Do you service car dealers?

[David Fermani]

But to do that $80 detail, I'd have to turn down a full priced privately owned vehicle detail. The more they would give me, the more full priced jobs I turn down, the more it hurts me. I'd cut my income in half.



I can see it working for someone who regularly has open days in their week but a lot of us are pretty much booked all the time.

For someone like you Scott(and many other well established 1 man armys) it would make no sense to be into the dealer business. It also wouldn't make sense for dealers to send you work either with how busy you are. You either are revolving around their business or away from it in this setting. But, I know a couple sole people that only do work for dealers and do great. Both guys are independants that work ons-site at the dealer. They get to cahose all the easy jobs and send the bad ones out to sublet shops. They do 2-4 $90 jobs each day, every day and make about $70K a year doing it.

 

[David Fermani]

You're absolutely right it's all about the profit and it depends on what kind of operation you intend to run. However, I would much rather do 20 full details for a dealer that appreciates a fantastic job with consistent quality that I make a few bucks on than do 50 for minimal profit. In my experience dealers that are interested in low low cost details are the same guys that will drop you at the hint of another detailer doing the cars for a dollar less. Not the kind of work or working relationship I'm interested in.

I’d much rather take the 50 jobs because the work quality, appreciation factor and consistency would be the same, but I’d have more income and more profit coming in. Quality didn’t vary from the dealers that I charged $70 to the ones I charged $100. We did the same level of detailing for all of them. If you continually produce the same good quality, then the dealer will be mindful of it and hopefully keep sending you work. It’s when you stray that it ends up biting you in the butt. Besides the quality factor, it’s key to build relationships within all departments. From porter to store owner/GM. That way it’s a lot harder for the next low ball operation entering the market hitting them on price to never get the time of day. It's called value and dealers that I'm familiar with usually appreciated it.

 

[Scottwax]

Rarely. I get calls for problem cars that their detail departments can't handle, fixing customer complaints about poor detailing service, and special interest vehicles for particular buyers. I have a few small dealers that recognize that spending a little more to get the vehicle done properly helps improve inventory turnover. But I don't market to them in any way- if they want it done right and are willing to pay they'll find you.

I get referrals from a dealership (they don't do overspray) but that's about it these days.

 

[safetyman2010]

For someone like you Scott(and many other well established 1 man armys) it would make no sense to be into the dealer business. It also wouldn't make sense for dealers to send you work either with how busy you are. You either are revolving around their business or away from it in this setting. But, I know a couple sole people that only do work for dealers and do great. Both guys are independants that work ons-site at the dealer. They get to cahose all the easy jobs and send the bad ones out to sublet shops. They do 2-4 $90 jobs each day, every day and make about $70K a year doing it.

I have up to 10 guys working for me David depending on the season and as I stated earlier 40% of my work is dealer work. I'm in business to make money, not peanuts. The profit margins where I am at anything less than I am charging while still doing an acceptable job are non-existant. I'm not in the business of making myself an employee (and a low paid one) of a dealership to meet an arbitrary lowball price a dealer sets - I know my business...I know my costs. Try going into a dealer and demanding the same kind of arrangement buying cars from them and see how quickly you are escorted off the property. There is money to be made doing dealer cars but not at the ridiculous discounts some detailers submit themselves to just to be "busy". Busy does not = profitable.

 

[safetyman2010]

I’d much rather take the 50 jobs because the work quality, appreciation factor and consistency would be the same, but I’d have more income and more profit coming in. Quality didn’t vary from the dealers that I charged $70 to the ones I charged $100. We did the same level of detailing for all of them. If you continually produce the same good quality, then the dealer will be mindful of it and hopefully keep sending you work. It’s when you stray that it ends up biting you in the butt. Besides the quality factor, it’s key to build relationships within all departments. From porter to store owner/GM. That way it’s a lot harder for the next low ball operation entering the market hitting them on price to never get the time of day. It's called value and dealers that I'm familiar with usually appreciated it.

I would be interested in you breaking down your costs and profit margins at $70 and $100 a car.

 

[David Fermani]

I have up to 10 guys working for me David depending on the season and as I stated earlier 40% of my work is dealer work. I'm in business to make money, not peanuts. The profit margins where I am at anything less than I am charging while still doing an acceptable job are non-existant. I'm not in the business of making myself an employee (and a low paid one) of a dealership to meet an arbitrary lowball price a dealer sets - I know my business...I know my costs. Try going into a dealer and demanding the same kind of arrangement buying cars from them and see how quickly you are escorted off the property.

