Edge 2K Adapter Failure

C

chgoh

New member
Just thought i write this to update the forum on my first experience in using the Edge2K 6" pads today on my car. Bought the pad kit from Superior (which was very prompt in service, I must say).

Anyway, on my second run with the PC on the roof with FP2 (after a first run of IP), the adaptor mechanism work loose and came apart, from all the vibration I guess. I was using a 6" counterweight in stead of the 5" standard. I did noticed that the press-release for the pad was lighter than normal when changing pads to run the FP2, but did not suspect any catastrophic (sp?). Anyway, when the adaptor mechanism worked loose, the internal spring, 3 ball bearings, the press-release cum locking piece, the chrome housing, and the screw-in top, all cam a part during the run. PC dug into the roof and left 4 deep gorges about 1/2 inch long, and the location of the damage were dented, as I was giving the PC some pressure to try get the rain etches out. :realmad:

After that episode, I re-assembled the adaptor (quite easy though), but without some form of lock, it would still "un-screw" itself especially when runnning on speed 6. So I got some Loctite and locked the thread. Anyway on the chrome housing, it said "No Loctite" or something to that effect. So I was a little wary as I continued., constant checking the adaptor part way through any panel to see if the adaptor fix was holding up, which work out quite well through the rest of the 6 hour detailing session. No more fall apart adaptor! :rolleyes:

Not sure if this had been discussed before, but I thought this might be useful to those who are starting out on Edge2K pads.

Well, I would be getting the gorges fixed on Monday, probably going to cost me more than $150 on that. Would probably get them to fix the rain etch marks at the same time too!

chgoh @ 5:05pm, 22Oct2005
 
That makes me pretty warry of using the edge system again. I cant afford to take such a risk especially with customer cars. I would definatly contact edge on this issue.

Greg
 
You had one of possible two failures that will happen to the Edge2000 system at speeds of 5 or higher on a PC. Either the glue that holds the double-sided pad and plastic pad adapter together will become overheated and delaminate, separating the pad and leaving it useless, or the metal PC adapter will come apart itself. I've had both, more times then I'm comfortable with.

Every time I see one of these threads I cringe. Its just not cool to bash a product on-line, but this is a forum dedicated to detailing knowledge... that knowledge comes from the experiences of others, good or bad. This is the first thread I've seen about a problem with the Edge2000 system where a failure actually damaged the car being detailed, and now I'm kicking myself for not writing about my experiences sooner... especially since I know I'm not alone.

First off, yes, you should contact Aaron Krause at Edge Products (Dedication to Detail). He will immediatly send you replacements products with no questions asked. That's a credit to Aaron's customer service. I've only ordered one complete set of Edge2000 pads, yet I've got about three full sets around here... ought to tell you something. Each time I was told the new pads were "updated", new glue or whatever, and they would have no problems... and each time they had the same problems. I finally stopped asking Aaron for replacement pads because it was pointless.

It really sucks too, because any of you who have used the Edge2000 pads will probably agree that the pad material is great... better then anything else I use regularly. They've got bite when needed, don't waste alot of product, and I think they do a great job. I even tried the velcro Edge pads, but the glue delaminated on them too... luckily it just made a sticky mess.

Unfortunatly I won't use Edge products at all anymore. All of my past failures had been pad-related, but the last time I really needed the benefits of the Edge2000 system the adapter itself failed, just like chgoh's. I was was working a side panel with no pressure on the PC, so I caught it in time and no damage done to my car.

Now, imagine the adapter failing on a horizontal panel, say maybe the hood of my nice black Mercedes... I doubt I'd be so easy on Aaron and his defective Edge2000 products. Chgoh, you're taking this much better then I would have. It just kills me that the failure damaged your car, but maybe your experience will have the positive effect of keeping the same thing from happening to others.
 
I am using Edge 2000 PC pads with new adapter (shorter). So far I have had no problems with the pads or quick release adapter. However, after reading chgoh's post, I am very skeptical about putting the Edge 2000 system to use on any of my customers cars. Hopefully Aaron will do something about this problem.

Aaron is there anything we should check on before we start polishing (tightness, looseness, etc) on the adapter? What is the cause? How to avid it?
 
dimedrol said:
Aaron is there anything we should check on before we start polishing (tightness, looseness, etc) on the adapter? What is the cause? How to avid it?
Click to expand...
I'm not Aaron, but Aaron told me that heat generated by the PC was the problem, and that I should dip the adapter in cold water every time I start to work a new section. Do you really have time to click the pad off, dip the adapter in water, click the pad back on, and then start working every time you start a new panel???
 
i will agree with e-klasse Aaron has great CS. He will help you and replace products with no problem. He is a great guy.

