Etching Reappearing After Full Detail

tkr128

tkr128

New member
Hi Everybody! It`s been a long time since I`ve been active here, I`m glad to see some familiar names still posting here! I still keep up with the new products and techniques that have evolved over the years, but haven`t been much into detailing since life has thrown many things my way.

I recently had some time off, so I decided to detail my car as it`s been in need of some work with swirls, water spots and etching from bird droppings. I did a wash, IronX, clay, rinse, 2-step correction (Jescar Correcting Compound with Meguair`s MF cutting pad, followed by M205 on a RUPES white pad). The finish looked great at this point with no swirls or etching. After confirming the paint was still looking good under a bunch of different lights, I followed up with two passes with Eraser before coating it with Gyeon Syncro (3 coats of MOHS + 1 coat of Skin). The car looked great at this point, so good that I didn`t drive it for 2 weeks because I didn`t want to get it dirty (yes, I`m a little crazy). It stayed looking great the whole time it was parked in my garage. Fast forward to today, I decided to take the car to work and parked it outside all day. When I came back to it in the evening, all of the etching had reappeared. I`m super frustrated at this point because I thought I had made sure everything was perfect before coating it. I`m guessing the paint didn`t heat up enough for all the etching to appear after my correction step? I went a little aggressive with the compounding step and thought that would have been enough, but I guess that is not the case. I`m looking for ways to fix the magically heat-activated etching. Obviously I would have to abrade the coating off to get to the etching. I`ve been looking into getting IR lamps to heat up the paint while correcting it to make sure all the etching comes to the surface. Are there any recommendations on this approach? Should I attempt another method like CarPro Spotless? I`d appreciate the advice of the forum. Thanks!
 
The etching was deeper than you thought. After the sun heated up the paint, they came back to the surface. When we coat a car that has the same issues, after cutting, we bake under it lamps to be assured the defects are gone. Only thing to do is start over, let the car sit in the sun and correct again if needed. Kevin Brown has a good article on why this happens.
 
Mike lambert said:
I think you can find it on his site. If not just call or text him, he’s more than willing to help you out.
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I don`t want to bother Kevin, I just wanted to read the article...something tells me if he wrote an article, it was so he didn`t have to keep explaining it to people like me on the phone.

Anyway, it`s not on his site.
 
I remember first hearing about it on Larry’s Ammo NYC podcast where he had Kevin on. I think it was episode 30 if that’s a format/presenter you can stand.
 
Ford Technical Service Bulletin #99-12-10 which goes into valid explaination of etching, fallout, rail dust etc may be read at Valugard.net under the Engineers Section. Long read and filled with tech info.
 
Thanks for that link! I’m thinking that procedure was before the dedicated iron and fallout remover products. Also found it interesting they recommended not to remove more than .3 mils!
 
Not all the TSB`s are on the site or those that are, do not go into the depth as the Ford does. Hyundai, Mazda, Nissan do have some of theirs on the site, however Chrysler and Kia also have issued similar to their dealers. The thing to keep in mind is that if the "acids" that created the etching are not removed, over time the introduction of water and heat will reactivate them and the etching will start again.

 
Thanks for the responses! I can`t seem to find an article by Kevin Brown, but I found one by Christopher Brown on OCDCarCare.com titled "Phantom Water Spots Appearing After Ceramic Coating Application". Is this the article that is being referred to? Sounds like I have a lot more work to do.
 
Most of the "acid" etching I have seen comes from one or more of four sources:
1) Tree sap (think pine pitch) or tree seed buds
2) Insect splatter (think grasshoppers or locust)
3) Bird droppings (Robins, seagulls, or goose; take your pick, they all prevalent during warm Wisconsin weather).
4) Acids in the air that mix with rain (think nearby papermills and tall smoke stacks, at least in the `60`s, `70`s, and `80`s in Wisconsin)

Very interesting observation that etching will re-appear if the acid in not totally removed or neutralized in a paint. I assume it is one on the reasons that ValuGard`s three-step decontamination exterior paint cleaning system works well: it has an alkaline cleaner as the second step that not only neutralizes the acid cleaner from the first step, but any natural acids that may contaminate the paint.
 
I’m surprised few of us have the Valugard ABC system on hand for situations like this. It can be a real invaluable tool.
 
Lonnie- Other way around on the components of ABC (not that I think it matters):

-A = Step One = Acid Neutralizing Alakline Product
-B = Step Two = Alkaline Neutralizing Acidic Product
-C = Step 3 = Neutral ph Shampoo

Bill D- Between the hassle of finding it, and those gallon-size jugs....just not geared towards the non-Pro.

IIRC they use to sell smaller bottles with OEM labels, but I dunno if they still do.
 
Yes that is basically the same article. The problem with acids and alkaline products is what do they do to the clear. I’ve never had trouble with cutting and baking. Usually only need to do it once.
 
Interesting thread. I don’t believe I’ve heard of acid etching reappearing. Learned something new. I hope I never run into it.
 
Keep in mind, not just acid etching, waterspots , bird dropping’s and tree sap stains as well as anything that has sat on the surface long enough to penetrate deeply will do the same.
 
Accumulator said:
Lonnie- Other way around on the components of ABC (not that I think it matters):

-A = Step One = Acid Neutralizing Alakline Product
-B = Step Two = Alkaline Neutralizing Acidic Product
-C = Step 3 = Neutral ph Shampoo

Bill D- Between the hassle of finding it, and those gallon-size jugs....just not geared towards the non-Pro.

IIRC they use to sell smaller bottles with OEM labels, but I dunno if they still do.
Click to expand...

Hmm I thought it would be a solvent based cleaner in it too. To desolve tar spots and tree sap and other contaminants. Solvents are ph neutral but don`t know how effective they are to neutralise.

What a nightmare to see the acid residue coming back. Is it actually etching the paint again when they get reactivated? Or is it the acid liquid that comes back up to the surface again?

Would it be an option to use something like distilled water and lay a towel over where the etching or acid is. And have on for a longer time and re-wet it and move the towel to soak up as much as possible. Just thinking out loud. And maybe have it in the sun or get some heat to it or even pour some hot water over the towel.
 
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