Driving myself crazy! Another hard clear coat question

J

Justins00ss

Active member
Alright guys something has to give here lol!

Some of you may remember my other thread asking about the hard GM clear coat on mainly black.

http://www.autopia.org/forums/paint-correction-and-gloss-enhancement/185563-hard-rocks-gm.html


So I ran into a bit of difficulty again with a new black GMC 3500 Denali. The truck had 3000mi on it and was in decent shape although dirty but still decent. Due to the size of the truck I agreed to do it at the clients shop. Plenty of space but really dark. I used my husky 5000k LED on a tripod for lighting.


So my plan was to one step it and hit it CSL. I had most of the weekend to work on it. So my test spot was with Essence, orange BOSS pad and my g21. I got awesome correction but it was leaving a hazy look to the paint under my light. Now normally I would pull it outside in direct light to see what I am dealing with. Unfortunately I had another thing going against me and that was mother nature. It was raining all weekend non stop. So no way to check my work outside which I really hate.

So in order to try to find a one step to remove most small defects and finish I tried an array of combinations. From my 3401 with different pads and polishes, to my g21 and they all either left hazing or didn`t remove enough defects.


The biggest shock was when I tried my 3401 with a black pad and m205 and I actually got holograms! WTH!?!?? I fought for over an hour trying to come up with something. I ended up using my original test plan. My g21, orange boss pad and Essence. Then followed it up with my 7424, black pad and Essence again. Seemed to work the best but still wasn`t perfect IMO.

I am really wondering if I was fighting my lighting and what I was seeing wasnt something I would see outside.

I went ahead and coated it and called it good. My client is a contractor so the black truck with be on job sites and getting dirty in no time. But I am still wrapping my head around this!

Alright guys I need some help here!!!! I know people gave me suggestions for cutting hard paint but trying to finish this stuff is pretty damn tough and I have polished a fair bit of vehicles. These new black GM are going to be the death of me!!!!!
 
I know that essence can sometimes cause a haze, supposedly if over worked. But am unsure about the rest of the stuff.

Sorry.
 
You had better get this GM clear figured out. I know someone ;) who works way to long and can`t spend the time polishing and coating his car. He was hoping to have you do his Black Camaro next spring, since he has scene your awesome work. It has bunch RIDS from a turkey or turkey`s (yes real turkey`s) attacking the car over a weekend when it had to be left outside. Stupid birds see there reflection and start pecking and rearing up and clawing at it thinking its another turkey.
 
Black is always a 2-step job IMO, especially GM black, which tends to be fussy at times. I just finished up a black 2016 GMC last night and cut it with M205MF and finished with Hyper Polish and a yellow BOSS pad.







 
trashmanssd said:
You had better get this GM clear figured out. I know someone ;) who works way to long and can`t spend the time polishing and coating his car. He was hoping to have you do his Black Camaro next spring, since he has scene your awesome work. It has bunch RIDS from a turkey or turkey`s (yes real turkey`s) attacking the car over a weekend when it had to be left outside. Stupid birds see there reflection and start pecking and rearing up and clawing at it thinking its another turkey.
Click to expand...

Don`t worry I am sure it is a simple fix and I am over thinking it. Going to check the truck outside in a little while since the sun is out! Send yiur buddy on over!

RaskyR1 said:
Black is always a 2-step job IMO, especially GM black, which tends to be fussy at times. I just finished up a black 2016 GMC last night and cut it with M205MF and finished with Hyper Polish and a yellow BOSS pad.







Click to expand...

Great job Rasky! I think that your right about it being a 2 step no matter what.
 
Rasky - Nice job on that one. Did you use MF Cut disc with the 205?

funny timing, too. Well, great timing.
 
Sometimes the large throw machines no matter what pad are the problem. They can be aggressive on they`re own. You may want to try a small throw da for the last step?
 
Some sorta-random thoughts follow, some of which will differ from the experiences/opinions of others and all of which might be a waste of bandwidth:

-IME *every* job that involves significant correction is at least a 2-step
-M205 can leave "pseudo-holograms" due to the TSO
-M205 doesn`t finish out well enough for me on black no matter what
-The Flex 3401 doesn`t finish out well enough for me on *anything* no matter what
-If you see flaws in one type of lighting, then they`re really there even if you can`t see them under any other circumstances
 
Accumulator said:
Some sorta-random thoughts follow, some of which will differ from the experiences/opinions of others and all of which might be a waste of bandwidth:

-IME *every* job that involves significant correction is at least a 2-step
-M205 can leave "pseudo-holograms" due to the TSO
-M205 doesn`t finish out well enough for me on black no matter what
-The Flex 3401 doesn`t finish out well enough for me on *anything* no matter what
-If you see flaws in one type of lighting, then they`re really there even if you can`t see them under any other circumstances
Click to expand...

