Discussion with other detailer..

M

metal

New member
Some of you may have seen the black 240sx that I've been working on. I posted it on a local forum, and a resident detailer has started talking about her work, but time and time again, I'm amazed and sometimes confused as to what shes talking about. Here are some quotes:



quote: Originally posted by Jewelz_firebird

ill be happy to do a spot but not the whole thing . good thing ur busting out the wool, foam isnt going to help this one out lol. I use wool on almost all my details. Its the only way to truely cut unless a cars in good shape. a lot of work & risk.



unfprtunatly ive done a crap load of paint like that and the other foam stages are likley to stain unless you eaither skip them (but then u get bad polishing swirls) or know how to work with foam and a dry dry paint. Good luck tho!! took me years to master it.



To which I replied:





Oh wow, what kind of cars are you doing to necessitate the wool on almost all of your details! :shocked



Can you elaborate on the part about foam staining paint? Not quite sure I get what you're talkin about.



__________________



To which she replied...

i dont need to explain what i do, the results show. Almost anyone here even with a mint paint job (like seans the nsx) has had some wool. I even did a Red model A hotrod yesterday and i used wool on it.



its all how you use it & i dont nessisarily use it on the entire car or even on the paint.



most detailers in town - accually almost all except alex at diamond, uses a foam cutting pad because its a lot of work and knowledge to remove the polishers swirls. But this is what seperates a good polish from a pristine. Plus i dont nessisarily use it on the whole car ,sometimes just on scratches. The detail will also last longer as well and you wont have scratches just covered up and come back again once all the protection is washed off.



Most people are scared to use wool (fear of burning & causing swirls in the paint etc) so they dont use it. But at the same time it brings depth & lustre out of the paint that foams just dont do.



and if your not getting stains from using glazes and such then you are eaither using heavy cuts and not following up with less agressive polish (which is swirl central) or the paint isnt as bad as the picture shows. When working with heavily scratched paints or oxidization, its a constant battle to prevent the polish from leaving 'oily stains'. Ive got a method worked out that prevents that but im not gunna spill all my beans.



Can't wait to see what else comes outta that thread..
 
:o Wow haha



I had a good laugh reading through it because of all the spelling mistakes they had. How can anyone take her seriously?
 
Yeah I know, I'm not even quite sure how to address this. I need to figure out some type of response while I'm in my next class.
 
Im actually on the same forum as metal and I've had a few "headbutts" with her and her BF in the past about washing techniques (Link if anyone is interested in reading it ) it gets kind of heated (although I always remained respectful)



Yes she has some experience working in a detailing shop (not going to even get into detail about the quality of some of those) but she comes accross as being very ignorent to the fact that someone might know as much or more about detailing than her.



I've always maintained an open mind to detailing, in both products, technique etc. Being closeminded will never allow you to become a better detailer, and ultimatly, create a better finish. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth my time trying to show her that there's more than just "her" way. She didn't want to hear any of it.
 
mcnab - you hit in on the head with being closeminded...nobody knows it all. Personally, I'm constantly learning new things and getting better, and yet I'm very confident in the fact that I'm good.



And I don't know what she's talking about - I never had a problem of leaving oily stains...she must be using too much product and is consequently having a hard time removing all the product...or she is dry buffing the polish off and is getting some buffer marks as a result. Or I bet she's using a cheap all-in-one type polish product, as I've heard these can sometimes leave a residue pattern on the paint...they kind of product you see at most hack shops. But I personally have never ever seen "oily stains" as a result of polishing...so it sounds like she has "worked out a solution" to a problem only she creates, cause I've never heard of anyone else on this board mention this problem either. And even though I use wool more than most on this board, it is in fact rarely needed - there isn't much a heavy compound and a firm polishing pad can't tackle via rotary.
 
i dont nessisarily use it on the entire car or even on the paint.
Click to expand...



w-w-w-w-w-what?!? so is she just waving the wool pad in the general direction of the car and chanting magic spells? hehehehe



i would just disengage from the conversation...you're not going to convince her of anything...get any useful info from her...you'll just waste your time. definitely sounds like she is there to "prove something" or pick fights.



i dont need to explain what i do, the results show.
Click to expand...



um, ok. then why join an online forum meant to DISCUSS TECHNIQUES and HELP EACH OTHER? obviously she just wants to hear what she has to say and that is all. :)
 
Interesting thread. I tend to use wool more often than most other Autopians too; I believe it has a definite place in detailing and only use it when I feel it's needed. I do think wool tends to get a bad rap here, that said I would not agree that most cars need wool. In fact, this summer I've used the wool pad maybe 10 times out of ~100 polishing jobs.
 
I think maybe she has a bit of a valid point about wool vs foam. A wool pad is 3 dimensional and a foam pad is flat. How does a flat pad remove etching below the surface of the paint without removing a serious amount of paint? Wouldn't a wool pad have a better chance of working on the edges of scratches and etches vs just cutting over the defects?
 
