Do you clay or do you use a decontamination product?

Accumulator said:
Dan- I`m kinda extreme about my claying...most people can`t imagine (not like I cover inches at a time, tiny little areas with kneading/replacing after every contact..). I`m disappointed if I have to reLSP after claying, let alone if I found any marring from it. But again, eh..just me and contamination isn`t much of a concern any more.

With the towels, it`s my understanding that they are inherently abrasive to the extent that using them on, say...flat/satin/matte surfaces will abrade such surfaces enough to cause glossing. And they seem, just by their nature, to be geared towards doing areas that are at least a few square inches in size.

(Q: people don`t move clay/mitt/etc. a few inches under continual pressure do they? I mean..if some speck of contamination *does* get caught up and cause marring, that`d cause a scratch that`d be long enough to really show.)

Not trying to dissuade anybody from using the towels/mitts *IF* they already know that the approach works for them..different strokes and all that. If I were doing a full correction-type detail on something really contaminated, and didn`t have ABC/etc., then I might use one if I had it.
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Perhaps, but then again, I can`t see them being any more/less abrasive than clay itself. I never bought into the clay being sticky as what actually picked stuff off the surface.

I guess you`ve had better luck with ABC, but any car I ABC, at least one driven for a few months, always fails the baggie test.
 
Dan said:
Perhaps, but then again, I can`t see them being any more/less abrasive than clay itself. I never bought into the clay being sticky as what actually picked stuff off the surface...
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I too subscribe to the "shearing" idea.

The idea regarding the clay being abrasive (and some sure are, they`ll mar paint no matter what you do) is that ideally the clay doesn`t actually touch the paint, but rather glides along on top of a film of lube. Ideally.

I guess you`ve had better luck with ABC, but any car I ABC, at least one driven for a few months, always fails the baggie test.
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Eh, most of the times I`ve used ABC were on 1) new vehicles, 2) on such heavily contaminated vehicles that I clayed while the stuff was dwelling, or 3) on something where I was more after a "super wash" approach than a genuine decontamination.

I`ve had FK1119 do some pretty amazing decontamination (without needing to clay while it was dwelling), but that`s some really nasty stuff and AFAIK they don`t even sell it any more.

Eh, I suspect my decontamination work is kinda outside the norm..just wanted to draw attention to the Marring issue, if only for consideration. I`m just SO all about preserving clearcoat these days!

Kinda funny how I just don`t have to deal with decontamination much these days, but I`m sure not complaining :D
 
I`ve never used a product like IronX, but since all of our vehicles are dark in color it isn`t a priority for me. If I was working on a light silver or white, I`d be much more inclined to use some sort of iron desolving product.

I do make a point to clay and I use the traditional clay bar and not a mit or other clay bar substitute. I owned and used a Nanoskin fine grade sponge for a while, but the marring it left behind was far worse than a clay bar created. After a few sessions I tossed it and went back to using clay bars and never looked back.
 
RaskyR1 said:
I`m pretty sure Nanoskin owns the rights to the material and the other brands are basically licensing the use of it.
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That is mostly correct, however there are now a flood of unlicensed versions selling on ebay and elsewhere. A real Nanoskin is $11, not really worth chancing it with something else IMO.
 
I feel that you can`t expect either clay bar or chemical decon to completely decon the paint. You can`t expect the chemical decon to completely dissolve the sintered iron. However it will reduce the size of the iron particle so its a bit loose in the `hole` caused by it embedding into the clear coat. Then you hope that the clay will pull the loose particle out instead of shearing it off. That is how I was taught to think about what is happening when the chemical decon was acid based. I`ve always assumed that the process would be the same with the newer fallout removers.

And clay mitts/towels just do not clean to the same degree as a traditional clay bar is capable of. If the car is dirty it will get clay bar. If it is a newer or clean car then I will use a towel or mitt.
 
So my question is - what did we ever do before Decon Products came into the market ????
How did all those hundreds of thousands of vehicles fare after JUST being cleaned with a Claybar ???

Oh, yeah, they turned out beautiful and never had issues with embedded iron particles still (?) embedded.. :)

The Detailing Market will always come up with some new products that one Has to Have or you will die or something.. :)

Same with Grit Guards -- how many hundreds of thousands of vehicles were so scratched, they caused millions of extra hours spent correcting all those scratches out???

Oh yeah, I cant remember any of those scratched by my dirty mitt vehicles because I never allowed that happen in the first place... :)


I have only used the SM Arnold rubberized towel in Fine Grade, on over 1 hundred vehicles and counting, and never had it act up as long as you keep the surface
wet, and for that need, I have found DODOJuice Born Slippy Clay Lube to be the absolutely Best lubricant ever...

The SM Arnold rubberized towel in Fine Grade requires more downforce and back and forth motions to clean as well as a good Claybar in my experiences, but the trade offs are it is easily rinsed off and probably self rinses anway, because I use it with one hand and the other has the spray bottle of Born Slippy lube in the other and I keep it all wet all the time..

There are times I still use a claybar and am still always amazed at all the dark gunk that comes out of dirty paint..

For my needs to keep from kneading the claybar to death, I use the old Blackfire Clay Bar Cleaner spray to clean the claybar surface and rinse in a bucket of clean water.. Yes, it is an extra step but I have made this work great for my needs...

