Langley Interior Car Kare
New member
lets see how long before i get sick of it....no offese to the marshal...just its too much work to keep changing to make it current...puter has that down to a science...but for now...i like it,......:up
finally.....SUCCESS!!!!!!!
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Chuckmotor
New member
How exactly do swirls occur? What causes them? What's the best treatment and prevention?
I'm new to this stuff, but I'm desperately trying to learn! I've always loved cars and keeping mine clean, but not until reciently have I discovered the joys of detailing. In advance, thanks!
I'm new to this stuff, but I'm desperately trying to learn! I've always loved cars and keeping mine clean, but not until reciently have I discovered the joys of detailing. In advance, thanks!
i'd say 90% of swirls comes from washing
and it's not that people wash badly it's that its very difficult to get a car clean and completely swirl free when their is dirt on it.
sometimes the "used" parts of the car get swirls, like handles and any places where you can rub against like the trunk
as for waxing, we all wax in linear motions, so swirls are not from them
we all wax our cars when they are prestine (not to mention we use linear motion) so if a novice get's swirls from waxing it's usually due to bad washing technique
use the two bucket method with a good 100% cotton wash mitt with lots of soap, get two if you need to do the lower panels. start with your HRT then move on the front, back and lower panels (HRT, is hood roof trunk btw
) Rinsing a lot! in your second bucket or the hose
rinse your car off with a sprayless nozzle and carefully dry your car with something safe like a microfiber and use quickdetailer for lubrication.
hth- steve, welcome to the forum! (btw, i'm on capitalization strike)
and it's not that people wash badly it's that its very difficult to get a car clean and completely swirl free when their is dirt on it.
sometimes the "used" parts of the car get swirls, like handles and any places where you can rub against like the trunk
as for waxing, we all wax in linear motions, so swirls are not from them
we all wax our cars when they are prestine (not to mention we use linear motion) so if a novice get's swirls from waxing it's usually due to bad washing technique
use the two bucket method with a good 100% cotton wash mitt with lots of soap, get two if you need to do the lower panels. start with your HRT then move on the front, back and lower panels (HRT, is hood roof trunk btw
) Rinsing a lot! in your second bucket or the hoserinse your car off with a sprayless nozzle and carefully dry your car with something safe like a microfiber and use quickdetailer for lubrication.
hth- steve, welcome to the forum! (btw, i'm on capitalization strike
)Chuckmotor
New member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by YoSteve.Com [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>rinse your car off with a sprayless nozzle and carefully dry your car with something safe like a microfiber and use quickdetailer for lubrication.[/b]</blockquote>
How do I use a quickdetailer for lubrication?
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by YoSteve.Com [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>rinse your car off with a sprayless nozzle and carefully dry your car with something safe like a microfiber and use quickdetailer for lubrication.[/b]</blockquote>
How do I use a quickdetailer for lubrication?
Steve is probably correct. I would also venture to say that most swirls come during the washing stage. As for quick detailing, its a safe idea to lightly mist the microfiber towel and the surface of your car as you're quick detailing. Quick detailing after drying your car will help you ensure that you don't get water spots
my companies black magic passat has no swirls (a few scratches and chips) it's a '98, but it's probably never been washed let alone waxed
when you dry your car, it sorta seems "rough" as towels can "grab" and adding a couple of sprays of QD on your towel and your paint, makes it easier in a friction sense, but also prevents streaking and spotting. The QD evaporates than water and lays down some shine, while the towel absorbs the water.
when you dry your car, it sorta seems "rough" as towels can "grab" and adding a couple of sprays of QD on your towel and your paint, makes it easier in a friction sense, but also prevents streaking and spotting. The QD evaporates than water and lays down some shine, while the towel absorbs the water.