Good points brought up in this thread. I posted a response which I'll copy paste here:



Originally posted by Jewelz_firebird

i dont need to explain what i do, the results show. Almost anyone here even with a mint paint job (like seans the nsx) has had some wool. I even did a Red model A hotrod yesterday and i used wool on it.



its all how you use it & i dont nessisarily use it on the entire car or even on the paint.



most detailers in town - accually almost all except alex at diamond, uses a foam cutting pad because its a lot of work and knowledge to remove the polishers swirls. But this is what seperates a good polish from a pristine. Plus i dont nessisarily use it on the whole car ,sometimes just on scratches. The detail will also last longer as well and you wont have scratches just covered up and come back again once all the protection is washed off.



Most people are scared to use wool (fear of burning & causing swirls in the paint etc) so they dont use it. But at the same time it brings depth & lustre out of the paint that foams just dont do.



and if your not getting stains from using glazes and such then you are eaither using heavy cuts and not following up with less agressive polish (which is swirl central) or the paint isnt as bad as the picture shows. When working with heavily scratched paints or oxidization, its a constant battle to prevent the polish from leaving 'oily stains'. Ive got a method worked out that prevents that but im not gunna spill all my beans.
Click to expand...



I don't know about you, but other than in cases like this car, a foam cutting pad (or even light cutting pad) doubled with some heavy compound can cut through just about anything via rotary. In fact, you'd be surprised how much you can cut through with a good DA polisher and a light cutting pad. Porter Cable is the only kind I'd reccomend to anyone, because of the high osciliation rate, yet safety to the paint compared to using a rotary. This was the result of a light cutting pad on a PC7336 with SSR2.5 polish:

banneraq7.jpg




Another thing is that those polisher swirls, or holograms are usually caused due to dry buffing an area, or too great of a speed/tilting the buffer at an angle usually, and can occur very easily with foam pads as well. As for removal of them, well I don't see how they pose much of a challenge, considering everything else thats probably happened to the paint on a much deeper level. Usually you can avoid them all together with proper technique. I also don't understand how using an aggressive wool pad, "brings depth & lustre out of the paint that foams just dont do". Wouldn't this have the complete adverse result, being an aggressive heavy cut pad and leaving hazing instead?



One last thing, these "oily stains" you mention, due to a lighter polish, or glaze; I've never encountered such a thing, or have heard about this from anyone else. Could it just be too much product, and subsequently a pain to remove after?



Sorry if it sounds a little intrusive in a way, but I'm having trouble trying to figure out some of the stuff you were talking about.
 
People like her can be extremely frustrating to deal with. They think they know everything and they are ignorant. Nothing can convince them otherwise which makes it pointless to talk to them but their ignorance makes it hard not to respond.
 
metal - we could post pics of stuff like that all day. Unfortunately even if I agree with her about wool in general I can tell she is not going to back down. She is not open minded and will just see your post as an attack.
 
wannafbody said:
I think maybe she has a bit of a valid point about wool vs foam. A wool pad is 3 dimensional and a foam pad is flat. How does a flat pad remove etching below the surface of the paint without removing a serious amount of paint? Wouldn't a wool pad have a better chance of working on the edges of scratches and etches vs just cutting over the defects?
Click to expand...



Interesting theory, but I don't think it really pans out. Under rotation and pressure, most wool pads are essentially flat and caked with product; and for the theory to work, the wool strands would have to run in the exact direction as the scratch. Obviously wool is going to remove more of the scratch (or round off more of the scratch) but not because it "reaches" in the crack of the scratch; rather, it's because it is more aggressive. I think foam is just as flexible as wool as far as reaching into the cracks of scratches...so I woudn't read into this too much...interesting theory though.
 
most detailers in town - accually almost all except alex at diamond, uses a foam cutting pad because its a lot of work and knowledge to remove the polishers swirls. But this is what seperates a good polish from a pristine. Plus i dont nessisarily use it on the whole car ,sometimes just on scratches. The detail will also last longer as well and you wont have scratches just covered up and come back again once all the protection is washed off.
Click to expand...
Wow. Just . . . wow.

cattype.gif




Tort
 
Ok so I read that washing thread. She is such an idiot! lol.



I cant beleive some of the stupid things she said. Something along the lines of:



I would never bring my car to someone who hadnt worked in a shop. Volume=Experience. So I guess she is really good at cutting corners, and can do it really fast.



What a shame.



Greg
 
metal said:
... I posted a response ...
Click to expand...
Well the next response ought'a be interesting. :o I have to agree with Picus, she's going to interpret your post as a personal attack.



No matter how thoughtfully you present your point of view a closed mind that's determined to stay that way will. As you're keeping your cool and presenting your position in a logical manner the other members of the board shouldn't have any trouble choosing whose advice to follow.





PC.
 
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