Do Stiffer Pads Correct Better?

E

EXPDetailing

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I saw a video where Renny Doyle stated something to the fact that the Rupes could leave the surface better polished than a Flex if one really knew how to use the Rupes.

Here`s a quote from Michael Stoops: "The softer and more compressible the backing plate, the less ability it has to transfer energy to the paint, and some overall cutting ability will be lost."

So, it seems that stiffer equals better cutting ability, and Rupes is known for having stiff pads.

Has anyone determined to themselves that the Rupes machines just leave a better polished surface than a Flex?

I have a Rupes 15 just sitting unused because I have no pads for it, and because I love using my Flex because it doesn`t stall. Although, I do own a bunch of Rupes 21 pads even though I don`t own the 21 anymore.
PM me if anyone wants to trade. The question above is really the subject of my post. This wasn`t some lame attempt to bring attention to my unused Rupes stuff.
 
I`ll have to dig up the link but someone was recommending a specific brand pads that are not sold here on the thread I created for rupes pad question or something and they had a really fantastic explanation of softer pad vs. Hard Pad relative to friction on the paint and correction.

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I will pm it to you I noticed they remove the link from the person`s reply in the thread I was referencing so I don`t want to offend anyone or break rules

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IME stiffer pads generally are more aggressive.

IME the Flex 3401 (is that the Flex in question?) just doesn`t quite leave as nice a finish as RO/DA machines *without* forced rotation. I *never* finish out with the Flex 3401 as the results are just better with the others even when using the exact same pads/products.
 
Accumulator said:
IME stiffer pads generally are more aggressive.

IME the Flex 3401 (is that the Flex in question?) just doesn`t quite leave as nice a finish as RO/DA machines *without* forced rotation. I *never* finish out with the Flex 3401 as the results are just better with the others even when using the exact same pads/products.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am referring to the Flex 3401.
 
I totally agree with the quote from Michael Stoops..
I have always felt that anytime there is "flex", "flexibility", in the pad OR the Backing Plate, well, you lose some torque power to the flexing..

So if you are wanting to correct really well with as much efficiency as possible, then you pick the "harder to flex" tools, pads, etc., and use them..

But, again, back to the Infamous Lake Country Hydro-Shreds - these are pretty stiff pads but the foam is of a type that will correct really well AND still finish down incredibly clear and glossy - while keeping your product on the business end of the pad the whole time - and not absorbing it all up like some pads do..

So, here is a pad line that give you the best of both worlds - stiff enough for greater efficiency - less absorption of product and the ability to finish down to LSP ready..

I just completed my entire Black Grand Cherokee with about 7 - Tangerine 5.5" Hydro Shreds using only Optimum Finish polish and the Makita, to finally remove the old Optimum Opti-Guard and they absolutely clarified and removed a lot of surface defects from 4+ years of not touching the finish with any machine, and the gloss is incredible too..

It turned out so good, I decided to use a new 20cc syringe of Optimum 2.0 from 2013 over the entire Jeep and now I am good again for a few more years of no maintenance!!! :)

If I can figure out how to post pics I will do it and you can see what even the lightest correcting Hydro-Shred Hard Pad can do...

Regarding the Flex 3401VRG - I bought one I think 8 years ago when they first came out..

Have messed with it on and off and found that it can do a great job at whatever it is tasked to do - including that final, very light finish polish on that really hard to see gray color and you don`t want to add any extra defects in it..

I found that I had to lower the speed from "all out" to about half and with much precision just move the machine across the surface - just hard enough - just slow enough - and I always got extreme clarity and gloss..
Dan F
 
Isn`t it more a question of open cell vs closed cell pads rather than their "firmness"? Then throw in the polish type variable and you get more questions. Mike always says "find something that works for you and stick to it". I have always found this statement counterproductive and I prefer the "test spot" method. You have experience to guide you, but when faced with a new car/paint you really don`t know what to expect.
 
Stokdgs said:
I totally agree with the quote from Michael Stoops..
I have always felt that anytime there is "flex", "flexibility", in the pad OR the Backing Plate, well, you lose some torque power to the flexing..

So if you are wanting to correct really well with as much efficiency as possible, then you pick the "harder to flex" tools, pads, etc., and use them..

But, again, back to the Infamous Lake Country Hydro-Shreds - these are pretty stiff pads but the foam is of a type that will correct really well AND still finish down incredibly clear and glossy - while keeping your product on the business end of the pad the whole time - and not absorbing it all up like some pads do..

So, here is a pad line that give you the best of both worlds - stiff enough for greater efficiency - less absorption of product and the ability to finish down to LSP ready..

I just completed my entire Black Grand Cherokee with about 7 - Tangerine 5.5" Hydro Shreds using only Optimum Finish polish and the Makita, to finally remove the old Optimum Opti-Guard and they absolutely clarified and removed a lot of surface defects from 4+ years of not touching the finish with any machine, and the gloss is incredible too..

It turned out so good, I decided to use a new 20cc syringe of Optimum 2.0 from 2013 over the entire Jeep and now I am good again for a few more years of no maintenance!!! :)

If I can figure out how to post pics I will do it and you can see what even the lightest correcting Hydro-Shred Hard Pad can do...

Regarding the Flex 3401VRG - I bought one I think 8 years ago when they first came out..

Have messed with it on and off and found that it can do a great job at whatever it is tasked to do - including that final, very light finish polish on that really hard to see gray color and you don`t want to add any extra defects in it..

I found that I had to lower the speed from "all out" to about half and with much precision just move the machine across the surface - just hard enough - just slow enough - and I always got extreme clarity and gloss..
Dan F
Click to expand...

You can use something like photobucket or some other kind of photo sharing site. Or load them into your gallery and post them up that way.
 