I agree. I never insinuated that you or any other members here work for a dealer in that manner. Simply shared my personal experiences so people could be aware that this scenario existed.

There is money to be made doing dealer cars but not at the ridiculous discounts some detailers submit themselves to just to be "busy". Busy does not = profitable.

I totally disagree. Those ridiculous discounts I submitted myself to equated to $500,000 in revenue per year, for several years. I know several other operators that still operate successfully within and above this level and @ this dealer rate structure.

I would be interested in you breaking down your costs and profit margins at $70 and $100 a car.

That’s easy. My contractors were paid 35-50%(depending on pay arrangements) of the sales ticket. They paid for all their own expenses associated with completing the detail. I paid rent, utilities & insurance. I had 8 people at all times doing 25-35 details each day, 6 days a week for 15 different New/Used car dealers. Details ranged from New Car Preps, full recons, Body Shop spiffs, used car re-cleans, warranty paint repairs as well as retail customers. In the 10+ years of owning/operating the business, I never lost 1 dealer account. That says a lot about the quality we produced as well as my ability as an account manager. Low Ballers approached my dealers regularly, but were never successful at taking any of the accounts from me. If they did, they ended up coming back shortly after.



**Basic Breakdown** -

$500,000 - Sales

-$250,000 – Labor

-$24,000 – Rent

-$2000 – Insurance

-$4000 – Utilities

===============

$220,000 – Profit before personal expenses.



Can you explain what your breakdown looks like in comparison?

 

[safetyman2010]

I agree. I never insinuated that you or any other members here work for a dealer in that manner. Simply shared my personal experiences so people could be aware that this scenario existed.







I totally disagree. Those ridiculous discounts I submitted myself to equated to $500,000 in revenue per year, for several years. I know several other operators that still operate successfully within and above this level and @ this dealer rate structure.







That’s easy. My contractors were paid 35-50%(depending on pay arrangements) of the sales ticket. They paid for all their own expenses associated with completing the detail. I paid rent, utilities & insurance. I had 8 people at all times doing 25-35 details each day, 6 days a week for 15 different New/Used car dealers. Details ranged from New Car Preps, full recons, Body Shop spiffs, used car re-cleans, warranty paint repairs as well as retail customers. In the 10+ years of owning/operating the business, I never lost 1 dealer account. That says a lot about the quality we produced as well as my ability as an account manager. Low Ballers approached my dealers regularly, but were never successful at taking any of the accounts from me. If they did, they ended up coming back shortly after.



**Basic Breakdown** -

$500,000 - Sales

-$250,000 – Labor

-$24,000 – Rent

-$2000 – Insurance

-$4000 – Utilities

===============

$220,000 – Profit before personal expenses.



Can you explain what your breakdown looks like in comparison?

You say you use contractors - can you explain how exactly you are getting around labor law regarding this? Do these "contractors" work for other detailers or dealerships as well?

 

[David Fermani]

You say you use contractors - can you explain how exactly you are getting around labor law regarding this? Do these "contractors" work for other detailers or dealerships as well?

This should explain what you're looking for:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/detailing-business-management-marketing/134947-paying-employees.html

I have up to 10 guys working for me David depending on the season and as I stated earlier 40% of my work is dealer work. I'm in business to make money, not peanuts. The profit margins where I am at anything less than I am charging while still doing an acceptable job are non-existant. I know my business...I know my costs.

Do you mind sharing your basic expenses, rates & employee structuring with us? I'd be interested to see how you're unable to turn a respectable profit at lower margins. Especially with 10 employees and already having a somewhat dealer-centric operation.

 

[safetyman2010]

This should explain what you're looking for:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/detailing-business-management-marketing/134947-paying-employees.html

Set them up as Sub-Contractors and give them a % of the job. You'll end up saving lots of money, paying your people more and having them work harder. Get with your attorney & accountant for coaching on how to set this up.

Reason I asked this David is to my understanding if the "contractor" only works for you - they cease to be a contractor and are considered by law, an employee. I have investigated this at length in the past as it would save me considerable amounts of money on wage costs. Here are the US laws for determining if you have employees or independent contractors.

