I agree with Jaredpointer that we are selling a service that is paid for with disposable income. I think most of us are getting a little less work in this economy, what has worked for me is I kept any returning customers prices the same, any new customers my prices are 25% higher than last years so I can actually make more money doing less work. I also have included an express detail package that is less costly to my customer which has gone over quite well with some new customers that dont have the money for a regular detail. Some of you may disagree with my idea of raising prices this much in this economy but for me it has gone over well and has actually closed the financial gap that was being created by having less work
Does Anyone Care for Quality Anymore?
- Thread starter DT08
- Start date
I am a weekend warrior as far a car detailing my own vehicles but during the week I own and operarte a Janitorial Distribution company. We also have competition that sell at unbelievabley low margins. WHY? Simple, there are 2 main reasons.
1. They don't know their true costs of doing business and they don't stick around for long. Or they don't have insurance.
2. They can't compete on quality so they go the only route they can in desparaton and that on price. Quality wins in the long run you just need to take some time to be sure you hit YOUR target market.
REMEMBER:
Your competition does not lower your price (or quality) YOU do!
You need to continually add value to your process (product), its more work but worth it in the long run!
I have paid for hand washes/details and for 12.00 I already know its not the guy I want touching my car. For 12 bucks he cannot affort to spend the time cleaning my wheels that is required.
Good Luck.
1. They don't know their true costs of doing business and they don't stick around for long. Or they don't have insurance.
2. They can't compete on quality so they go the only route they can in desparaton and that on price. Quality wins in the long run you just need to take some time to be sure you hit YOUR target market.
REMEMBER:
Your competition does not lower your price (or quality) YOU do!
You need to continually add value to your process (product), its more work but worth it in the long run!
I have paid for hand washes/details and for 12.00 I already know its not the guy I want touching my car. For 12 bucks he cannot affort to spend the time cleaning my wheels that is required.
Good Luck.
Bunky
Detailing Gnosis
Using some like this may help educate your potential customers..
njcarting1
Dewey,Cheatem & Howe ESQ.
:rofl:rofl:rofl:lmfao:yay:rofl:wall:wall:wall
ITS NOT JUST IN THE DETAILING TRADE, ITS IN EVERYTHING I ASSURE YOU... THATS GOOD ADVISE, YOU ARE RIGHT THEY GET WHAT THEY PAY FOR WHEN PRICE IS THE ONLY FACTOR...
Very few times do you ever get the "A" team when ya wanna be cheep in regards to the price. The reason is the best guy has overhead! he is the guy that's doing everything he can to assure quality. Everything he does is above board, insurance,taxes,quality help, quality products and on and on. That costs money and in order for him to do what he does costs money. The 10 dollar hack will not be around when ya need the mope 3 months later. I like a good price and don't want to pay more but I also want the guy to stay in business when I need him again.
QUOTE,
1. They don't know their true costs of doing business and they don't stick around for long. Or they don't have insurance.
2. They can't compete on quality so they go the only route they can in desperation and that on price. Quality wins in the long run you just need to take some time to be sure you hit YOUR target market.
REMEMBER:
Your competition does not lower your price (or quality) YOU do!
I got bashed on the chat here for telling the same things, seems its what ya gotta know to stay in business... Ya gotta know your costs period, its not about the 20 bucks in your pocket at the end of the week.
@Bunky: That photo alone is enough to scare the hell out of me...lol.
Where I live some of these guys have the classic cars with the big for no reason rims on their cars. I seen these guys at an auto body shop and decided to pitch my business to them. Handed out a few flyers and the first thing the guys said was this is too much for me. When those guys told me where they go, all I could say was good luck with that. This place is notorious for only thoroughly washing the driver side of your car and leaving the passenger side half washed.
I think Gotham said, don't drive yourself crazy about it. I just needed to rant for a minute. It's crazy how people want nice cars, but don't want to take the time or money to keep it looking good.