However it seems that the product in discussion has a reason to cause concern. I would hate to do this on a customers car and then owe them hundreds of dollars to get a repaint.

Greg
 
ok the truth is out ... ive had pad failures and aaron has replaced the whole set 3 times so im going to use the new ones and if theres a problem im going in a different direction . give Aaron a chance to make it right and he will . he is a standup guy..
 
bigron62 said:
ok the truth is out ... ive had pad failures and aaron has replaced the whole set 3 times so im going to use the new ones and if theres a problem im going in a different direction . give Aaron a chance to make it right and he will . he is a standup guy..
Click to expand...

I wish I could. I've fixed the adaptor to finish off the detailing yesterday. It was my own car, so I wouldn't have to explain to the customer. I had wish it was just a adaptor or pad failure alone, but the failure lead to damage to the paint work and panel.

I'm not sure what would be the solution even Aaron knows. He could send me a new adaptor which I'm not sure I would use.

As I inspected the pads after I had washed them from yesterday's session, the hexagonal hole in which the adaptor plugs into, is showing some the first signs of wear. I'm just hypothesizing here, but this would be another point of failure, which could lead to damage to the paint work and/or panel.

With this experience, I'm rethinking the pad design that would buy into. It's better to spend the money then have to bear the pain and expense of redoing the paintwork and panel repair.

However, I must say that the usage design of the Edge2K system is pretty engineeringly sound: self centering, easy pad on/off, double sided usage and protection etc. But the reliability of the system needs to be improved, both in the plastic pad locking socket and the adaptor area.

chgoh @ 11:34am, 23Oct2005
 
im mostly using my rotary now because it produces better results and its easier to use . on regular jobs i normally would use the pc for i run my makita on low rpm and its a peice of cake .. i still use my pc but i dont run speed 5 or 6 anymore its too hard on the pads . and for paint correction it beats a pc hands down . keep us posted on the outcome on the pad situation ..
 
Yes heat is the giant issue with pads I've found. Edge has amazing customer service and Aaron will do everything he can to help you. However I'm going to try LC pads to see how easy they are to clean and how they hold up in design.
 
Just got back from the painter's shop with my car. The roof is good as new, smooth and free from rainwater etches! :biggrin:

Gonna go home after this and give a coat of KSG and resume my routine for the next 2-3 weekends, i.e. 2 more coats of KSG, then 1 coat of 845IW and, if I feel like it, one coat of S100. Won't be using the PC/Edge2K pads to do these LSPs though, since I already got the polishing done last Sat.

By the way, just for the sake of documentation, last Saturday, I did the following: 1 pass of IP, 1 pass of FP2, 1 pass of AIO, all with the PC, and 1 coat of KSG manually.

All in all, the panel beating + repainting cost USD130.

Some of you might not do so but I'm going to leave this behind me and move on to another brand of pads.

chgoh @ 5:04 pm, 24 October 2005
 
e-klasse said:
I'm not Aaron, but Aaron told me that heat generated by the PC was the problem, and that I should dip the adapter in cold water every time I start to work a new section. Do you really have time to click the pad off, dip the adapter in water, click the pad back on, and then start working every time you start a new panel???
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I not quite certain if you understood my original description of the failure, but I don't think heat was the cause of it.

Basically the part of the adaptor that screws onto the PC is a brass part if I don't remember wrongly. This part is also screwed onto the chrome housing of the adaptor and holds the spring, the 3 ball bearings and the press-release piece for the pads. The thread the worked loose is the thread on brass part that screws onto the chrome housing, not the thread that screws onto the PC.

I think vibration on the PC itself have alot to do with the mode of failure that I experienced. As far as I could tell, that part of the thread onto the chrome housing was not locked in any mechanical way, not even a washer, as far as my example of the adaptor was concerned. Which was why after looking at the adaptor for a while during the detailing session itself (I was trying to savage the situation, since I was 1/2 way through the detailing session), I decide to apply some liquid thread lock onto that portion that worked loose. I did this knowingly that on the chrome housing was engraved the words "No Loctite" or something to that effect.

Hope this explains in a little more detail.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince anyone here one way or the other. Just something to document my experience. For all I know/experienced, the Edge2K system could continue to work well for the many existing and future users.
 
