Dual action, your choices are:

I

imported_Tom

New member
Makita, Flex and the PC types which one IS the best and why; lets disregard the pricing and type about the machine only.

I would appreciate comments as to which is easier to control, which is easier to listen to and which does the most correction though the use will be on surfaces which are in very good to excellent condition.

This will be my last machine purchase, don't want to choose the wrong one; I am not a pro so near continuous duty capability is not necessary though I do have (unfortunately) a badly built rv, 24' which I do like to keep looking as good as possible-when doing the coach it can take three full 8 hour days so performance on large vertical panels, (fiberglass gelcoat) of course is very important.

Tnks in advance.
 
Flex 3401 has more power for correction but is not "easiest to controle".

Not sure you can get both qualities in one machine although I dont know about the makita.

Maybe the makita is a winner ?
 
Get a forced rotating polisher. I kick myself for not buying one in the first place. Makita has a nice one out now that is forced and also random. Flex is always good, but you'll be emptying out everything in your pockets for one...
 
I have used the Flex 3401VRG for several years in my business, but it gets the easy work while my Rotaries ( Makita 9227c, Flex PE14-250) get the full on correction work because they do it much faster.

The Flex 3401VRG gets a lot of not so positive feedback because it rotates counter-clockwise, while all other machines pretty much go clockwise direction.

I have found that if you step down the pad size of the Flex 3401VRG to the 5" or so pads, it is much much easier to handle even in its counter-clockwise rotation.

You mention that you are going to be using a machine on near perfect paintwork and not so near perfect gelcoat on your RV. The only machine that would be capable of doing a perfect job on both these scenarios I believe, will be that Rotary, or 2nd best, the Flex 3401VRG, because of its forced rotation.

I personally do not know ANY gel-coat detailers (boats), that use a Random Orbital machine to do that work. Heavy work on Gelcoat will pretty much kill even a good Rotary after awhile, so the smaller, way slower to correct Random Orbitals would die trying to correct a lot of gelcoat, and the harder Urethane based Airplane Paint.

Then you have to consider the pad sizes needed for your work.

For a lot of gelcoat, or airplane paint, most people use a rotary and a larger then 6" pad as needed. The machine can handle this, but can the Operator handle the extra strength needed to manage a bigger rotating pad and the downward pressure needed to keep the pad doing the work efficiently?

The random orbitals except perhaps, the Flex3410VRG, are going to have a hard time rotating the larger pads period, and you need rotation to break down the compound so it can do its work.

So, at the end of the day, you will need to think this through carefully, decide what YOU want to see happen, and then make your best choice/s and hopefully get it right the first time.

Good luck with this !
Dan F
 
Appreciate the feedback, the reason I don't have the flex is due to the controlability comments that stokdgs relates and which I have read from a number of users-these comments and having to use it on large rv panels has eliminated the machine.
I have been thinking of the Makita however I was unaware of the limitations with the forced mode, really appreciate the heads up from Todd on this.

Perhaps I'll save a bunch of cash and go with the Griots , though I was hoping to get ahold of a pro or at least a prosumer tool.

Any other machine I should consider?-quality and usability is far more important to me than cost.
 
imported_Tom said:
Appreciate the feedback, the reason I don't have the flex is due to the controlability comments that stokdgs relates and which I have read from a number of users-these comments and having to use it on large rv panels has eliminated the machine.
I have been thinking of the Makita however I was unaware of the limitations with the forced mode, really appreciate the heads up from Todd on this.

Perhaps I'll save a bunch of cash and go with the Griots , though I was hoping to get ahold of a pro or at least a prosumer tool.

Any other machine I should consider?-quality and usability is far more important to me than cost.
Click to expand...

Just for generalizations... Let's break the DA polishers into two distinct catagories: Forced Rotation (FLEX & Makita BO6040) and Random Orbital (Griots 6 inch, Meguiars G110v2, & Porter Cable 7424XP).

A Forced Rotation DA is going to deliver more polishing power to the surface because it is driving the pad's rotation. The trade-off is slightly less safety margin because you are removing more material at a faster rate, and the forced spinning of the pad will cause it to steer you slightly if you angle it.

A Random Orbital DA is going to be safer because the rotation of the pad is "free-wheeling". In most cases it will not deliver the same polishing speed/power.