Where I live some of these guys have the classic cars with the big for no reason rims on their cars. I seen these guys at an auto body shop and decided to pitch my business to them. Handed out a few flyers and the first thing the guys said was this is too much for me. When those guys told me where they go, all I could say was good luck with that. This place is notorious for only thoroughly washing the driver side of your car and leaving the passenger side half washed.
I think Gotham said, don't drive yourself crazy about it. I just needed to rant for a minute. It's crazy how people want nice cars, but don't want to take the time or money to keep it looking good.
GothamAuto
New member
First off, thank you to everyone for agreeing with me. :yourrock
I would like to elaborate a little more on the topic. Ever since I wrote my initial response, I have put a lot of thought into this.
I have been in business for almost 6 years now, starting part time doing mobile work and slowly moving my way up to full time and owning a shop. My shop will have been open for 2 years in August. When I opened up, of course I would detail anything that came through the door for whatever people were willing to pay me. However, I have recently come to the conclusion that I need to decide if I want to be a high volume detailer or a high end detailer. I don't believe you can have a middle ground.
Having the shop for two years and working with 4-5 dealers/body shops on and off, I can now see how easy it is to fall into the high volume, low quality classification. At any point over the past two years, I could have hired 4 unqualified kids or immigrants, (sorry if that offends anyone, but it's the truth in this industry), changed dealerships $100 a car no matter what, and just let my workers "make the car look good" while I sit back and watch Simpson reruns all day. By this point, I would have been up to 5 dealerships and I would probably be set.
That's not me though, and I don't feel that is what MOST of us wanted to do when we went into business. Also, in the long run, I don't think it's a good plan. What happens when another guy decides to throw his hat into the ring and goes around saying he will do the cars for $95 and takes two dealerships from me? If I had 5, I have now lost 40% of my profits. You never want your largest account to be that much of your income, no matter what. AND THAT WILL HAPPEN. Dealership owners and managers care about one thing. Their bottom line. TRUST ME, they do not care about quality. My local Subaru used car lot looks like someone went through it with a wool pad and some Ajax. I don't understand how someone who calls themselves a detailer could possibly accept the whole car hologramed up as a good final product. I don't even think I could mess a car up that bad if I was trying.
Again, doing that is EASY and I think that is why the detailing industry is so watered down at this point in time. However, those of us who are serious about the industry NEED people who are in this for the long haul. It's tough, I understand. There have been times where I fell behind on my morgage, got letters that they were going to take my car and my wife's car, canceled my insurance, shut off my electricity, all of it. That's business, and I do what I have to in those months, but in the back of my mind was always "High End Detailer". You have to keep your main goal in mind, and you have to keep your purpose in mind. During the down times, you practice techniques. One day last winter when it was snowing I had one customer drop their father's 199-something white Toyota Camry off for a Wash-Wax and Vac service. It normally took about an hour to do, and I charged $60 for it. One of my mentors and business partners was in the shop with me that day. He told me I was spending all day on the car. I had nothing else scheduled, and since it was snowing, I probably was not getting anything else in. I spent 9 hours on the car. Another thing to do, study chemistry. Why does a polymer paint sealant last longer then a wax? How do live enzyme cleaners and Ozone generators kill bacteria and break down stains? These answers will put you way ahead of the guy down the road with 6 high school juniors washing minivans all day.
Since this is getting long winded, I will wrap it up. My point is that owning a business, ANY business is hard. If you think you are going to open your doors and Ferraris and AMG Blacks are going to roll through your door, your crazy. Fight through the tough times and keep your reputation intact. (Get a job part time at the local Starbucks. They give you health insurance at least.) If you ALWAYS do good work, customers and opportunities will come. Not all at once for sure, but slowly. One day you'll wake up and realize that even though the guy down the road always seems to be working on 3 different cars at a time, you have a Ferrari Enzoand an Audi R8 in your shop waiting to be finished and a Lexus LFA being dropped off directly from the dealership. Then ask yourself if you care what the owners of BMWs and Mercedes think when they say your prices are too high.
I would like to elaborate a little more on the topic. Ever since I wrote my initial response, I have put a lot of thought into this.