To determine whether an individual is an employee or an independent contractor under the common law, the relationship of the worker and the business must be examined. All evidence of control and independence must be considered. In any employee-independent contractor determination, all information that provides evidence of the degree of control and the degree of independence must be considered.



Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories: behavioral control, financial control, and the type of relationship of the parties as shown below.



Behavioral control. Facts that show whether the business has a right to direct and control how the worker does the task for which the worker is hired include the type and degree of--



Instructions the business gives the worker. An employee is generally subject to the business' instructions about when, where, and how to work. All of the following are examples of types of instructions about how to do work:



When and where to do the work

What tools or equipment to use

What workers to hire or to assist with the work

Where to purchase supplies and services

What work must be performed by a specified individual

What order or sequence to follow

The amount of instruction needed varies among different jobs. Even if no instructions are given, sufficient behavioral control may exist if the employer has the right to control how the work results are achieved. A business may lack the knowledge to instruct some highly specialized professionals; in other cases, the task may require little or no instruction. The key consideration is whether the business has retained the right to control the details of a worker's performance or instead has given up that right.



Training the business gives the worker. An employee may be trained to perform services in a particular manner. Independent contractors ordinarily use their own methods.



Financial control. Facts that show whether the business has a right to control the business aspects of the worker's job include:



The extent to which the worker has unreimbursed business expenses. Independent contractors are more likely to have unreimbursed expenses than are employees. Fixed ongoing costs that are incurred regardless of whether work is currently being performed are especially important. However, employees may also incur unreimbursed expenses in connection with the services they perform for their business.



The extent of the worker's investment. An independent contractor often has a significant investment in the facilities he or she uses in performing services for someone else. However, a significant investment is not necessary for independent contractor status.



The extent to which the worker makes services available to the relevant market. An independent contractor is generally free to seek out business opportunities. Independent contractors often advertise, maintain a visible business location, and are available to work in the relevant market.



How the business pays the worker. An employee is generally guaranteed a regular wage amount for an hourly, weekly, or other period of time. This usually indicates that a worker is an employee, even when the wage or salary is supplemented by a commission. An independent contractor is usually paid by a flat fee for the job. However, it is common in some professions, such as law, to pay independent contractors hourly.



The extent to which the worker can realize a profit or loss. An independent contractor can make a profit or loss.



Type of relationship. Facts that show the parties' type of relationship include:



Written contracts describing the relationship the parties intended to create.

Whether the business provides the worker with employee-type benefits, such as insurance, a pension plan, vacation pay, or sick pay.

The permanency of the relationship. If you engage a worker with the expectation that the relationship will continue indefinitely, rather than for a specific project or period, this is generally considered evidence that your intent was to create an employer-employee relationship.

The extent to which services performed by the worker are a key aspect of the regular business of the company. If a worker provides services that are a key aspect of your regular business activity, it is more likely that you will have the right to direct and control his or her activities. For example, if a law firm hires an attorney, it is likely that it will present the attorney's work as its own and would have the right to control or direct that work. This would indicate an employer-employee relationship.

In Canada, it is patently Illegal to try and classify an employee as an independent contractor to avoid paying wage associated costs such as EI, CPP, WSIB, Vacation pay and stat holiday pay. I have had several detail operation on my area try it and been pounded by the government once caught hence my interest in your assertion that you are able to do it. Canadian law is similar to the US and is as follows:

Are you an independent contractor or an employee? If this question sends shivers down your spine at tax time, you’re not alone. The difference between an employee relationship and a business relationship is not cut and dried and having the Canada Revenue Agency determine that you’re an employee after all can have very expensive repercussions for both you and your employer.



Employers like to hire independent contractors. Hiring a contractor means a lot less rigmarole than hiring an employee and can be less expensive, too. Contractors don’t get benefit packages or pensions and pay their own CPP/QPP contributions. As an employer of an independent contractor, you don’t have to withhold income tax or pay a share of CPP/QPP or EI.



The big tax advantage for the independent contractor, of course, is the potential for tax deductions. Generally, a self-employed person can deduct all reasonable business expenses.



Sounds great, doesn’t it? But if a business hires a contractor who is later deemed to be an employee, both parties lose big as unpaid taxes, penalties, interest, CPP and EI premiums will all have to be paid.



Because the employee relationship and the business relationship is one of those gray areas that is constantly in flux, it’s important to do what you can to protect your independent contractor status.