ISLANDSBEST
New member
I agree with Don, Steve, et al (fancy talk for "and others"). It's probably during washing that a lot of swirls occur. I think Steve nailed it -- the problem is you don't want to rub the paint when it is dirty, but washing usually involves rubbing a dirty car. If it was not dirty, there would be no need to wash it! A classical Catch 22. Here is how I try to get around the Catch 22. A part of this was previously posted to the "car wash" thread:
Washing a car requires a strict regime to avoid damage, as we all know. This is because any time you rub the paint you are at risk. I feel that whenever you are about to rub the paint, you should know why you aren’t about to damage the paint.
For me, this means I have to get as much dirt as possible off the car before I touch the paint. I rinse with a hose. I then spray using a hose attachment that mixes car shampoo in with the water. I rinse again.
My purpose for the actual washing (mitt to paint) is to remove film, smudges, etc., not dirt particles. The last thing I want to do is to try to rub off dirt particles, large or small. That is just going to abrade the paint. I do not wash in circles. I wash up and down, just like I was applying sealant.
Even with this 'pre-wash' technique, frequent and thorough rinsing of the mitt is vital. I feel that rinsing when you can see the dirt is too late. I assume that if you can see the dirt, it means you have already been rubbing the paint with a dirty mitt. I use a three bucket system -- adds about ten extra seconds to the rinse process.
I follow two earlier steps that I believe are key to the process:
a. I don't let the car get too dirty to begin with and,
b. if it does get dirty (despite garaging and covering), I don't let dirt get "caked and baked" on to the car.
The two points above mean:
1. keeping the car garaged and covered when parked out of the garage, and
2. checking-out the car when you come out from a store, etc., to see if you have any bird bombs or other contaminants on the paint (takes ten seconds) and removing them right then before they have a chance to set or dry on the paint. Now, in bad weather, mud, etc., it takes a lot more work to use this approach. I live in LA. If I lived in NY, I know the above appoach would be challenging and it might have to be modified.
Using the above approach does not mean fully washing the car everyday. It involves regular QDing to remove very light stuff and <em class='bbc'>spot washing[/i] to remove anything heavy. In this way, the car never gets real dirty to begin with and no dirt is allowed to set up, therefore when I do a full wash the swirl risk is reduced.
Spot washing involves carefully removing mud splashes, etc. immediately, before they harden and while they can be rinsed off. I think time is the key. Fresh dirt usually comes off easily and pretty safely. I suspect it's the encrusted stuff that leads to swirling as you scrub to remove it.
Now, if something has dried, if I did not get to it quickly enough, I try to hose off the junk with pressure. If that does not work, I let it soak in a sprayed-on shampoo solution. I call this a 'spot wash.' It's not QDing, because you don't QD a truly dirty car.
I just assume that if I have to forcefully rub, there is a significant chance I am about to damage the paint -- maybe a lot, or maybe just a tiny bit, but something. So I spot wash or QD depending on what is on the surface of the paint. Anything dried or gritty gets spot washed. Smudgy stuff or light dust, I QD. I just use common sense: "if I QD this instead of spot wash, will I run the risk of swirling the paint? Smudges, no problem, I'll QD with a little QD spray. Light dust, thin atmospheric fallout, OK, I'll carefully QD with lots of QD spraying for lubrication and pay close attention to my towel and the paint. Anything heavier and its a spot wash BEFORE the dirt can set up. Anthing that has set up, it's a soak and a spot wash."
The above sounds like a lot of work, but with the materials in the trunk, and the problem addressed right when you first see it, the dirt cleans up very quickly (as it has not set up). I SAVE time using this approach as the time to the next full wash is extended.
And, I believe that I reduce the chances of swirling, because when I do give the car a full wash, I am washing a smudgy car, not a dirt encrusted car. An added benefit is that the car looks great, all the time.
