Do you think wax adds shine?

radarryan said:
And here is where I think the majority of us would disagree... You have to remember that most people who take the time to join a detailing forum, let alone post are, to put it bluntly, obsessed with gloss, shine, however you want to put it. To us, there is no such thing as a negligible amount of shine.

Now, so someone who is just upgrading from going through the local car wash where they advertise the $20 wash n wax special, maybe, in their untrained eye, wax doesn't add anything. It seems after reading your post that that is who this Junkman caters to (I have not seen any of his posts or videos and frankly probably never will, since I'm not looking at how to use a polisher or what is the difference between orange and white pads).

As to your statement that this is out of context: I don't know if that is correct. In fact, it was a private conversation between he and the OP, in which the OP stated that his central thesis was that LSPs don't add shine, gloss, whatever. There is not any context that needs to be put inserted. They disagreed over this singular statement, to which 90%+ of this forum disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no one is arguing that. All we are saying is using a gloss meter, which unfortunately just about as scientific as we can get, there is an upswing in points post LSP.

Now, if you really want to get a firestorm, we can ask the forum if expensive waxes produce a better, or even more, shine than cheap waxes. That is a question that there may be real debate over, but this, at least judging by the posts in this thread, has been pretty well decided.

Happy detailing!
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This is what im saying. He wants to claim wax ONLY adds protection and not shine. Followed up by a video trying to prove this by him tricking people to guess the wax he added and then telling everyone no wax was added and all the shine came from polishing. That video proved nothing more than he did good at polishing. In order to prove he was right he would have needed to add wax to some panels and ask people to guess which panel had the wax.
TacoHerder said:
Here is a video I found that demonstrates what wax can do very well
5 way PREMIUM Carnauba wax comparison - YouTube
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This video alone proves he is wrong, and its just one of many showing how different wax can make the shine. BTW there is a big difference in simply accepting someone opinion and letting them get away off making money giving people false information. If he wants to make videos to sell and try to teach people he needs to get his facts straight first. He knows this too, he just doesn't want to admit he has been wrong so many years.



"
Now, if you really want to get a firestorm, we can ask the forum if expensive waxes produce a better, or even more, shine than cheap waxes. That is a question that there may be real debate over, but this, at least judging by the posts in this thread, has been pretty well decided. "

This is true. I would say expensive waxes depending on which can be well worth their money. I think it goes further than just adding shine. Its ease of application, smell, bead patterns, durability, and more. BFMS goes on and off SUPER smooth and IMO is the best bang for buck if you want to buy a more expensive wax. It may not be my favorite, but its definitely up there with how much you get. I think if the smell was good I might like it more of course.
 
An easy way to tell if wax adds "shine" is to wax something dull or flat and do a 50/50. I've done it - and yes wax ads "shine". That's why you don't wax a matte painted car. Also, people have been waxing furniture and floors for years - yes wax ads shine.
 
Bunky said:
I was saying if you try to put a measurement to it you are falling into the trap because someone will show in some experiment how some LSP's may reduce measured gloss.
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You're absolutely right. I guess I didn't re-read your first comment closely enough. Also, I guess I based it off videos and threads that showed an increase, but that in and of itself shows a selection bias, since if the gloss meter went down I doubt you would put it on the Internet, at least if you're arguing "for" waxes.

Swanic makes a great point regarding matte paints - they require special products that won't increase shine or gloss. If regular wax (Nuba or synthetic) didn't add this characteristic then there wouldn't be a need for the product (though I won't say the product would not have come into existence since if there is a market, there will be a product.)

My point is that we're car guys (and the occasional girl) - if it adds even a negligible amount of shine, we'll do it. I think my postings in this thread pretty well express that. :rockon
 
radarryan said:
My point is that we're car guys (and the occasional girl) - if it adds even a negligible amount of shine, we'll do it. I think my postings in this thread pretty well express that. :rockon
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I just do not think people would put detail spray as a minimum at car shows or wax, etc. for a "negligible" improvement in appearance. Perfect paint does look great.

To me this topic is presented there is some big conspiracy (I know something you do not know) and they are being outed and it serves no real purpose.
 
I found a little experiment I did a while ago. This is the side of my semi-flat black tool box. Part of it has some Swissvax stuff on it. Can you tell where the wax is and where it isn't?

3e7eqeme.jpg
 
I believe the Junkman showed how to correctly use a duster to safely remove as much dust as possible off the car before using waterless wash or a quick detailer. The exact situation the Junkman was talking about was not a conventional waterless wash, it was more like removing light dust and finger prints at a car show.

I also believe the Junkman has stated that if his car is dirtier than that he will only do a two bucket wash to clean his car.
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And there in is the problem. I have had this debate, if you want to call it that, with Junkman. He has stated that a duster is safer than using a waterless wash. I pointed out that microfiber is safer than dirty, paraffin-coated yarn, and that using a high-lubricity formula is safer than dry wiping.

His response was that I was overly technical and he only believed his own eyes. Far enough. I personally don't have enough ego to only trust my eyes, which is why I network with chemists, excellent detailers, product manufacturers and more. One of the reasons I have learned so much, and hopefully am in a position to correctly educate others, is because I know that I don't know everything.

