Do you Dawn wash??

[1 Clean WS6]

Hey all!



I was wondering how many folks do the Dawn wash process as I have been seeing a bunch of posts that include this step. Personally I have never done it. In my case if I need to remove a product I'll use a water/alcohol mix or some Griot's Paint Prep.



If you do Dawn wash I'd like to know why you wash with it and how often you use this process.



Mike

 

[Woob]

No Dawn. I use Hi Temp Prep Wash. Great uses for a 32 oz. Grabbing a gallon next time!

 

[jimmybuffit]

Dawn belongs in the kitchen.



Mfgs who promote the use of Dawn (a very high pH detergent) should seriously reconsider their position. And their chemistry education...



There are MANY other options for obtaining a clean, pH neutral, decontaminated surface.



Jim

 

[Scottwax]

Nope, never. The only time I would consider it is if I am stripping a car for a repaint. I prefer to use polishes to remove any old wax, etc.

 

[RedondoV6]

...Mfgs who promote the use of Dawn (a very high pH detergent) should seriously reconsider their position. And their chemistry education...

Jimmy, you might want to reconsider this statement, especially the remark about other peoples chemistry education.



Contary to popular belief Dawn does NOT have a high PH value. Even in 50/50 solution is barely registers PH8! That's very similar to many car wash shampoos. (I'm looking at the litmus test as I type)

 

[stilez]

Dawn belongs in the kitchen.



Mfgs who promote the use of Dawn (a very high pH detergent) should seriously reconsider their position. And their chemistry education...



There are MANY other options for obtaining a clean, pH neutral, decontaminated surface.



Jim

Agreed :up





A regular wash followed by a clay barring procedure and polishing is the road to success for paint prep.



Dawn really isn't promoting a cleaner surface.

 

[jimmybuffit]

This from the Dawn Homepage:

Ok to wash car?

Oops! I gotta go back and copy some more..

Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your car.

I'm gonna emphasize what P&G's Dawn Website clearly says:



"Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your car."



Sal, are you listening?



Jim

 

[topnotchtouch]

Jimmy, you might want to reconsider this statement, especially the remark about other peoples chemistry education.



Contary to popular belief Dawn does NOT have a high PH value. Even in 50/50 solution is barely registers PH8! That's very similar to many car wash shampoos. (I'm looking at the litmus test as I type)

Are you sure about your measurements. The MSDS on P&G's website states a PH of 8 in a 1% solution. I imagine a 50% solution would likely be much higher than 8.



EDIT: Evidently P&G has changed their MSDS as I specifically recall the statement of PH of 8 in a 1% solution and now it just states a PH of 8-9.



I think people have latched onto the PH thing ignoring other issues. Sure Dawn has a PH of 8-9. I think we can all agree that Dawn strips wax?? For comparison Meguiars 00 Hi Tech Wash which contains absolutely no detergents also has a PH of 8-9. I think anyone that is familiar with that product will tell you that it does NOT strip wax. What does that tell you? It is not just a factor of PH.

 

[RedondoV6]

Are you sure about your measurements. The MSDS on P&G's website states a PH of 8 in a 1% solution. I imagine a 50% solution would likely be much higher than 8.



EDIT: Evidently P&G has changed their MSDS as I specifically recall the statement of PH of 8 in a 1% solution and now it just states a PH of 8-9.

Dunno Bob ... I tested a mix of one egg cup of distilled water to one of original blue Dawn. 4 strips, two different test kits, they all came out the same at PH8. Undiluted it is testing at PH9.



As a reference point I recently tested A2Z at PH13 with the same kits. I would consider A2Z a strong base. People still use it on their clearcoated wheels though!



I think Mr. Chemist reported about the same findings on Dawn when the same subject was discussed recently, but I would have to go back and check.

 

[svanderbilt]

Seems like there are so many car-specific products to be used, than to copy what my no-nothing-about-detailing neighbors use to wash their car. I keep my Dawn in the kitchen, for that once a month when I do dishes.

 

[paco]

Mike,



Have you ever tested any other brands of dish soap to see what they come out as. I recall reading that Ivory or Sunlight might actually be more alkaline than Dawn.



Paco

 

[thinksnow]

Nein. Strong mix of NXT and Sonus is the strongest I use. Pre-Zaino, I'll wash and use FPII (on the 'Cord). I can see no other reason to use such a trim-battling shampoo on the sled aside from the Zargument (yes, it's one word).