First, you need to be aware of the “four-point test” that the Canada Revenue Agency uses to determine which type of relationship exists. “Employee or Self-Employed?” (RC4110) “sets out a method that should, in most cases, allow payers and workers to determine the nature of their relationship.” The method is based on four key points; control, ownership of tools, chance of profit/risk of loss, and integration. Let’s look at each of these from the point of view of the contractor.



1. Independent contractor vs. employee: Control



The primary issue here is who’s running the ship. Does the employer have the right to hire or fire, determine the wage or salary to be paid, and decide on the time, place, and manner in which the work is to be done? Then an employer-employee relationship exists. Note that “if the employer does not directly control the worker's activities, but has the right to do so, the notion of control still exists.”



On the other hand, in a business relationship, the worker decides how the work will be performed. As a contractor, then, it’s important that you maintain the right to decide where, when and how the work will be done. If it comes to the test, and you can show that you were the person responsible for planning the work to be done, choosing the hours of work, and/or setting the standards to be met, for example, you’ll have a much better chance of being deemed a contractor rather than an employee.



2. Independent contractor vs. employee: Ownership of tools.



An obvious point, one would think; a contractor would supply his own tools. However, because it’s customary for employees to supply their own tools in some trades (think of painters and garage mechanics, for example), the cost of using the tools is a much better indication, according to the Canada Revenue Agency. “When workers purchase or rent equipment or large tools that require a major investment and costly maintenance, it usually indicates that they are self-employed individuals, because they may incur losses when replacing or repairing their equipment.”



3. Independent contractor vs. employee: Chance of profit/risk of loss.



In this case, whether you’re involved in an employer-employee relationship or a business relationship depends on your financial involvement. Do you have a chance of making a profit? Do you run the risk of incurring losses due to bad debts, damage to equipment or materials, or delays? Do you cover the operating costs? If these three things are true, you’re a contractor, not an employee.



4. Independent contractor vs. employee: Integration.



This appears to be a further attempt to divine the intention of the parties involved. The Canada Revenue Agency states, “Where the worker integrates the payer's activities to his own commercial activities, a business relationship probably exists... Where the worker integrates his activities to the commercial activities of the payer, an employer-employee relationship probably exists.” Exactly how one would determine such integration is not laid out. “Employee or Self-Employed?” seems to treat this point as a summary category calling for a review of the other three.

 

[safetyman2010]

Do you mind sharing your basic expenses, rates & employee structuring with us? I'd be interested to see how you're unable to turn a respectable profit at lower margins. Especially with 10 employees and already having a somewhat dealer-centric operation.

to answer your question it is important first to determine wage costs, as I already illustrated in my previous post that hiring independent contractors is illegal to reduce wage costs. The minimum wage in my province is $10.25 - that is the absolute cheapest employee I can hire. I am also required by law to pay each employee 4% of gross for vacation pay, match their CPP contribution, pay 1.4x their EI contribution, pay approx. 3.3% of gross for WSIB and pay every employee for 9 public holidays. The standard formula to easily gauge an approximate cost for wages is to multiply wage x 1.35 = approximate wage costs. Therefore, $10.25 actually costs just under $14 an hour for my cheapest employee.



Now with respect to dealer cars there are several things to consider:

- time to pick up ad deliver the car

- time to detail inspect the car

- costs associated with waiting to be paid (we bill monthly which is standard here)

- cost of fixed business costs (rent/heat/hydro etc.....)

- cost of material



So, in detailing a typical car for a dealer we can assume:

- 1 hour pick up & delivery time (15 minutes each way - twice)

- 3-4 hours to properly detail the engine/doorjambs/fully shampoo and detail the interior and at least spot polish and wax the exterior/glass



I have seen the jobs that the lowball detailers do and it is abundantly obvious that they do not expend anywhere near the time or care that we do. It's not uncommon for us to see vehicles that other shops have done that have not been waxed or polished and only had a vacuum run through them - no shampoo. Not the kind of work we do or want associated with my business. Even with wholesale work for dealers I demand a certain level of quality that I am unwilling to compromise on. Here are a few examples of cars we have re-detailed the had already been "detailed" by the fly by nighters