As I touched on, I know those in different climates may have trouble following this full routine, particularly in winter, but I think the general principles apply universally. For me, those principles are:
1. Try to avoid contaminents in the first place by garaging, covering, not parking under trees, etc.
2. If you do pick up contaminents, try to remove contaminents before they dry or set. QD or spot wash as appropriate.
3. If the contaminents are set, do a soak and a spot wash. Rinse if appropriate and possible. I then soak the dirt in appropriate liquid (car shampoo in most cases) first to soften the dirt, lubricate it, and reduce the amount of rubbing needed. I then try to rinse the dirt off. I repeat this process. Still no luck, I will carefully rub the shampoo-soaked dirt. I don't have to be at home to do this (by the time I get home, the dirt, bird bombs, etc. can set -- particularly if they are on the hood, where the engine heat will bake them on, a terrible thing). I have spray bottles of distilled water and car shampoo mixed with distilled water in the trunk, with towels. If I am near home and its not on the hood, I might wait and just go home them handle it. It's a judgement call.
4. QD regularly between regular washing and spot washings.
5. Ideally, full washings are to remove film, smudges, etc. only. Failing that, when we have (naughty, naughty) let the car go or been unlucky.
6. If we have let the car go or we are unlucky, the full washing should start with attempts to remove as much dirt as possible without rubbing.
Washing a car requires a strict regime to avoid damage, as we all know. This is because any time you rub the paint you are at risk. I feel that whenever you are about to rub the paint, you should know why you aren’t about to damage the paint.
For me, this means I have to get as much dirt as possible off the car before I touch the paint. I rinse with a hose. I then spray using a hose attachment that mixes car shampoo in with the water. I rinse again.
My purpose for the actual washing (mitt to paint) is to remove film, smudges, etc., not dirt particles. The last thing I want to do is to try to rub off dirt particles, large or small. That is just going to abrade the paint. I do not wash in circles. I wash up and down, just like I was applying sealant.
Even with this 'pre-wash' technique, frequent and thorough rinsing of the mitt is vital. I feel that rinsing when you can see the dirt is too late. I assume that if you can see the dirt, it means you have already been rubbing the paint with a dirty mitt. I use a three bucket system -- adds about ten extra seconds to the rinse process.
I follow two earlier steps that I believe are key to the process:
a. I don't let the car get too dirty to begin with and,
b. if it does get dirty (despite garaging and covering), I don't let dirt get "caked and baked" on to the car.
The two points above mean:
1. keeping the car garaged and covered when parked out of the garage, and
2. checking-out the car when you come out from a store, etc., to see if you have any bird bombs or other contaminants on the paint (takes ten seconds) and removing them right then before they have a chance to set or dry on the paint. Now, in bad weather, mud, etc., it takes a lot more work to use this approach. I live in LA. If I lived in NY, I know the above appoach would be challenging and it might have to be modified.
Using the above approach does not mean fully washing the car everyday. It involves regular QDing to remove very light stuff and <em class='bbc'>spot washing[/i] to remove anything heavy. In this way, the car never gets real dirty to begin with and no dirt is allowed to set up, therefore when I do a full wash the swirl risk is reduced.
Spot washing involves carefully removing mud splashes, etc. immediately, before they harden and while they can be rinsed off. I think time is the key. Fresh dirt usually comes off easily and pretty safely. I suspect it's the encrusted stuff that leads to swirling as you scrub to remove it.
Now, if something has dried, if I did not get to it quickly enough, I try to hose off the junk with pressure. If that does not work, I let it soak in a sprayed-on shampoo solution. I call this a 'spot wash.' It's not QDing, because you don't QD a truly dirty car.
I just assume that if I have to forcefully rub, there is a significant chance I am about to damage the paint -- maybe a lot, or maybe just a tiny bit, but something. So I spot wash or QD depending on what is on the surface of the paint. Anything dried or gritty gets spot washed. Smudgy stuff or light dust, I QD. I just use common sense: "if I QD this instead of spot wash, will I run the risk of swirling the paint? Smudges, no problem, I'll QD with a little QD spray. Light dust, thin atmospheric fallout, OK, I'll carefully QD with lots of QD spraying for lubrication and pay close attention to my towel and the paint. Anything heavier and its a spot wash BEFORE the dirt can set up. Anthing that has set up, it's a soak and a spot wash."