I have been in business for almost 6 years now, starting part time doing mobile work and slowly moving my way up to full time and owning a shop. My shop will have been open for 2 years in August. When I opened up, of course I would detail anything that came through the door for whatever people were willing to pay me. However, I have recently come to the conclusion that I need to decide if I want to be a high volume detailer or a high end detailer. I don't believe you can have a middle ground.
Having the shop for two years and working with 4-5 dealers/body shops on and off, I can now see how easy it is to fall into the high volume, low quality classification. At any point over the past two years, I could have hired 4 unqualified kids or immigrants, (sorry if that offends anyone, but it's the truth in this industry), changed dealerships $100 a car no matter what, and just let my workers "make the car look good" while I sit back and watch Simpson reruns all day. By this point, I would have been up to 5 dealerships and I would probably be set.
That's not me though, and I don't feel that is what MOST of us wanted to do when we went into business. Also, in the long run, I don't think it's a good plan. What happens when another guy decides to throw his hat into the ring and goes around saying he will do the cars for $95 and takes two dealerships from me? If I had 5, I have now lost 40% of my profits. You never want your largest account to be that much of your income, no matter what. AND THAT WILL HAPPEN. Dealership owners and managers care about one thing. Their bottom line. TRUST ME, they do not care about quality. My local Subaru used car lot looks like someone went through it with a wool pad and some Ajax. I don't understand how someone who calls themselves a detailer could possibly accept the whole car hologramed up as a good final product. I don't even think I could mess a car up that bad if I was trying.
Again, doing that is EASY and I think that is why the detailing industry is so watered down at this point in time. However, those of us who are serious about the industry NEED people who are in this for the long haul. It's tough, I understand. There have been times where I fell behind on my morgage, got letters that they were going to take my car and my wife's car, canceled my insurance, shut off my electricity, all of it. That's business, and I do what I have to in those months, but in the back of my mind was always "High End Detailer". You have to keep your main goal in mind, and you have to keep your purpose in mind. During the down times, you practice techniques. One day last winter when it was snowing I had one customer drop their father's 199-something white Toyota Camry off for a Wash-Wax and Vac service. It normally took about an hour to do, and I charged $60 for it. One of my mentors and business partners was in the shop with me that day. He told me I was spending all day on the car. I had nothing else scheduled, and since it was snowing, I probably was not getting anything else in. I spent 9 hours on the car. Another thing to do, study chemistry. Why does a polymer paint sealant last longer then a wax? How do live enzyme cleaners and Ozone generators kill bacteria and break down stains? These answers will put you way ahead of the guy down the road with 6 high school juniors washing minivans all day.
Since this is getting long winded, I will wrap it up. My point is that owning a business, ANY business is hard. If you think you are going to open your doors and Ferraris and AMG Blacks are going to roll through your door, your crazy. Fight through the tough times and keep your reputation intact. (Get a job part time at the local Starbucks. They give you health insurance at least.) If you ALWAYS do good work, customers and opportunities will come. Not all at once for sure, but slowly. One day you'll wake up and realize that even though the guy down the road always seems to be working on 3 different cars at a time, you have a Ferrari Enzoand an Audi R8 in your shop waiting to be finished and a Lexus LFA being dropped off directly from the dealership. Then ask yourself if you care what the owners of BMWs and Mercedes think when they say your prices are too high.
JaredPointer
COME AT ME BRO
Providing a good/service for a niche that's there. What, exactly, is wrong with that? Good, healthy, thriving businesses do this all the time.
Again, I'll say that some folks (the vast majority of car owners, I'd venture to say) don't care about having a true detail. They couldn't care any less in the world if they have marring, holograms, etc. You are not going to sell them something they don't want or need for an item they see as a mode from getting to point A to B.
njcarting1
Dewey,Cheatem & Howe ESQ.
:rofl:rofl:rofl
ITS SEEMS THAT WAY,
Most don't care at all, if they did there would be no work around for anyone.