Now, assuming we are spending 3-4 hours to detail and inspect a car and up to an hour to pick up and deliver it we are into a MINIMUM of 4 hours per car which would equate to $56 in labour cost alone assuming the labour was all performed by a minimum wage employee (not even close at my shop). Add to that the cost of doing the work and holding the cost of doing the work for up to 60 days to get paid, add in your costs for materials and fixed costs and at $100 what did you make? NOTHING. I was doing $100 details 10 years ago, killing myself to do it and so insanely busy I couldn't believe it. However, after examining the costs, effort and profit from these jobs we dumped it and raised our prices and continue to do so as our costs rise. I'm not interested in becoming a low wage employee for a dealership - if I was I wouldn't carry all the risk of owning a business to do it. My point? I've been dong this for over 18 years, I know people all over the world that do this and have never, ever met anyone that made any money doing low cost, volume details for dealers. The numbers don't add up unless you're doing absolute crap 1 hour mop and glo jobs.

 

[RenuAuto]

Very interesting discussion going back and forth here. Carry on.



opcorn:

 

[David Fermani]

Reason I asked this David is to my understanding if the "contractor" only works for you - they cease to be a contractor and are considered by law, an employee. I have investigated this at length in the past as it would save me considerable amounts of money on wage costs. Here are the US laws for determining if you have employees or independent contractors.

I’m aware of that requirement and it’s why I included that specification in my prior description in the “Paying Employees” thread here:

So far, over 17 years and counting. No worries.

In summary -

*All workers have DBAs

*All sign Sub-Contractor agreements

*We pay their DBA, not them personally

*They are responsible for their Workers Comp & Taxes

*They are 1099 misc yearly

*All have their own tools & products

*Each chemical supplier invoices their business, not us

*Paid per vehicle - not hourly or salary

*Free to come and go - no set hours or schedule

*Can work for any Contractor they wish

I have seen the jobs that the lowball detailers do and it is abundantly obvious that they do not expend anywhere near the time or care that we do. It's not uncommon for us to see vehicles that other shops have done that have not been waxed or polished and only had a vacuum run through them - no shampoo. Not the kind of work we do or want associated with my business. Even with wholesale work for dealers I demand a certain level of quality that I am unwilling to compromise on. Here are a few examples of cars we have re-detailed the had already been "detailed" by the fly by nighters

Those pictures are disgusting. I don’t know of any shops that could last producing quality (or lack of) like that. Yeah, everyone deserves a mulligan every now and then, but anything more is a recipe for dealer termination. 1st pic looks like it came right from the body shop (crappy repaint too) and they just slung compound all over the place? The truck with the missed engine is complete nonsense and I would hope isn’t a common occurance. Ouch. The quality of the interiors, windows, wheel wells, engines and door jambs my shop produced were on par with anything you’d see here in the top tier Click N Brag. Exteriors were clayed, de-tar’d, and 2 stepped via rotary. We didn’t apply wax or dress interiors on dealer cars either. The final polishing/glaze step performed lasted and beaded water throughout their entire stay on the lot which is all they cared about. We also didn't dress 99% or interiors either. Dealers (not I) didn't care for it. (Wax/Dressing=waste of time/product) Every vehicle went through a detailed QC by 1 or more people including myself.

to answer your question it is important first to determine wage costs, as I already illustrated in my previous post that hiring independent contractors is illegal to reduce wage costs. The minimum wage in my province is $10.25 - that is the absolute cheapest employee I can hire. I am also required by law to pay each employee 4% of gross for vacation pay, match their CPP contribution, pay 1.4x their EI contribution, pay approx. 3.3% of gross for WSIB and pay every employee for 9 public holidays. The standard formula to easily gauge an approximate cost for wages is to multiply wage x 1.35 = approximate wage costs. Therefore, $10.25 actually costs just under $14 an hour for my cheapest employee.



Now with respect to dealer cars there are several things to consider:

- time to pick up ad deliver the car

- time to detail inspect the car

- costs associated with waiting to be paid (we bill monthly which is standard here)

- cost of fixed business costs (rent/heat/hydro etc.....)