Stokdgs- Heh heh, I already knew that your Rotary Skills *FAR* surpass mine, guess your Flex 3401 Skills might too :D

Eh, once the defects are all corrected, I just can`t get the same Final Finish with *anything* that I get via Cyclo. Close via GG6, but not quite the same. Not that anybody else ever sees the diff...
 
Mi Hermano Accumulador` -

We come from different sides of the tracks and that is a very good mix then, no ?

Not surprisingly, the Cyclo was also way ahead of its time, and I remember back in the 80`s, that Was the machine that all those detail shops that sold a System (called different names), used and they did beautiful, perfect, work on black paint...

It makes perfect sense to me that you would be the Expert on that bad boy... :)

I HAD to learn how to use all the Detailing tools to help support our family, and with very few Masters to work with, it was "you get this right or else"... :)

So left to my own "devices" :) spent a lot of extra time just experimenting on our own vehicles and their old acrylic lacquer and enamel paintwork until I got it right... I did NOT want to disappoint my Dad or my family..

Lucky for all of us, I really Loved the work, the daily challenges, the daily - think-of-a-way-to-make-this-work mantra..

My only unfulfilled wish is that I have never had a son to pass some of this on to...

Just a couple of beautiful daughters who ironically, having grown up with the nicest, cleanest, shiniest, cars, all their lives now well into their late 30`s, want that to keep happening... :)

I am sure that if your beautiful warehouse full of beautifully detailed vehicles ever gets to see the light of day, it will be so blinding to other drivers, that you will have to have extra Insurance coverage... :)

In the end, as you have said - it is indeed in the eye of the beholder -

Or we can go together on one of those fancy-schmancy-gloss-o-meters !!! Yeah, Gloss Wars !!!
Coming soon to a Detailer`s Shop near you....

I hope to one day be invited up to your place to discuss all things vehicular, and then perhaps talk about the absolute Miracles that happened over and over again to the man - George Washington, when he was leading the beleaguered, ill-equipped Revolutionary Army of regular guys to fight head-on with Thousands of trained British RedCoats and their favorite German-Hessian Army of absolute amazing killing machines..

Since all those amazing battles took place all over the Northeast, it would probably be a most interesting time to talk about it and learn first hand from someone who lives there, how it all happened..

Just the events that happened in and around Trenton, NJ alone - absolutely amazing - Yeah, I also love History... :)
Dan F
 
Stokdgs- Yeah, my rotary experience was pretty much limited to work on single-stage and even I could do OK on that stuff :D

And yeah#2 regarding the Cyclo getting sold in various packages back in the `80s. My older one still has the "Malm`s Wax" sticker on it from those days.

You would`ve *loved* talking with my late father, he was a real authority on Pre-revolutionary/Revolutionary War America. Knew a ton about all the various Forts, Braddock`s Road Through the Wilderness, etc. etc. Gotta admit I`m woefully ignorant about that period of our History :o
 
Accumulator said:
Stokdgs- Yeah, my rotary experience was pretty much limited to work on single-stage and even I could do OK on that stuff :D

And yeah#2 regarding the Cyclo getting sold in various packages back in the `80s. My older one still has the "Malm`s Wax" sticker on it from those days.

You would`ve *loved* talking with my late father, he was a real authority on Pre-revolutionary/Revolutionary War America. Knew a ton about all the various Forts, Braddock`s Road Through the Wilderness, etc. etc. Gotta admit I`m woefully ignorant about that period of our History :o
Click to expand...

Amigo !
I would have loved to talk about these things with your Dad !
As I study the lives of George Washington and Abraham Lincoln for starters more closely, I am just amazed at all the incredible miracles that were bestowed upon them and their righteous desires for this Nation...

And how they both really asked even implored that their troops (in the case of Washington) go to Church on Sunday, pray often, and strive to live clean lives and have a clean conscience.. It really made a difference when they were all united in this.. History proves this out...

Even after Washington was elected President, after all those Battles your Dad knew so much about, after all those bullet holes found in his clothes, etc., because he frequently rode in FRONT of his troops, encouraging them on in fierce battles, after many arrows were aimed at him that did not hit him in battles, he said this in part of his First Inaugural Address ---

"No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of Providential agency"..
-George Washington.
First Inaugural Address

And where did George Washington get this ?
From his Mother- Mary Ball Washington...
Among many things she said to him, this is significant -- as he left home the first time to do battle she said: "Remember that God is our sure trust. To him I command you...My son, neglect not the duty of secret prayer.

Now, think about that statue of Washington at Freedoms Foundation, Valley Forge, PA...
Dan F
 
Adams used to have a green pad that was paired with their Severe Swirl Remover.

Many fans of their products were confused because their stiffer orange pad was positioned with the lesser aggressive Swirl and Haze Remover.

What made the green pad more aggressive was the coarse open cell construction.

That pad is the green Buff and Shine. It`s also the same foam used for the green hex logic sold by CG.

I was never able to get as good of cut from the stiffer orange and yellow foams than I could with the green. It works with my style of polishing, as I don`t use the recommended 15lbs of pressure, but rather the weight of the machine, and the speed of the pad to remove paint. However, if I was going to use heavy pressure, I would get more from the orange pad, but the idea of slowing down the pad seems counter productive to me, if I want to do some serious cutting. I don`t experience a loss of energy transference because I`m not restricting the pads movement - kind of like Rupes` philosophy regarding use of their tools.

The Lake Country Cyan Hydrotech seems to be effective with lighter pressure, and they spin like crazy, but still don`t cut like the green ones do for me.

If you take an orange pad, and a green pad, submerge them, and feel the texture of the foam, that green pad will feel more coarse.
 
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