If everyone mowed their own grass there would be no need for mowing services and the list goes on. If everyone was nice and never broke the law we would never need a lawyer, and cops would be eating more donuts because of lack of work :rofl:rofl I GUESS THATS NEVER GONNA CHANGE.:lmfao:lmfao :notme::notme::notme::notme::notme:
Bunky
Detailing Gnosis
Is it really "bad" quality when the buyer does seem to care either?
If there were buyers that cared, they would not buy it or the dealer to fix it, the dealer would raise the standards and more cars would be better detailed.
So, the free market system is working. Buyers accept what they get because they do not know or do not care.
If there were buyers that cared, they would not buy it or the dealer to fix it, the dealer would raise the standards and more cars would be better detailed.
So, the free market system is working. Buyers accept what they get because they do not know or do not care.
GothamAuto
New member
Just to prove my point about someone else opening up and charging $10 less then you do:
There is (was) another detail shop in my area that basically relied on this one dealership around the corner from them to keep the cars rolling in. They did a pretty good job and their turn around time was pretty quick, so he thought everything was fine.
Another shop recently opened up since I wrote last in this forum RIGHT NEXT DOOR to the dealership and has been going around one by one taking dealerships from all the other detailers in my area. The detailer that relied heavily on this particular dealership is now out of business. IN TWO MONTHS he went from a steady stream of cars to being closed.
The worst part is that the new place that opened up is a complete hack shop. While I would never have given the other shop any awards for great work, the new place is terrible. It's working out great for me. I have had a good number of people bring me their cars AFTER they had it done by this other place to repair the damage.
To stress my point again, it's never a good idea to get a majority of your work from one place, because this exact situation could happen.
I would rather take the time to build a relationship with 100 loyal customers who don't let anyone else touch their cars ever then try to make 1-2 large accounts happy by doing hack work.
There is (was) another detail shop in my area that basically relied on this one dealership around the corner from them to keep the cars rolling in. They did a pretty good job and their turn around time was pretty quick, so he thought everything was fine.
Another shop recently opened up since I wrote last in this forum RIGHT NEXT DOOR to the dealership and has been going around one by one taking dealerships from all the other detailers in my area. The detailer that relied heavily on this particular dealership is now out of business. IN TWO MONTHS he went from a steady stream of cars to being closed.
The worst part is that the new place that opened up is a complete hack shop. While I would never have given the other shop any awards for great work, the new place is terrible. It's working out great for me. I have had a good number of people bring me their cars AFTER they had it done by this other place to repair the damage.
To stress my point again, it's never a good idea to get a majority of your work from one place, because this exact situation could happen.
I would rather take the time to build a relationship with 100 loyal customers who don't let anyone else touch their cars ever then try to make 1-2 large accounts happy by doing hack work.
I am in Rochester, NY and have the same problem at times. Since we work in smaller cities there is less quality clientele at times but you just need to make sure that you get in with the correct group of professionals. Since I do this part time I try to make sure that first of all my quality goes above and beyond and then the second most important thing is convenience. What I try to set myself apart with is that I am insured and can drive their car from its parked location and take it back for detailing and that it will not interfere with their day of golf, work etc.
The Craigslist crowd can't compete with this which is why I don't worry about them. If someone considers some of the $15 washes and details from a cragslist ad then they are not the client for me. And don't get me wrong from time to time I do advertise on craigslist and I even throw in what people call my crazy prices but I don't care what the general public thinks, they are not the people I am seeking.
I apologize if this sounds a little snooty but I do this part time and do it because I enjoy working on great cars for people who appreciate it. Just this weekend alone I was given a tour by a new client who built a hanger outside of town for his 10 cars and wants me to keep up with them, this is what I live for. Long story short just keep working hard and the right people will come about.
The Craigslist crowd can't compete with this which is why I don't worry about them. If someone considers some of the $15 washes and details from a cragslist ad then they are not the client for me. And don't get me wrong from time to time I do advertise on craigslist and I even throw in what people call my crazy prices but I don't care what the general public thinks, they are not the people I am seeking.