- cost of material



So, in detailing a typical car for a dealer we can assume:

- 1 hour pick up & delivery time (15 minutes each way - twice)

- 3-4 hours to properly detail the engine/doorjambs/fully shampoo and detail the interior and at least spot polish and wax the exterior/glass



Now, assuming we are spending 3-4 hours to detail and inspect a car and up to an hour to pick up and deliver it we are into a MINIMUM of 4 hours per car which would equate to $56 in labour cost alone assuming the labour was all performed by a minimum wage employee (not even close at my shop). Add to that the cost of doing the work and holding the cost of doing the work for up to 60 days to get paid, add in your costs for materials and fixed costs and at $100 what did you make? NOTHING. I was doing $100 details 10 years ago, killing myself to do it and so insanely busy I couldn't believe it. However, after examining the costs, effort and profit from these jobs we dumped it and raised our prices and continue to do so as our costs rise.

Thanks for the thorough explanation. I never realized how many hoops Canadian business owners had to go through just to make a living detailing cars. Breaking down every operation of doing a dealer detail and the cost associated with each is like mental masturbation IMHO. I look at the bottom line of how much work they’re sending and how much it costs to complete it. I don’t see how anyone’s breakeven point would be ~$100 unless you’re not producing enough volume, too high of labor, too high of overhead or mismanagement. In your case you certainly have high labor costs due to all the things you have to buy into being in Canada. I can assure you that isn’t the case where I’m from.

My point? I've been dong this for over 18 years, I know people all over the world that do this and have never, ever met anyone that made any money doing low cost, volume details for dealers. The numbers don't add up unless you're doing absolute crap 1 hour mop and glo jobs.

That’s a pretty bold blanket statement. Not only am I an exception to your rule, but I know dozens of shops that cater to reduced-cost wholesale details and have been quite profitable for multiple decades doing it. Here’s a couple that I know of in my general area:





Car Wash, Detailing, & Auto Cleaning: Detroit, MI - 40 years



ProFinish Auto Detailing, Inc. - 23 years



Great Lakes Chemical - 20 years



Auto Service Plymouth, MI - Brown's Auto Glazing & Detail Shop - 20 years



www.supremedetailing&accessories.com/Home - 20 years



Crystal Clean Auto Detailing LLC



You can’t deny that if someone’s been in this business that long primarily doing dealer work, they can’t be producing results that their clients aren’t appreciating. Yeah, it may not be on par with Autopian OCD principals, but as long as it’s more than expected for the customer if won’t matter because the dealer is going to sell it anyways and the customer isn’t going to know the difference. Clean and shiny prevails in this niche of the business along with reducing costs and touch times.

 

[safetyman2010]

I’m aware of that requirement and it’s why I included that specification in my prior description in the “Paying Employees” thread here:













Those pictures are disgusting. I don’t know of any shops that could last producing quality (or lack of) like that. Yeah, everyone deserves a mulligan every now and then, but anything more is a recipe for dealer termination. 1st pic looks like it came right from the body shop (crappy repaint too) and they just slung compound all over the place? The truck with the missed engine is complete nonsense and I would hope isn’t a common occurance. Ouch. The quality of the interiors, windows, wheel wells, engines and door jambs my shop produced were on par with anything you’d see here in the top tier Click N Brag. Exteriors were clayed, de-tar’d, and 2 stepped via rotary. We didn’t apply wax or dress interiors on dealer cars either. The final polishing/glaze step performed lasted and beaded water throughout their entire stay on the lot which is all they cared about. We also didn't dress 99% or interiors either. Dealers (not I) didn't care for it. (Wax/Dressing=waste of time/product) Every vehicle went through a detailed QC by 1 or more people including myself.











Thanks for the thorough explanation. I never realized how many hoops Canadian business owners had to go through just to make a living detailing cars. Breaking down every operation of doing a dealer detail and the cost associated with each is like mental masturbation IMHO. I look at the bottom line of how much work they’re sending and how much it costs to complete it. I don’t see how anyone’s breakeven point would be ~$100 unless you’re not producing enough volume, too high of labor, too high of overhead or mismanagement. In your case you certainly have high labor costs due to all the things you have to buy into being in Canada. I can assure you that isn’t the case where I’m from.











That’s a pretty bold blanket statement. Not only am I an exception to your rule, but I know dozens of shops that cater to reduced-cost wholesale details and have been quite profitable for multiple decades doing it. Here’s a couple that I know of in my general area:





Car Wash, Detailing, & Auto Cleaning: Detroit, MI - 40 years



ProFinish Auto Detailing, Inc. - 23 years



Great Lakes Chemical - 20 years



Auto Service Plymouth, MI - Brown's Auto Glazing & Detail Shop - 20 years



www.supremedetailing&accessories.com/Home - 20 years



Crystal Clean Auto Detailing LLC



You can’t deny that if someone’s been in this business that long primarily doing dealer work, they can’t be producing results that their clients aren’t appreciating. Yeah, it may not be on par with Autopian OCD principals, but as long as it’s more than expected for the customer if won’t matter because the dealer is going to sell it anyways and the customer isn’t going to know the difference. Clean and shiny prevails in this niche of the business along with reducing costs and touch times.