At the end of the day, detailing is very personal. There are a lot of sources of detailing information, and I will continue to work hard and remain educated so that you can rely on the information you read on this forum.
 
Bunky said:
I just do not think people would put detail spray as a minimum at car shows or wax, etc. for a "negligible" improvement in appearance. Perfect paint does look great.
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I understand and agree for the most part, but I guess I was trying to present it as even if it only gives a negligible amount of shine, enthusiasts would still do it. There are a lot of people, though, that apply an extra coat of wax before the show specifically for this reason, at least that was my impression. I think the people using the spray detail spray would be more about removing the dust and fingerprints (if applicable) rather than adding more shine. That being said, if the side effect was just a little more shine, I think people would be all for it.

Look, you have a lot more experience than I do, certainly, and I hope you don't take my responses with offense, or anything other than me just trying to learn about what superb detailers and enthusiasts do to make sure their vehicles are looking as perfect as possible.

Todd Helme said:
I pointed out that microfiber is safer than dirty, paraffin-coated yarn, and that using a high-lubricity formula is safer than dry wiping.
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I have seen the California Duster remove dust without damaging the paint. That being said, this was before I knew a whole heck of a lot more about detailing, and before some of the super lubricity waterless washes came on the market. I also think that the clear coat was pretty hard, not like the soft black Porsche paint that I have now.

I have a California Duster sitting in my garage, hung up, right now. It's collecting dust, for the most part, since I have UWW+ and some other very high quality products and microfiber towels. The Duster says that the "dirtier it gets the better it works." That, to me, is a red flag of sorts. Who here would want something you cannot clean (or if you clean it the effectiveness of the product diminishes)? Will I use the Duster, though I haven't in years? Maybe. I'm just hard pressed to say never...

Todd Helme said:
I personally don't have enough ego to only trust my eyes, which is why I network with chemists, excellent detailers, product manufacturers and more. One of the reasons I have learned so much, and hopefully am in a position to correctly educate others, is because I know that I don't know everything.
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Todd, this is why you have become such a highly regarded resource, because you talk the talk (and back it up with FACTS) as well as walking the walk. Your ego should (rightfully) be through the roof, yet it isn't. Your humbleness is a trait that many could learn from.

Todd Helme said:
I will continue to work hard and remain educated so that you can rely on the information you read on this forum.
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And I, on behalf of everyone, thanks you for that! I am just so glad that I am able to learn proper and advanced car care techniques from you while I'm in my mid 20s (no offense older people, I just have more time left to learn from Todd (I hope :D)). Let's put it this way, I certainly would not be a member of this forum, or active in the least, if you were not in charge and involved. Thanks for everything, Todd!

:rockon
 
Todd Helme said:
And there in is the problem. I have had this debate, if you want to call it that, with Junkman. He has stated that a duster is safer than using a waterless wash. I pointed out that microfiber is safer than dirty, paraffin-coated yarn, and that using a high-lubricity formula is safer than dry wiping.

His response was that I was overly technical and he only believed his own eyes. Far enough. I personally don't have enough ego to only trust my eyes, which is why I network with chemists, excellent detailers, product manufacturers and more. One of the reasons I have learned so much, and hopefully am in a position to correctly educate others, is because I know that I don't know everything.

At the end of the day, detailing is very personal. There are a lot of sources of detailing information, and I will continue to work hard and remain educated so that you can rely on the information you read on this forum.
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Very well said. Thanks
 
After ten years of doing this, eight being professional, i can tell it they do look different. Some dont look different to others, and some look jaw dropping different. When i told Junkman this, he lost the plot at me, swore and told me to get out of his channel. LOL. He thinks he is a guru. Look up Custom Car Care Wagga. Cam, he is a guru. He is unreal.

I have put Duragloss #105 on cars. And it looks very very different to something like DoDo.

Take it as you may. I can see a difference. Yes one is inside a shed and one is outside on a cloudy day....

This WRX had a single stage polish and Poorboys EX-P applied (sealant)




This GT had a single stage polish and Chemical Guys, Butter Wet Wax applied (wax obviously)
 
GlennO87 said:
After ten years of doing this, eight being professional, i can tell it they do look different. Some dont look different to others, and some look jaw dropping different. When i told Junkman this, he lost the plot at me, swore and told me to get out of his channel. LOL. He thinks he is a guru. Look up Custom Car Care Wagga. Cam, he is a guru. He is unreal.

I have put Duragloss #105 on cars. And it looks very very different to something like DoDo.

Take it as you may. I can see a difference. Yes one is inside a shed and one is outside on a cloudy day....

This WRX had a single stage polish and Poorboys EX-P applied (sealant)




This GT had a single stage polish and Chemical Guys, Butter Wet Wax applied (wax obviously)
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Tell Cam that Todd Helme said hi. He is my buddy and partner in crime. I tend to agree with your opinion as well as the opinions of others.

On the internet, with just some videos, anybody can be an expert.
 
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