I apologize if this sounds a little snooty but I do this part time and do it because I enjoy working on great cars for people who appreciate it. Just this weekend alone I was given a tour by a new client who built a hanger outside of town for his 10 cars and wants me to keep up with them, this is what I live for. Long story short just keep working hard and the right people will come about.
C. Charles Hahn
CCH Auto Appearance, LLC
I REALLY hate that kind of stuff. Actually it reminds me of a buddy of mine who always goes around telling people that rotary buffers will ALWAYS burn their paint and leave buffer trails EVERY TIME, and that the only proper way to polish paint is with a DA because "they're safe and produce better results." He doesn't think rotary polishers have any place whatsoever in doing proper paint care.
:crazy:
GothamAuto
New member
Why apologize? Do you think a 5 star restaurant in NYC is apologizing because they don't have prices that compete with McDonalds?
GothamAuto
New member
Yeah, I hear that a lot and it's even sunk into the consciousness of some of the general public as well. I have lost customers because I mention that I use a rotary. Not to mention any names, but a major company with the initials "GG" even has a video stating that no amount of training can help the most professional detailer from ruining paint with a high speed, and that you should only use their product.
Bunky
Detailing Gnosis
There is another company that tries to dismiss the Flex DA -- until they start selling them.
C. Charles Hahn
CCH Auto Appearance, LLC
That's exactly why I have all three of the major types of polishers on hand. Someone tells me not to touch their car with a rotary, I just grab the Flex DA or my G100 and do whatever I can -- though there are times I have to tell them I can't do a full correction without the rotary for one reason or another.
To each their own, I just wish people wouldn't constantly spread such misinformation. :wall
Ivan Rajic
New member
Well said. Skimming through the thread this supports my point (which I am about to make haha) very well.
I think this is a very important topic so I have a lot to say about it haha.. here's the long and short versions... sorry if I'm repeating anyone in the thread, but browsing at work and had no time to read everything...
After detailing for "only" about 4 years regularly and at a quality level where I feel I finally had the knowledge necessary to be called a "top" detailer, I have had great success and am pretty well known throughout Chicago along with Illinois, as well as some of the surrounding states, and by some nationwide.
That said, I started detailing because it was a passion of mine, and I have ALWAYS catered to the enthusiasts who understood quality work took time and money and were willing to get it done. Due to the fact I started out this way, 99.9% of my clients have never questioned my prices, which are in the $30-50/wash, $250+/1-step polishing range. The more and more I got around on google, etc. the past couple years, the more and more calls I get from random people finding me and comparing me to the corner car wash. I will spend an average of 1 minute explaining on the phone why my work is in a completely different universe. If the person doesn't want to swing by for a free inspection after that 1 minute and insists on negotiating with me, I will politely say that I am unfortunately not the right detailer for them at this time. I always say "At this time" as many of my clients are people who simply don't know better, get screwed with a $150-200 "full-detail", then come to me to fix the holograms, etc.
On the other hand, I have never done detailing to "pay the bills". Due to this reason, I could always "stick to my guns" and turn potential clients away. Doing so has, as I said, made me a highly reputable "boutique" detailer and I really appreciate all the comments and reviews by all the clients, but I also do feel that I have done the best job around and have given 110% every time, while being completely honest about the services and prices. However, being in the business for a while now, reading up on material and maturing as more of a business man, as opposed to a car and detailing enthusiast, I have learned that there's a TON of money out there to be made outside of my target market. Meaning that there are MANY people who are willing to pay $150-200 for a "full-detail"/1-step correction instead of paying $250-350. The thing that a lot of us who are after the best correction/protection/techniques/etc. out there misunderstand is that these people are not looking to pay YOU $150 for YOUR $250 service, rather looking to get a similar service, with possibly the same name, for the $150. So instead of slaving away for $150, I would be doing 60% of my original work, trying to do the best job for $150, and as long as the client knows what they're paying for, you're in the clear.