Pretty amazing that work like those pictures can honestly get done and sadly some dealers are fine with it as long as the "detailing" meets their price point. For instance, the crown vic I posted a picture of was supposed to be detailed by us but the service manager brought in another guy that wasn't even cheaper but would work at night. He didn't clean the engine bay, didn't clean the rims at all, did a horrible job washing the car and didn't polish or wax it, ran a vacuum through it quickly but never removed the mats or moved the seats, didn't open the trunk at all and never shampooed anything. Next day I got my *** chewed by the GSM thinking we did it until he found out what happened. Common occurrence at that dealer and we actually fired them as a customer back in 2003 due to the sheer nonsense that went on there. They came back and asked for us to do their work again in 2008 and things were better but the lowball crap continued until we were showed the door this spring and told "I don't care if I get 50% of the quality you provide if the next guy is cheaper/faster". They simply don't care about the quality unless someone complains.



Anyways, yeah the rules and regulations here are cut and dry on the labor stuff - you cannot designate someone an IC under the circumstances we deal with at my shop or 90% of most shops. We have IC for our tint/fabric repairs/PDR but that's easy to justify. If you can make it work and be legal that's awesome and would save a ton of money. Under the law here you can't even farm out piece work and enforce it as the employee is still entitled to the minimum wage for every hour they work regardless of any deal you make with respect to trying to setting a book rate to control costs. I'll also add that just because people have been in business a long time doesn't mean they do good work or make any money. There are several shops in my area that somehow scrape by, year after year but never turn a profit. I've seen the Crystal Clean guys and IIRC they charge minimum $150 a car as well for dealers. If it's working for you, awesome. I'm just saying the average guy will never make money doing it and should be well aware of the costs and potential profit or loss before attempting it.

 

[David Fermani]

I think you're right about Ross's shop which is nothing short of incredible. But heck, with a 40,000 square foot place he better be charging atleast that much! Spoke to him a short while ago and I'm supposed to do a tour and post a write up here for him.

 

[safetyman2010]

I think you're right about Ross's shop which is nothing short of incredible. But heck, with a 40,000 square foot place he better be charging atleast that much! Spoke to him a short while ago and I'm supposed to do a tour and post a write up here for him.

yeah I would love to check it out but it's too far for me. Where are you located in Detroit? I'm only 2 hours from you.

 

[David Fermani]

Grosse Pointe. Practically walking distance from the Windsor Tunnel.

 

[safetyman2010]

Grosse Pointe. Practically walking distance from the Windsor Tunnel.

Know the area well. My dad was from Windsor originally. Are you going to Novi for the expo on the 31st?

 

[David Fermani]

My Dad too!! Use to go to Windsor on a regular basis.



Yup. Definately will be at the Expo. Need to do a bunch of research for my next proposed project. (Hand Car Wash & DS). Wasn't sure what day I was planning but will certainly shoot for the 31st. Would be great to meet you!

 

[VW 91]

My Dad too!! Use to go to Windsor on a regular basis.



Yup. Definately will be at the Expo. Need to do a bunch of research for my next proposed project. (Hand Car Wash & DS). Wasn't sure what day I was planning but will certainly shoot for the 31st. Would be great to meet you!

Small world, I'm from the Windsor area too. In April I plan on opening a Hand Car Wash & DS in my hometown of Amherstburg, just 20 min south of Windsor.

 

[safetyman2010]

My Dad too!! Use to go to Windsor on a regular basis.



Yup. Definately will be at the Expo. Need to do a bunch of research for my next proposed project. (Hand Car Wash & DS). Wasn't sure what day I was planning but will certainly shoot for the 31st. Would be great to meet you!

Yeah my dads whole family was from all over that area originally before moving to Toronto. I'll be at the seminars at the convention that Bud is doing on the 31st at some point - depends on what time I get rolling from here. If you're around itsvalways great to meet another operator