Here is the counterpoint though: The name random orbital (should be random rotational) means that the pad's rpms (spinning) is constantly changing speeds as things like friction and pad loading try to slow it down. This allows the user to manipulate the pattern of movement the pad makes. This is why many professionals who have invested serious amounts of time and energy into Random Orbital DA's love them. With the proper use, pads, and chemicals you can nearly equal the cut of a Forced Rotation DA while manipulating the machine for a better finish.

IF you want awesome, professional grade results right out of the box, get the FLEX/Makita.

If you are willing to invest a lot of time into learning the mechanics of a Random Orbital DA, then get a PC/Griots/Meguiars.

 
All these machines will work for you but like has mention I would look into a Forced Rotation one due to that you will perform better results and get it done faster once you master them.
 
I better make sure my terminology is correct; my Cyclo is a forced d/a and my vintage pc is a 'freewheeler' d/a-stallable (becomes a jiggler) when pressure is applied ??

If I am not in error then what is the advantage-in view of the price- of the Makita if it is a jiggler until put into forced rotation then becomes limited due to the stroke?

Since I have introduced another brand lets open the topic to all machines and have here the definitive thread on which machine to buy when someone wants a higher end tool of the type under discussion that will perform well on large rv panels (read pad edge contact will be frequent) and flat panel work.

Lastly tools from the US-Cyclo, and the EU are particularly attractive to me (I was really bummed when we ordered a few Alto/Wap hepa vacs and discovered that they don't say 'made in Germany-anymore, rather the label reads 'made in the EU' :(

At least Wohler test equipment, or the model analyzers we buy and our favorite brand boiler, Veissmann, still say made in the Fatherland....:yay
 
Many times these questions come up asking what's the best of this or that and what I may consider the best for me may not be the best for you...

I have 4 machines and left to right

  1. Porter Cable 7424
  2. Makita 9227
  3. Flex 3401
  4. Flex PE14-2-150
Collection_RD18.jpg



Collection_RD17.jpg



Each polisher has it's place and I use all of them.

Porter Cable 7424 is the oldest of the bunch and has been in service for 14 years. While it handled everything I could ask of it I now use it for applying sealants and waxes or for an occasional polish...

Makita 9227 is my go to rotary for general use any time I require a rotary machine. It's powerful, balanced, well built, and is reliable as the day is long. I'll used this with Meguiar's Solo, Lake Country foam-wool, Yellow foam, and occasionally Orange foam.

Flex 3401 is an extremely well engineered precision built machine. A lot of thought and development must have gone into this machine and although it's a bit larger than the Porter Cable 7424 it handles like a dream. The Flex 3401 incorporates forced rotation so than the user can essentially ignore the downward pressure so that the pad keeps spinning. I was amazed at how efficient this machine corrects and polishes the finish.

Flex PE14-2-150 is my latest addition. With all the accolades of the Flex 3401 this rotary will impress even the most finicky of user. Power, balance, surgical precision, this rotary is amazing and at about 6 pounds you wonder how.

Most of my work with this machine is with pads 5" diameter and under. I like the way it handles in those tight areas can only be realized while using it...
 
Addicted2Bling said:
Do you put dressing on your polishers??? That's some serious OCD right there!
Click to expand...

This shot was taken when the Flex machines were relitively new but the Porter Cable 7424 was about 12 to 13 years old.

Bottom Line: All the machines look pretty much the same today because I clean them faithfully before putting them away...

My first polisher still working since 1968.....:bigups


Machine_02.jpg



Machine_01.jpg
 
Bobby how do you like the flex bag? I've heard some people complain about it while others like it a lot
 
Rocket said:
Bobby how do you like the flex bag? I've heard some people complain about it while others like it a lot
Click to expand...

Rocket said:
No kidding. They almost look like they've never been used
Click to expand...


From what I gather there are more than one Flex bag out there and one is rather flimsy while the other is like mine.

I really like this Flex bag. I bought it through Autogeek and was very surprised how well constructed it is. There is plenty of room for both my Flex machines and a variety of pads and bonnets.

I give this bag a 9.8......:bigups

I use um then I clean um...all my tools are like this...Maybe that's why I like detailing!!
 
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