 

[imported_memnuts]

Dawn belongs in the kitchen.



Mfgs who promote the use of Dawn (a very high pH detergent) should seriously reconsider their position. And their chemistry education...



There are MANY other options for obtaining a clean, pH neutral, decontaminated surface.



Jim

In all due respect my take is a little different.



Basic chemistry states that dilution of said base (DAWN) in the concentration needed to do the job (wash) is significantly lowered (approaching pH 7). This Dawn/water solution is far closer to neutral pH than the acid rain a vehicle is exposed to. Note: do not confuse the effect of hi (excess) -OH and H+ active particles is a solution and their potential to cause harm or even clean. The pH of one’s stomach contents is very close to 1 or 2 and creates no harm to the normal stomach specialized lining cells. When these acid-producing cells create too much acid or chronically exposed the stomach lining to this acidic solution, harm does occur - ulcer. This same pH solution of HCl will cause severe burns of the skin. What’s the point? The assumption that a non-neutral solution will harm automotive seals, paint, rubber etc from a single short exposure time is unfounded. We are talking here about a one time / year exposure using a product that has active ingredients (surfactants and other agents) that removes oils. As stated earlier and here the Dawn solution pH is close to neutral and has no effect of the cleaning/stripping action. Give vehicle manufcturers some credit in their development of automotive paints and finishes that they took in consideration the harsh environment that their vehicles will face and the inappropriate "chronic" use of products to maintain them.



Other options yes and can be used if available. The false justification and misunderstood science for non usage of Dawn or any equivalent product with the same surfactant activity is also off-base. :nono The pH myth just does not stand up to science in this situation. pH is not a bad thing. It is just a measurement of H+ and OH- activity in a solution. Neutrality of a solution does not always mean good. Life and normal functioning of our bodies require varying pH body fluids and when all body fluids approach pH 7, things are not all good.



As a side note, I guess I also should save my vinegar (water spots) for my salads, Bon Ami (great glass cleaner/polisher for the kitchen porcelain, oil (glazes, and carnauba) for my crankcase and salads again, Woolite for my delicate clothing .All these items have expanded usages for vehicle maintenance and corresponding automotive specific products are also available. Nevertheless we still use them in appropriate situations with great results.

I understand that Dawn and other stripping products are like Kryptonite (misspell??) to glaze and filler users. This product will/has humbled me with what it will expose of the true condition of one painted finish when all the goo is gone. :scared



I thought we killed this Dawn myth awhile back. :nixweiss

 

[RedondoV6]

Mike,



Have you ever tested any other brands of dish soap to see what they come out as. I recall reading that Ivory or Sunlight might actually be more alkaline than Dawn.



Paco

Paco.. no but I'll be happy to test them if you like? An extra few bottles of dish soap will not take long to use up over the holidays, especially with how I burn food!



For anyone interested in testing their own car care products, I purchased the litmus test strips at an educational supplies store, very cheap ... around $3 for each kit of 30 to 40 strips.

 

[RedondoV6]

..... As a side note, I guess I also should save my vinegar (water spots) for my salads, Bon Ami (great glass cleaner/polisher for the kitchen porcelain, oil (glazes, and carnauba) for my crankcase and salads again, Woolite for my delicate clothing. All these items have expanded usages for vehicle maintenance and corresponding automotive specific products are also available. Nevertheless we still use them in appropriate situations with great results.



I thought we killed this Dawn myth awhile back. :nixweiss

Amen to that! :bow



I'm not sure why we even needed this poll, or what it is going to achieve but if we really MUST have it, lets at least get the facts about the product right and keep the discussion in some perspective. Is this really an important subject? I think not.

 

[Brad B]

My gosh people make such a big deal of this. And it isn't. This is something you do ONCE to clean the old waxes of your car. Nobody says wash your car every day in it. Sure, it's too harsh for that. It's far less invasive than polishing your car to remove waxes. It's not taking off surface material, in some cases it won't even take off quality sealants like Zaino or Klasse.