I too have had many problems with Edge pads. Aaron support was great, but the issue of the pads delaminating has never been resolved. Each time Aaron would send out "new and improved" pads and each time they would fail. I don't want to come accross as product bashing. I honestly feel the foam on the Edge pad is the best that I have used. But when the pad consistently seperates from the backing you are asking for trouble. As a mobile detailer, i do alot of work in the sun using PB products. Edge pads do not stand up to heat in any way, shape or form. I too got sick of asking for replacement pads. It almost felt like I was testing the product for them. Aaron is a very nice guy but a pad failure could be a very costly event, not only in the repair of the vehicle but in loss of business. Again, I really wished that this would have worked out, but unfortunately it has not.
 
I have been using the pads and the adapter for over a year with the pad failures in at the start because of the old pads I'm very happy with E2K and will continue to use them
 
Just an update on the situation so far, after I had called Aaron on the phone. Timing was a little skewed as I am in Singapore and he is in Pennsylvania (12 hour time difference). I had intended not to call, but a PM from both Aaron and another poster, prompted me to make that call anyway. I thought I might be able to provide him some of what I thought might be wrong with the adaptor, so that he could also make improvements on the product itself, regardless of which direction I was going to in the future.

Like everyone who have spoken with Aaron before, his attention to customer service was fantastic.

Aaron was extremely apologetic and concerned about my situation. It a little tough to put in writing what was a conversation but here my topic by topic log:

1. Aaron explained that the DA adaptors themselves were made by a metal parts company and shipped to DTD. The adaptors meant for rotary machines which the Edge system was originally designed was finished completely by the metal parts company. The DA adaptor was worked on further in DTD in 2 steps: Firstly, the adaptor was shorten (I think this was discuss in another thread before), and secondly, the DA thread mating part (brass part) was threaded with Loctite applied. The "no Loctite" engraving on the chrome housing that I saw was the indication from the metal parts company that these were ordered from them with no Loctite applied so that DTD could do further work on them.

2. All the above sounded good, so Aaron's explanation of what I had experienced was simple. If Loctite had been applied on the DA adaptors (Loctite 271 - red label), then it would not have been possible for the adaptor to have come apart under load/stress. If they had come apart with even with the Loctite, the threading would be so messed up that I could not screw the 2 parts together after that. By virtue that I could do the reassembley by hand, it meant that Loctite was not applied in the example that I had. I told Aaron that I had not used the Loctite 271 but some off brand called Alteco. But the adaptor did hold up through out the rest of the detailing session on Saturday, ~3 hours, usually between speeds 4 and 6. So this was attributed to Loctite being missed on the adaptor that I had.

3. Aaron further explained what next steps they would do in improving the adaptor even further. Instead of Loctite, Aaron is going to put in place a brass to brass brazing/welding step to mate the 2 parts. This being a inline manufacturing step, cannot be missed in the entire assembly process. Thinking as an engineer, I thought that made a lot of sense, as Loctite is probably a secondary process and not inline, even if it worked on holding the parts together.

4. Aaron also explained the pad delamination problems that he has faced a year back. The glue that is used now can withstand over 400 degrees and is holding up great on all newer pads. I was shown the glue differences; the ones on I have have brownish colored glue, the ones that were a year ago were supposedly white in color.

So all in all, I had a good conversation with Aaron; he is really dedicated to the product and to his customers. At the end, instead of just talk only, Aaron made the following offers to me (which I accepted):
a. ship me the new brazed/welded DA adaptor
b. ship me a new set of pads, just to be doubly sure that they are the new ones.

He really made good on the repairs that I had done too! :yes:

All this have given me much better confidence in continuing the use of the Edge2K pads.

chgoh @ 8:14am, 25Oct2005
 
fireman03 said:
I too have had many problems with Edge pads. Aaron support was great, but the issue of the pads delaminating has never been resolved. Each time Aaron would send out "new and improved" pads and each time they would fail. I don't want to come accross as product bashing. I honestly feel the foam on the Edge pad is the best that I have used. But when the pad consistently seperates from the backing you are asking for trouble. As a mobile detailer, i do alot of work in the sun using PB products. Edge pads do not stand up to heat in any way, shape or form. I too got sick of asking for replacement pads. It almost felt like I was testing the product for them. Aaron is a very nice guy but a pad failure could be a very costly event, not only in the repair of the vehicle but in loss of business. Again, I really wished that this would have worked out, but unfortunately it has not.
Click to expand...

I did not have pad failure; the pads themselves worked great IMHO.
 
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