durability question

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membim

Chadwick's Auto Detailing
When putting a sealant over a cleaner wax or glaze, does durability suffer?

For example. Would EXP last longer over SSR1 or PwC?
 
With so many people on-line, I thought someone would have answered you by now.
Guess I'll give my opinion.
My prep for a sealant, (UPP), consists of a wax free cleaning product, (AIO), since IMO the wax may affect the bonding of the sealant. That would most likely not be good for durability.
Given the products you have, I would apply the EXP over the SSR1.
Several people on the board do use PwC as the final prep before EX or EXP, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it.
From what I have read, the SSR1 should leave a great finish for the EXP to go on.

Charles
 
Personally, I believe that a polymer applied to a clean paint surface, applied over anther similar polymer product, or applied to itself, will give the best durability. Will it be that much better than mixing products............ who knows?
 
I know a lot of people that are putting EX and/or EX-P over a glaze like Vanilla Moose. There haven't been any reports that I know of regarding lowered durability.
 
Boss_429 said:
Personally, I believe that a polymer applied to a clean paint surface, applied over anther similar polymer product, or applied to itself, will give the best durability. Will it be that much better than mixing products............ who knows?
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I agree. I don't like the idea of applying a sealant on top of any Carnauba product (PWC).

I like a sealant applied to a clean surface, or to itself. I will usually use VM or AIO as a sealant prep (I'm really taking a shine to VM).

I know people who use PWC as a prep for EX-P with no bonding issues, but I don't even want to try it. The risk of having to strip everything off and start over is just not worth it to me when I get tremendous results with the process I use now.

Hope this helps.
 
No fan flamer here but I have UPP over VM and I have EX-P over PwC+VM and I can not see a bonding issue with either one. So far the rain sheets off both finishes and the dirt comes right off when I wash. Just my 2 cents.
 
rabbi said:
No fan flamer here but I have UPP over VM and I have EX-P over PwC+VM and I can not see a bonding issue with either one. So far the rain sheets off both finishes and the dirt comes right off when I wash. Just my 2 cents.
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Hey Rabbi, I love UPP over VM, it's my favorite combo on metallics. I recently tried it on black and it was equally stunning.

As far as th PWC+VM+EXP, did you apply it in that order? If so, the VM removed any carnauba that you had on your paint hence the solid bonding with the EX-P. But like I said, I know people use PWC+EX-P and seem to have no bonding issues. I just stated I wasn't trying it (too scared). I don't have time to do the same job twice.

By the way, I know from reading the forums that you use a lot of UPP. I really like the look, but I havn't yet used it on my own vehicles, how is the durability? Do you think 3-4 layers will make it 6 months in a Michigan winter?
 
No way will 6 coats make it thru the entire Michigan winter. I had 18/23 layers(I realize layers wore off in between my adding more) on mine and by mid March it was down to nil. The reason I say this is (unscientific of course) because until mid March the salt and other road dirt just glided off when hit with a jet stream of H2O. I never had to use any pressure on my mitt to get my cars clean. In the middle of March I noticed the water wasn't sheeting off,there was no beading and the salt and road dirt clung to the cars. Yes I used PwC+Vm+UPP. As for the VM wiping out the carnuba in PwC I don't know. I do know I like the look. I now have 6 coats of EX-P on mine and 6 coats of UPP on my wife's. It rained yesterday and the cars beaded like crazy. They now need washed which I'll follow with some Souveran Paste and Paste Glaz.
 
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rabbi said:
No fan flamer here but I have UPP over VM and I have EX-P over PwC+VM and I can not see a bonding issue with either one. So far the rain sheets off both finishes and the dirt comes right off when I wash. Just my 2 cents.
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Rick,

Certainly no flame taken here................. I know you, and I know that wouldn't be your intent with any post. However, I believe the question was "does the durability suffer"?

Anyhow, I've used a whole bunch of products, and the two that will still the most durable were Klasse and Zaino.

If you ask the people at Klasse if using a product that may be incompatible (products with oils/silicones/waxes....... Etc) between coats of SG might have an ADVERSE affect on the durability............... I bet they would say yes.

If you ask Sal at Zaino the same question, I bet you would get the same answer.

If you ask Dwayne the same thing about UPP......... I bet you would get the same answer.

I bet if you even ask Steve, he will say........... with all other things being equal, a product should LAST LONGER if it is applied to a clean paint surface or too itself, than it would if products of different base components are mixed.

However, and this is a BIG "however"............. will the difference be a large difference.................... hard to say? There are too many variables, and no one that I know of has a way to scientifically measure it. I "CAN" tell you that when you mix incompatible products with Zaino or Klasse...................... you can see the drop in durability easily.

Just my 2 cents.
 
When I did my "Winterization Protection Plan" I put the UPP on top of Klasse ALL In One. This spring/summer is when I tried a sealant Poorboy's EX-P/UPP over Vanilla Moose.
 
I've tried a number of different base/sealant/topper combos. Sometimes the base affects durability and sometimes it doesn't. The question is whether or not the difference (if any) is significant enough to affect your particular situation. If you live in a snowbelt region and can only park outdoors, the difference between 4 months of durability and 5 months of durability can mean a great deal to you. However, if you have the luxury of re-applying sealants or toppers every couple months, then it doesn't really matter if your combo is expected to have 4, 5, or 9 months of durability. I strive to find combos with the most appealing appearance characteristics for my particular vehicles. Then, I try to determine which of those combos will also meet my durability requirements.

For the record, I have used EX-P over PwC, SSR1, PP, AIO, and VM. For the periods observed (ranging from 2 months to 4 months), I saw no difference in durability on my garaged vehicles. However, the combos had very different "looks" depending upon the color of the paint.
 
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