Keep in mind that I didn’t care about efficiency, cost, or the amount of work involved; I only cared about acceptable results (no damage, adequate defect removal, and shiny paint). What advice would you give a beginner with such basic goals?



Here’s how it played out:



Car: Black 1994 BMW 325is



I started with Lake Country foamed wool pads and Megs 105. I used 900 rpm on the Makita and planned to do 4 passes on each section. In practice, I often lost track and did 3 – 6 passes and sometimes overlapped previously buffed sections. I have the “new” Megs 105 and working time was not a problem. I expected holograms at this stage and I got them.



I found the foamed wool pads very easy to use. I’m new at this and the foamed wool was easier to keep flat, followed contours better, reached difficult places easier, and cut better than the foam pads I had experimented with for correction (Edge yellow and orange with Megs 105). I found that one application of Megs 105 gave me the correction I wanted. To stay on the safe side, I didn’t go for max correction, even though there is plenty of clearcoat.



I followed the Megs 105 with Megs 205 on a blue Edge foam pad at 1500 rpm per the directions on the container. I was pretty confident when working on the flat surfaces, but I knew that I was doing a poor job on the on the vertical surfaces. When I pulled the car out into the sun to check results after an IPA wipedown, I was disappointed to find substantial holograms; less than from 105, but still more than I expected.



Hoping that the holograms at this stage were typical – rather than crappy work –I broke out the Ultrafina and an Edge white pad and did the hood at 1500 rpm. When I checked for holograms, they were improved, but undeniably still there.



I concluded that the second stage needed to be done again using better technique. When I re-applied the Megs 205 on an Edge blue pad I reduced the speed to 900 rpm, reduced the size of each area, concentrated on keeping the pad flat, and further reduced speed if I necessary to prevent “chatter”. I also took more care to do exactly 4 passes on each section. The results were adequate. There was still some minor hologramming, but I thought it would be corrected by the Ultrafina.



I made some further changes to my technique when doing the 3rd stage with Ultrafina and an Edge white pad. First, I did one complete pass at low speed, then two passes at 900 rpm, and then finished with a final pass at low speed. I also reduced speed and transit time anytime I wasn’t getting the smooth buffer movement that I sought. When I checked in the bright sun, I was pleased – and relieved - to find no holograms. Someone with more experience, or higher standards, may be able to find grams where I didn’t, but I was satisfied. I finished the car with KAIO and 2 coats of KSG. It looks OK for a 15 year old daily driver.
 
For me I tried at lower RPM's when I first started doing corrections, but I soon found that to do what I wanted I needed to step the speed up to about 1500 to 1800 rpm's depending on the hardness of the clear. At least I do for the first 2 steps. When I do my finishing polish though I spread at 1000 rpm, work at about 1500 rpm for a pass with about 15lbs of pressure, then drop to 1200 rpm for a pass, and about 10lbs of pressure, and then 900 to 1000 rpm for a pass with only the weight of the machine to jewel the paint. That works well for me with Menzerna line anyways, haven't used M105/205 yet, but have some samples on the way to play with.



As with most detailers though you will have your own little tweaks with how you like to do things. I'm sure some more of the seasoned guys with the Meg's line can give you a better idea with their products too. But just passing on what I know works for me with my gear.
 
Try using the rotary for the "correction" phase, and then swapping over to the DA, using lighter compound like #80 Speed Glaze.
 
Thanks for the input. The low speed vs adequate correction is a trade-off I encouentered immediately because the clear on my BMW is hard. Also, I'm seriously considering a DA to complement the rotary.



Box
 
Box, IMO you are off to a great start. Your process shows really good judgment. It's also very apparent that you've done a good deal of reading, too.



Newer jet black BMW's are known to have about the softest clear coat around. It makes them a huge PITA to detail, but I haven't worked on a 1994 model. I think people have said that the older bimmers have really hard clear on em.
 
Yeah, Superbee, this old Bimmer has real hard clear. A light cut pad with 105 had very little effect on it, but the foamed wool was excellent. You know, I don't want to do 10 stages with a fine polish just to be ultra-conservative, but I'm perfectly happy doing a 3rd stage where others get equally good results with only 1 or 2 stages. My next job is the car I really care about and it is silver. I'm hoping that my satisfactory results on the black car can be duplicated on the siver one. We'll see.
 
With 205 being a Uni-Grit polish it should not hologram, maybe you were working a large area? I read you did 4 Passes, when I finish paint I typically will use Menz 106ff or P085RD for 10 or more passes. I spread for a bit a 600, work at 900, work for a couple of passes at 1200, then back to 900, then I will do multiple passes at 600 to level the paint. I hope this helps, I have no experience with the new Megs stuff. I am sure you will get the hang of it though!
 
Boxilator said:
Yeah, Superbee, this old Bimmer has real hard clear. A light cut pad with 105 had very little effect on it, but the foamed wool was excellent. You know, I don't want to do 10 stages with a fine polish just to be ultra-conservative, but I'm perfectly happy doing a 3rd stage where others get equally good results with only 1 or 2 stages. My next job is the car I really care about and it is silver. I'm hoping that my satisfactory results on the black car can be duplicated on the siver one. We'll see.



Excellent... Pics when you get a chance? :)



Aesop F1 said:
With 205 being a Uni-Grit polish it should not hologram, maybe you were working a large area? I read you did 4 Passes, when I finish paint I typically will use Menz 106ff or P085RD for 10 or more passes. I spread for a bit a 600, work at 900, work for a couple of passes at 1200, then back to 900, then I will do multiple passes at 600 to level the paint. I hope this helps, I have no experience with the new Megs stuff. I am sure you will get the hang of it though!



There was a thread about this around May or so. Greg Nichols and I had had some problems with 205 gramming like crazy on all but the hardest paints. The only cars we could get 205 to finish out gram free on (rotary) were a Black C5, and my Charger. Everything else (and we tried many cars) left grams regardless of pad and technique.



Megs read the posts about this, and called me. Talk about a customer service and product quality centered company....wow.



At this point, all I can say (I promised Megs I wouldn't say anything) is that Megs is aware of it and working hard to correct it.



In the mean time, if you're getting frustrated by 205 gramming with a rotary, switch over to a DA and no bite pad. Not only will it clean up the grams, but it'll leave a very nice finish.
 
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