Very well said! Especially that last part. That`s what bothers me the most.


Well I was able to go look at the truck outside today since the sun finally decided to come out. In the day light it looks pretty nice. The client will be happy. I will say that there was a little bit of haze I saw.

I guess having an eye has its downfalls lol. I did speak with a fellow acquaintance and very respected detailer and he gave me a few tips for future use.

Here are the pictures.



If I got right up on the fender I could see a small amount haze. Not sure if this picture caught it.







 
Justins00ss- Glad the client was happy, "that`s that!" huh? :D

Duplicating sunlight in the Shop Environment is indeed a challenge! For me, it`s all about getting the shop otherwise dark and using "point-source" illumination. Lots of guys use LED flashlights for that, though it didn`t work out too well with mine. But getting the shop *DARK* is just sooo important IME.
 
Chad -
Another Beautiful, perfect, stunningly clear and glossy example from your shop !
Nothing but perfection from you and you have been putting out this highest level of work for Years...

I also am a great fan of Optimum Hyper-Polish - that stuff is really amazing and it came out years ago.

Yeah, I would never go into a black vehicle without having supplies for more than 1 step.. Especially jet black..

Justin, sorry you had these challenges.. I am sure you have it figured out now..
You have to work that paint but not get it too hot either..
Another super job And learning experience to add to the file..
Dan F
 
Well, imho it looks GREAT!

That said, I know that at different angles on the black vette I could see a haze, but move a touch and gone. So it was a few peoples opinion tha the paint was playing tricks on us due to the "curves" of the car.
 
Do you think Essence on a Meg`s microfiber finishing pad might have worked better (Boss 21)? Essence works better for me on a microfiber pad. I think it has something to do with the heat. All that aside, black probably need a 2 step process at least.
 
Damn that`s big truck, Justin! Not fun!


JustJesus said:
Rasky - Nice job on that one. Did you use MF Cut disc with the 205?

funny timing, too. Well, great timing.
Click to expand...

I used Griot`s BOSS MF pads for this one. The paint of these trucks tends to be "sticky" with certain compounds and M205 wiped off effortlessly and cuts extremely well with MF and large throw tools. :)
 
So I gather from my buddy Mr DiTerlizzi that these GM clears typically require a diminishing abrasive type polish to finish down properly.

After a chat with Rob about this matter he confirmed that a 2 step is the only way to approach these new black GM vehicles.

I just wanted to make it clear that it`s not that I didn`t have the tools or product necessary to achieve a 2 step process it was more about the time and budget for the project.



Lesson learned for the future! Thanks again everyone for the inputs! Until next time.
 
It almost sounds like the paint was on the softer side if M205 on a finishing pad was creating defects. Or just plain finicky. I encountered something similar on my uncles black 2002 corvette that was repainted. A finishing pad with M205 instilled efects back into the paint after I had compounded the car with D300 on Griot`s boss microfiber pads to remove some severe paint defects. When I went to a Rupes yellow pad and M205 it finished out fine. But when I went to finishing pad, it created defects. Go figure. I was also testing out Rupes yellow polish and the Rupes yellow pad and that worked fine as well and that is what I ended up using. I am using a Rupes 15 Mark II.
 
Some paints are a pain; I`d play with some water to soften it up a bit. Water ratios can have a huge effect on cut/finish. A DAT will be a lot easier for a one step.
 
The Driver said:
Some paints are a pain; I`d play with some water to soften it up a bit. Water ratios can have a huge effect on cut/finish. A DAT will be a lot easier for a one step.
Click to expand...

You are so right !!

I only use a Rotary and I always spray the bottle of pad conditioner(which is like a QD anyway) on the work to keep it all just moist enough to finish down to almost nothing, and then the pad will clean up the rest when I ease off the pressure, and hardly anything left to wipe off and accidentally muck up the pristine finish.. :)

I hardly ever just let the liquids in the media do all the moisturizing work - well except for Optimum Hyper Polish which is so excellent right out of the gate even as a SMAT polish..

Even at correction or polishing, it really comes down to thin, even, coverage and balanced, even, flat, pressure on the panel from beginning of stroke to end..

A lot of things are happening all at once including friction heat and it needs to be as even as possible to get the same result all the way through that entire spot on the panel...

This is why you get huge arms/shoulders doing this all day for years with a 10 lb tool that is wanting to move to the right all the time.. :)
Dan F
 
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