I posted this before. Here's what a institutional cleaners chemist reported:



"I might have mentioned in some earlier post that I am a formulations chemist working for a large chemical company in the area of household and institutional cleaners-dish liquids and car wash soaps included. Just to quell some of the paranoia that seems to be circling around the use of hand dish liquids on auto paint, let me just clarify a few things. In a nutshell, car wash liquids and dish liquids utilize the same type of surfactant system (without getting too technical). They also contain what are called builders (salts), foam boosters for asthetic purposes (foam is another myth in itsef as it has nothing to do with cleaning, it is a consumer perception) and in some instances an amount of solvent in the form of an alcohol. What makes certain dish liquids more agressive than others, Dawn in particular, are the levels in which the grease cutting surfactants are used and also the concentration of the product itsef. Dawn is an industry leader and a premium brand with a fairly high concentration of actives. Other brands, particularly private label brands (store brands) are perfectly safe for car washing and in some cases might actually be more mild than a typical car wash do to their decreased concentration for cost purposes. Believe it or not, hand dish liquids in some instances are more sophisticated than car wash formulations (We used to sell our surfactant waste to car wash institutions.) So, the ingredients in dish liquids are not going to dissolve away your paint, and in some cases won't strip the wax they are the same ingredients in car wash detergents. Hope this was a learning experience."



If you don't want to wash with Dawn, don't do it. That simple. I will continue to do so if I decide to start a new wax regime on a car and want a virgin surface.



Don't degrade people who choose to do so and please don't flame manufacturers who suggest the procedure. I would suggest they have more facts in their hands than we do.



Let's move on, please?:nixweiss Keep the forum constructive.

 

[svanderbilt]

Brad, you say that manufacturers "have more facts in their hands than we do".



I would surmise that the makers of Dawn have the most facts, wouldn't you? And why would they dissuade us from using their product on our cars? Manufacturers want us to pour it down the toilet; anything to use and buy more. But the Dawn website, in their Q&A section say (and it's been quoted before but I'll quote it again):



"Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your car."



Brad, I humbly and respectfully submit that if you followed your own logic, you wouldn't use Dawn, because the makers of Dawn would have the most knowledge of the limitations and applications of their own product, and "have more facts in their hands than we do."

 

[imported_memnuts]

Dawn usage on a vehicle. To REMOVE Oily substances. No one mention to "clean" your vehicle with it.



Guess what the public response would be if Dawn recommended using its product for a degreaser (de-waxer). Answer: If it good for grease it must be good for all types of dirt. "Hey Sweetie, pass me your Dawn, I need to wash the car"!!!

P&G understanding this mentality rather error on the side of no usage recommendation.

Heck, we, car detailing freaks, can not even fully comprehend the one-time usage statement in the Zaino instructions. :nixweiss

 

[dternst]

Brad, you say that manufacturers "have more facts in their hands than we do".



I would surmise that the makers of Dawn have the most facts, wouldn't you? And why would they dissuade us from using their product on our cars? Manufacturers want us to pour it down the toilet; anything to use and buy more. But the Dawn website, in their Q&A section say (and it's been quoted before but I'll quote it again):



"Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your car."



Brad, I humbly and respectfully submit that if you followed your own logic, you wouldn't use Dawn, because the makers of Dawn would have the most knowledge of the limitations and applications of their own product, and "have more facts in their hands than we do."

Follow this logic:



Procter & Gamble recently introduced, at the 2003 SEMA, what it calls an easier and better way to care for a vehicle's finish with the Mr. Clean AutoDry Carwash system, a new technology designed specifically for automobiles that guarantees spot-free results with no hand drying.



The Mr. Clean AutoDry Carwash system combines proprietary polymer soap, a pure-rinse water filter that removes impurities from the final rinse and a hand-held sprayer that delivers the soap and filtered water without the need for a filthy bucket.



Mr. Clean AutoDry Carwash System retails for $19.99-$29.95

Mr. Clean AutoDry Refill Soap reatails for $8.99

Mr. Clean AutoDry Refil Filter reatils for $9.99



Dawn Dish Soap retails for $1.50-$2.00



P & G hoped that consumers would purchase this new system for $30.00 over a product that sales for $2.00. To aid in the campaign for consumers to flock to the AutoDry System, they added the statement to there website:



"Your car surface and the dirt that gets on it are a lot different from the food soils and dishes that dishwashing liquids clean effectively. We don't recommend them for cleaning your car."



Think about it...



David

 

[jaybs02]

I don't see what the difference is .... if someone wants to use it let them use it.

I heard people talk about the cost....

Dawn costs approx $.12 per oz

Meg's NXT costs approx $.13 per oz



For the extra $.02 per car wash I'll be a sport and treat my car to a "car" wash.



Just my $.02 (no pun intended)