The above sounds like a lot of work, but with the materials in the trunk, and the problem addressed right when you first see it, the dirt cleans up very quickly (as it has not set up). I SAVE time using this approach as the time to the next full wash is extended.
And, I believe that I reduce the chances of swirling, because when I do give the car a full wash, I am washing a smudgy car, not a dirt encrusted car. An added benefit is that the car looks great, all the time.
As I touched on, I know those in different climates may have trouble following this full routine, particularly in winter, but I think the general principles apply universally. For me, those principles are:
1. Try to avoid contaminents in the first place by garaging, covering, not parking under trees, etc.
2. If you do pick up contaminents, try to remove contaminents before they dry or set. QD or spot wash as appropriate.
3. If the contaminents are set, do a soak and a spot wash. Rinse if appropriate and possible. I then soak the dirt in appropriate liquid (car shampoo in most cases) first to soften the dirt, lubricate it, and reduce the amount of rubbing needed. I then try to rinse the dirt off. I repeat this process. Still no luck, I will carefully rub the shampoo-soaked dirt. I don't have to be at home to do this (by the time I get home, the dirt, bird bombs, etc. can set -- particularly if they are on the hood, where the engine heat will bake them on, a terrible thing). I have spray bottles of distilled water and car shampoo mixed with distilled water in the trunk, with towels. If I am near home and its not on the hood, I might wait and just go home them handle it. It's a judgement call.
4. QD regularly between regular washing and spot washings.
5. Ideally, full washings are to remove film, smudges, etc. only. Failing that, when we have (naughty, naughty) let the car go or been unlucky.
6. If we have let the car go or we are unlucky, the full washing should start with attempts to remove as much dirt as possible without rubbing.
Langley Interior Car Kare
New member
:up
one this I love doing is when my car get's rained on all day, and the it softens up all the dirt I just go home and it rinses off 99% of the solid particles really easily (because it's been wet all day)
then when I get home i put a little soap to the already soaked paint and it comes of so clean
excellent post darbh
then when I get home i put a little soap to the already soaked paint and it comes of so clean
excellent post darbh
ISLANDSBEST
New member
Steve, FLONI, Showroom and Don, I really appreciate your acknowledgements, particularly coming from such knowledgeble, perceptive and good people. Don, a special thanks.
You and the many like you on this site is what makes this forum special.
You and the many like you on this site is what makes this forum special.
ISLANDSBEST
New member
Thanks, again.
<strong class='bbc'>darbh[/b] I read your post with great interest. You employ methods that are pretty intense.
I have been, for the last two years, employing some similar washing methods to reduce the possibility of introducing swirls and/or scratches.
1) I employ the principle that you can never use enough water. If you try to conserve water, you might as well deliberately scratch the paint. How much water is enough? It's not that much of a stretch to say it's never enough.
2) Keeping that in mind, I fill two five gallon buckets: One with water and Meguiar's #00 Wash, and the second with plain water to rince the wash mitt <strong class='bbc'>after each and every time I wash a panel[/b].
3) I clean all the glass before washing the car with an automotive glass cleaner, and paper towels.
4) I clean the wheels next with one of Meguiar's wheel cleaners, and lots and lots of water.
5) I then hose the entire car from top to bottom, BEFORE washing the car, at least twice. I actually started using Meguiar's #7 Showcar Glaze to remove road tar about ten years ago, and it works really well. Lubricates like crazy to minimize any chance of scratching the pait, and the solvents dissolve most road tar.
6) I start washing from the roof down. Using a 100% cotton wash mitt, I soak it in the car wash & water bucket first, wash half the roof, and then rince and wringe out the mitt in the plain water bucket. I rince each section as I wash. The other half of the roof gets the same treatment, then the glass, hood, and trunk lid next, doing one section at a time, and rincing the mitt each time. The grill & front bumper, tail lights & rear bumper get cleaned next, adn then each fender, door and quarter panel get cleaned one at a time.