Good luck with your research !
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
So my question is - what did we ever do before Decon Products came into the market ????
How did all those hundreds of thousands of vehicles fare after JUST being cleaned with a Claybar ???
F
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Ye Olden members correct me if I`m wrong, but decon products existed long before clay ever did.
 
Dan said:
Ye Olden members correct me if I`m wrong, but decon products existed long before clay ever did.
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Never ran across that...should`ve asked Ketch, bet he would`ve known.

Stokdgs said:
So my question is - what did we ever do before Decon Products came into the market ????
How did all those hundreds of thousands of vehicles fare after JUST being cleaned with a Claybar ???

Oh, yeah, they turned out beautiful and never had issues with embedded iron particles still (?) embedded..
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Actually, although I often skip the claying, and often post about how vehicles looked kinda OK back in the day...the truth is that most *DID NOT*. Specific to this thread, the Rust-Bloom issue was a real problem on light colored vehicles, and even with the potent chemical cleaners then in use they were just something you crossed your fingers about. Maybe they would come back, maybe they wouldn`t, you just didn`t have the certainty.
Same with Grit Guards..
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I can`t make up my mind about those...I haven`t used/needed them, but then my wash/rinse buckets don`t get much dirt in them. I kinda lean towards "anything that might minimize marring is probably worthwhile".

how many hundreds of thousands of vehicles were so scratched, they caused millions of extra hours spent correcting all those scratches out???
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While Grit Guards won`t stop all of that...I *DO* wonder why there are still so many corrections going on here all the time. Why are vehicles still getting all that marred up? (Not talking about a Pro`s first-time customers..)
 
Accumulator said:
Never ran across that...should`ve asked Ketch, bet he would`ve known.
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Clay came to the US around 92-94ish I think. The FK decon stuff was around before that wasn`t it? Like way before I thought, at least the way he talked about it made it seem that predated the Valugard stuff.
 
Dan said:
Clay came to the US around 92-94ish I think. The FK decon stuff was around before that wasn`t it? Like way before I thought, at least the way he talked about it made it seem that predated the Valugard stuff.
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That`s what I somehow think too...but I don`t know for certain. And yeah, clay dates to `90 IIRC.
 
Striker said:
So does the paint require correction after each use of the clay towels ?


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Depends who you ask. IMO it is the same as clay in that respect. Some say claying is fine, others say you must polish afterwards. I say it depends.
 
Dan said:
Depends who you ask. IMO it is the same as clay in that respect. Some say claying is fine, others say you must polish afterwards. I say it depends.
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A lot of it is undoubtedly just that !YMMV! thing.

And IMO any time you`re dislodging something (potentially) abrasive from the paint, that something is a potential scratch right up until it`s off the vehicle. And that`s assuming the decontamination medium (clay, nanoskin) isn`t in-and-of itself abrasive.

"My [clay/whatever] doesn`t mar paint for me!" sounds like Famous Last Words IMO! Yeah, I basically take that position about my claying, but would I *bet my LIFE* that I could clay a Jet Black or matte-finish vehicle without doing *any* damage? No way.
 
I agree that it depends. Any type of claying on my black Nissan Frontier will mar the paint.

So it depends on how soft the paint is and also how contaminated the paint is. If you are picking up a lot stuff with the clay then there is a good chance it will mar the paint. Traditional clay allows the debris to embed into the clay instead of sitting on top the surface but don`t think the same can be said of the towels and mitts. That is why I will use a clay bar on dirty cars instead of the mitts/towels.
 
So I guess the consensus is- there isn’t one.

The question that still exists is- what one is more efficient? I find flaying a huge pain. Squeezing it. Turning it over. Hoping you don’t drop it.

Are the towels as efficient despite of personal preference ?


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Striker said:
So I guess the consensus is- there isn’t one.

The question that still exists is- what one is more efficient?
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I suppose there won`t be a consensus on *that* either!

I find [claying] a huge pain...
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Same here, but then I make it hard on myself.

Are the towels as efficient despite of personal preference ?
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Efficient or effective...or both? They sure sound efficient to me, less time/effort (if you`re correcting anyhow).

I suspect the efficacy is related to what/how much contamination you`re cleaning off, e.g., while you need chemicals to get into the pores/micro-fissures of the paint, a lot of stuff is just on the surface and I`d expect the towels to be fine for that. If they didn`t work as well as clay I bet we would`ve heard about it by now.
 
Striker said:
So I guess the consensus is- there isn’t one.

The question that still exists is- what one is more efficient? I find flaying a huge pain. Squeezing it. Turning it over. Hoping you don’t drop it.

Are the towels as efficient despite of personal preference ?


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Don`t know if I`m too late to join the party, but here goes...
I use the Cobra mitt, got the Mc37 kit 49$, great tool, stays on your hand, rinses easily, light grade, works amazingly !
Nano-skin mini towel 20$, gets into very tight places, med grade (so don`t put pressure), rinses & squeezes out nice, works!
Nano-skin sponge 10$, flips out of my hands so I might cut the sponge part off. Light & med. grade.

Just some suggestions that I`ll be trying
Blackfire has a mitt out now, 25$ can`t go wrong. Mitts are nice, just dip into a soapy bucket or hose it on the hand.
Optimum has a towel at 25$, light grade.

IMO.. hate the clay. Just pisses me off, after a battle with the last stuff I whipped off the balcony :blink:
 
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