It is for this exact purpose that I created a 2nd detailing business, in addition to my boutique business catering to clients after the top quality. My 2nd business will cater to the clients who aren't doing detailing to perfect their cars and using expendable income, rather offer services of better quality than the competition to clients who "need" to wash/detail their cars properly. So for these clients, Instead of charging $35-40 on a wash, I will charge $15-20, but instead of spending 1hr or more on the wash, I will spend 20-30 minutes.
SHORT VERSION:
If you're detailing to pay the bills, you MUST adjust with the market and demand in your area. You can "stick to your guns" all you want with your higher prices, but the guy charging 60% down the block will take away 90% of your business, and you're out. Considering you're doing high price/high quality work now, in my opinion and from my experience with the 2nd detailing business, the best way to make the transition is to still offer the "boutique" services to the clients who aren't looking for them along with the cheaper services. So if someone intends to spend $150 on a 1-step polishing detail (which includes the usual, wash, light interior, sealant, dressings, etc.) show them a free test spot of a 2-step, and you'll be amazed how many people will opt for the 2-step in that case.
If on the other hand, your intent is to become the next Todd Helme, Todd Cooperider, etc. and you DO NOT need to pay the bills with detailing, by all means stick to your guns and create a name for yourself, your services and your prices by doing 110% each time. It'll take time because the clients I cater to for example, make up probably 1% of our actual population, but over time and depending on how much you advertise, you'll more than likely have a steady client base.
Sorry for the ridiculously long explanation, but figured I'd share the experience I've had and how I deal with the situation, as it's been fairly successful.
Concours.John
Auto Detail & Restoration
I can't possibly agree with Gotham more. When I was fiveteen a friend of my dad asked me to "detail" her car. I knew how to get a car clean and thought that was detailing. She changed my perspective real quick. She would look EVERYWHERE and would make a list hand it to me and say your not done everytime. She was only paying $20 but once I was able to do it and she found nothing she paid 50$ and also sent her co-workers.
I've always done it as a part time job by the hour with no complaints on price,and never cut corners. 15years ago I went full time with a high end restoration shop and learned all the aspects of concours restoration speciallizing in paint.
Point is the whole time I did all the detailing and show prep for the shop by the hour no fixed prices no complaints. Upon that built relationships with collectors and regulars. After being laid off earlier this year everyone who's car I did has called wanting to know what to do and will go where I go. I'm in negotiations on a shop now because of this.
If you do great work people notice. Some may say thats expensive for a detail but maybe have never had a true detail. All it takes is for someone who has had it is to "cheat" and they fully understand. Others just need some education. Hard work and truly learning the field puts you in a better position. Eventually you get to the point where your in the top of the game doing rare pieces. Never judge a book by its cover if I did I wouldn't be doing some of the cars and collections I do.
It's a shame Linda passed before I got to this level. I owe my start to her.
I've always done it as a part time job by the hour with no complaints on price,and never cut corners. 15years ago I went full time with a high end restoration shop and learned all the aspects of concours restoration speciallizing in paint.
Point is the whole time I did all the detailing and show prep for the shop by the hour no fixed prices no complaints. Upon that built relationships with collectors and regulars. After being laid off earlier this year everyone who's car I did has called wanting to know what to do and will go where I go. I'm in negotiations on a shop now because of this.
If you do great work people notice. Some may say thats expensive for a detail but maybe have never had a true detail. All it takes is for someone who has had it is to "cheat" and they fully understand. Others just need some education. Hard work and truly learning the field puts you in a better position. Eventually you get to the point where your in the top of the game doing rare pieces. Never judge a book by its cover if I did I wouldn't be doing some of the cars and collections I do.
It's a shame Linda passed before I got to this level. I owe my start to her.
GothamAuto
New member
Then you don't want those customers to begin with. I tell people to go "down the road" all the time. Let those guys pump out 10 cars a day. 1 of those cars is coming back to me worse then it was before and now the customer has to pay me more to fix the damage inflicted by the guy "down the road".
My advice is to decide what you want to do. I do not feel that you can be both the high end guy and the high volume guy. Just decide what you are, and don't try to be the other.