7) I then rince the entire car again, turn the nozzle to the "soak" position, and then pour water over the whole car again.
8) While it's still wet, I spray the whole car down with Final Inspection. I've been doing this in case I miss a small spot of dirt on a panel, and I don't want to drag that dirt across the paint with just water.
9)I dry the car with LOTS of towels. I use two at a time. One soaks up most of the water, and the second one (in the other hand) finsihes the drying.
10) I then spray the whole car with Final Inspection again, and wipe it down with fresh towels.
11) I then finish the glass with either Prolong Waterless Wash & Shine or Amsoil Miricle Wash. This has been the only way I found to get the glass clean of road film and car exhaust residue (from sitting in traffic jams, but that's another story....). This has also extended the life of the Rain-x type products I use on the glass.
My neighbors think I'm nuts, along with some members of my extended family, but since my cars always look better than theirs, I must be doing something right!!
I have been, for the last two years, employing some similar washing methods to reduce the possibility of introducing swirls and/or scratches.
1) I employ the principle that you can never use enough water. If you try to conserve water, you might as well deliberately scratch the paint. How much water is enough? It's not that much of a stretch to say it's never enough.
2) Keeping that in mind, I fill two five gallon buckets: One with water and Meguiar's #00 Wash, and the second with plain water to rince the wash mitt <strong class='bbc'>after each and every time I wash a panel[/b].
3) I clean all the glass before washing the car with an automotive glass cleaner, and paper towels.
4) I clean the wheels next with one of Meguiar's wheel cleaners, and lots and lots of water.
5) I then hose the entire car from top to bottom, BEFORE washing the car, at least twice. I actually started using Meguiar's #7 Showcar Glaze to remove road tar about ten years ago, and it works really well. Lubricates like crazy to minimize any chance of scratching the pait, and the solvents dissolve most road tar.
6) I start washing from the roof down. Using a 100% cotton wash mitt, I soak it in the car wash & water bucket first, wash half the roof, and then rince and wringe out the mitt in the plain water bucket. I rince each section as I wash. The other half of the roof gets the same treatment, then the glass, hood, and trunk lid next, doing one section at a time, and rincing the mitt each time. The grill & front bumper, tail lights & rear bumper get cleaned next, adn then each fender, door and quarter panel get cleaned one at a time.
7) I then rince the entire car again, turn the nozzle to the "soak" position, and then pour water over the whole car again.
8) While it's still wet, I spray the whole car down with Final Inspection. I've been doing this in case I miss a small spot of dirt on a panel, and I don't want to drag that dirt across the paint with just water.
9)I dry the car with LOTS of towels. I use two at a time. One soaks up most of the water, and the second one (in the other hand) finsihes the drying.
10) I then spray the whole car with Final Inspection again, and wipe it down with fresh towels.
11) I then finish the glass with either Prolong Waterless Wash & Shine or Amsoil Miricle Wash. This has been the only way I found to get the glass clean of road film and car exhaust residue (from sitting in traffic jams, but that's another story....). This has also extended the life of the Rain-x type products I use on the glass.
My neighbors think I'm nuts, along with some members of my extended family, but since my cars always look better than theirs, I must be doing something right!!
Len_A, thanks for sharing your approach, I always like to read them and get new ideas. There are a couple of things you do that have me wondering though...
1) Why clean the windows before washing? My thinking is that your car wash soap and soft mitt would be less abrasive and remove most junk. Given your thorough regiment, I would think you could skip that step and still get the same results.
2) Wheel cleaner for every wash? A good coat of wax would help avoid having to use the cleaner each and every time, only a sponge would be required.
3) The idea of using Final Inspection just prior to drying is a neat idea, which I plan to try, thanks for that one!
RH
1) Why clean the windows before washing? My thinking is that your car wash soap and soft mitt would be less abrasive and remove most junk. Given your thorough regiment, I would think you could skip that step and still get the same results.
2) Wheel cleaner for every wash? A good coat of wax would help avoid having to use the cleaner each and every time, only a sponge would be required.
3) The idea of using Final Inspection just prior to drying is a neat idea, which I plan to try, thanks for that one!
RH
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by RH [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Len_A, thanks for sharing your approach, I always like to read them and get new ideas. There are a couple of things you do that have me wondering though...
1) Why clean the windows before washing? My thinking is that your car wash soap and soft mitt would be less abrasive and remove most junk. Given your thorough regiment, I would think you could skip that step and still get the same results.
2) Wheel cleaner for every wash? A good coat of wax would help avoid having to use the cleaner each and every time, only a sponge would be required.
3) The idea of using Final Inspection just prior to drying is a neat idea, which I plan to try, thanks for that one!
RH [/b]</blockquote>
<strong class='bbc'>RH [/b] - thanks for your comments. Here's some answers to your questions:
1) We've had some darn much road construction and road patching jobs around here in the Detroit, MI area, for the last four or five years, that the windshields of our cars always have some kind of tar or oil residue on them. Some I think is from road tar, and some is from being stuck behind some leaking, beelching diesel rig of a construction truck. When I've resorted to just teh mitt and soap/water, all I get is smeared windows. I've even resorted to precleaning the windows with Prolong Waterless Wash & Shine or Amsoil Miricle Wash to get that crude off of there. Anything else seems to result in smeared windows.
2) I do give the wheels a good coat of Meguiar's No. 20, but all this stop and go driving generates a lot of brake dust, and I can't seem to get it out of the nooks & crannies of out aluminum wheels without the wheel cleaner. A step I would love to skip. Again, here sometimes I've resorted to either the Prolong Waterless Wash & Shine or Amsoil Miricle Wash, lots of rags, and about 15 minutes per wheel. Just to avoid using the wheel cleaner. What a pain.
3) The use of Final Inspection while the car is still wet seems to lengthen the life of the wax, and reduce any water spots. Then again, it could just be my imagination. Try it out and tell me what you think. You're welcome for this one.
Later!!!
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by RH [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Len_A, thanks for sharing your approach, I always like to read them and get new ideas. There are a couple of things you do that have me wondering though...
1) Why clean the windows before washing? My thinking is that your car wash soap and soft mitt would be less abrasive and remove most junk. Given your thorough regiment, I would think you could skip that step and still get the same results.
2) Wheel cleaner for every wash? A good coat of wax would help avoid having to use the cleaner each and every time, only a sponge would be required.
3) The idea of using Final Inspection just prior to drying is a neat idea, which I plan to try, thanks for that one!
RH [/b]</blockquote>
<strong class='bbc'>RH [/b] - thanks for your comments. Here's some answers to your questions:
1) We've had some darn much road construction and road patching jobs around here in the Detroit, MI area, for the last four or five years, that the windshields of our cars always have some kind of tar or oil residue on them. Some I think is from road tar, and some is from being stuck behind some leaking, beelching diesel rig of a construction truck. When I've resorted to just teh mitt and soap/water, all I get is smeared windows. I've even resorted to precleaning the windows with Prolong Waterless Wash & Shine or Amsoil Miricle Wash to get that crude off of there. Anything else seems to result in smeared windows.
2) I do give the wheels a good coat of Meguiar's No. 20, but all this stop and go driving generates a lot of brake dust, and I can't seem to get it out of the nooks & crannies of out aluminum wheels without the wheel cleaner. A step I would love to skip. Again, here sometimes I've resorted to either the Prolong Waterless Wash & Shine or Amsoil Miricle Wash, lots of rags, and about 15 minutes per wheel. Just to avoid using the wheel cleaner. What a pain.
3) The use of Final Inspection while the car is still wet seems to lengthen the life of the wax, and reduce any water spots. Then again, it could just be my imagination. Try it out and tell me what you think. You're welcome for this one.
Later!!!