Detailing new cars and the myth of needing to let the paint cure please advise...

emobob said:
If you do apply zaino before your paint has cured and the paint does fade prematurely, who are you going to blame (thats right not zaino, your going to blame the paint or the shop -- I mean something that is 99% optically pure can't possibly cause your paint to fade could it...nahhh).
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emobob,



You make some good points...some I agree with and some I don't. I'd rather PM my response than go back and forth with you on this issue publicly.



The only thing that I will say here is that it's not durability or longevity of the product that determines whether or not a product is body-shop safe. One can apply Meguiar's #7 over fresh paint not because it only lasts a few days but because it doesn't contain ingredients that migrate into the so-called microscopic pores of your paint....preventing the small amount of remaining solvents from escaping. Would applying it daily render it NOT body-shop safe? Of course not.
 
When I got my car back from the bodyshop last november I asked the guy who did the car what he thought about waxing it...



He said "Go right ahead and wax it if you want. Hell, its probably been waxed three times in the last couple days."



This coming from one of the best bodyshops in the suburban philly area.



I understand that whole, don't wax it crap, but I really believe it doesn't make all that much difference. I really almost think the bodyshops tell you that to keep you from inadverntantly swirling or scratching the paint (like most non-autopians) and coming back and complaning that they didn't do a good job,



Just my .02.
 
You should not wax newly painted panels for at least a couple weeks. I waxed my mom's whole minivan and I totally forgot that her back bumper was repainted. Every other panel came out great except for the back bumper. The wax would not buff off and now has a very sterile shine. Up close you can see the wax that hasn't been buffed off. And it won't come off with a QD. Anyone know what I should do. I'm going to try to polish or AIO it.
 
Most bodyshops use an oven to quick-cure paints now, so it's pretty much cured. However, some paints still release VOC's when out of the oven and sun starts to hit it. Most shops have polished and glazed it anyway prior to you picking it up. They have to or the finish looks flat. The oils used in glaze is enough for a moderate amount of protection for several days. After that wax should be applied.



If they glazed with 3M P-III FG, guess what, it's waxed as it (P-III FG) has carnuba in it for a customer pleasing shine.



As for new cars, same thing when they leave factory, paint is cured, mostly by electrostatic application and oven cured. By the time you take delivery, the "swirl mark and scratch application department" has already applied your swirls on for you. From now on, when I take delivery, I will request that the car is NOT washed or polished. I'll take it as is.



Regards,

Deanski
 
It's amazing that car dealers don't sack their detail crew on the spot. What i saw in Queensland , australia was terrible

Paint was extremely rough,swirl marks everywhere and windows streaked.

When i do new cars, i wash with water only and don't buff for the first few weeks and then machine buff with fare'cla,3m and then polish. 6 months later, a coat of omikron bodyguard which is a hard coating and omikron premium wax by hand.That then lasts 9 months before another coat is needed. But i acknowledge that i don't know everything and that's why i'm here.

So with brand new cars what is the correct thing to do.
 
I work for a car dealership and its very hectic in the detail department, if its even called that. They used some spray crap called snappy shine and basically use old ratty towels, who knows what kind they are, not even white. Now the cars come out ok, but obviously after a few washes and the polish is exposed you can see all the scratches. They use the same bucket of water w/ whatever the hell soap and **** they throw in it, and its completely black by mid day and they keep using it. They asked if i wanted my 2002 transam detailed when i brought it by and i said hell no. I'll use they're wonderful indoor wash bay with my own stuff but no way in hell they'res. Dealers really do suck. They just can't pay attention to detail when they have 5-10 deals going a day or so.
 
This question came up on our supra list and we have a memeber that is a professional painter here is his response:



Like I've said, the thing about waiting for fresh paint to cure before

waxing is so you can let the paint cure - simple. But the *actual* reason

David is looking for is this:

"Curing" is the action of paint "breathing", not just drying (they are one-in-the-same really). "Breathing" refers to the solvents literally evaporating from the paint. This evaporation needs to occur properly to avoid "solvent popping".

Solvent popping is NOT something you want to cause. Otherwise, you run a high risk of needing one of two things for a solution/fix: 1) a tedious/risky/professional buff job that will NOT help in *major* cases,

or

2) a RE-paint.

Usually (like 80-100% of the time), if the paint is gonna pop, it's gonna do it soon (next 1 to several hours) after it's been painted, and only

because of human (painter) error. Solvent popping is what happens when the solvents (the reducers and activators) can't escape safely through evaporation. If evaporation is affected in a negative way, the solvents literally get trapped in the paint (this can happen in primers and clears) and have nowhere to go except THROUGH the clearcoat, (or primer surface). When the

solvents get trapped and force themselves out (because they are coming out no matter what!!), they come through the clear leaving very tiny HOLES. These thousands/millions of remaining holes are the sites of solvents busting through to open air. They are extremely tiny, yet obvious up close because of their number.



Causes of solvent pop - (usually occurs during hot months):



1)The painter sprays the clear too thick and the exterior surface of the clear skins over faster than the paint can breath...trapping the solvents.

2)The car is not left in the spraybooth long enough (at least 1/2hr to 45min) for the booth to finish pulling (with it's air draft) the solvents out as they are evaporating.

3)The car is pulled out from the booth too early, and the draft in the shop may cause the paint to skin too fast and pop the paint (somewhat common with sensitive clear brands).



4)The paint is left to dry properly for a short time (couple hours or

more), but then rushed into the hot sun causing popping anyway.

5)The painter mixes the clearcoat in the summer with a reducer that is designed for the winter...because he needs the paint to dry faster. This is a gamble depending on the temp. range of the reducer. There are several reducers a painter can choose from. "Hot" reducer drys paint slower, "Cold" reducer drys paint faster....all to compensate for weather changes.



Basically, popping is caused by *anything* that skins over the paint too

soon....faster than evaporation.



After the paint is dry and the car is deliverable to the owner, popping is not nearly as sensitive to popping, but I suppose it is still possible especially if it's summer time. ***Some paints are more sensitive to popping than others***. There is no set rule stating that paint WILL pop if waxed...this is why painters who don't want to do a job twice, will simply say "just dont wax it for a month or so". Waxes are feared because they act

as a layer...a layer that might/maybe/could (but usually won't) trap solvents. It really all depends on the paint brand, how soon after the paint was sprayed and outside temps. Some paints are more abusable (like Dupont) than others and will stand up against thick spraying techniques and force drying methods....others will bite you in the *** and pop easy (like

SHERWIN WILLIAMS, aka MARTIN SENOUR) <------try avoiding ! I sprayed thats stuff for my first 4yrs and it's not exactly good stuff.

Since curing takes mainly 1-2 months (sooner during hot and/or less humid months), it's just easier to tell customers to avoid waxing for that long, rather than have to explain everything that I'm writting here :D

Zaino is really the only polish that would threaten me right after

painting since it seems to bond so well and for so much longer than other crap wax (plus zaino says it builds coats). I painted my car last month and I still haven't zainoed it (only sanded and compounded it so far). In the meantime, compounds for some reason don't skin like waxes etc. For popping, I

believe

it has to do with the brand of wax/polish as with the brand of paint.

>

> Hope that explains it all...
 
Interesting thread, I'm in a similiar situation. I really want to protect my car with Zaino because winter is coming fast and I don't want the road salt eating away my fresh paint. I don't want to detail the car and screw the paint up that way either. I'm thinking about just washing the car atleast once a week to keep the surface clean, but I don't know what brand of car wash is safe. Is Zaino car wash ok? I don't believe that has any silicone or anything like that in it.
 
Modern paints cure by catalyst action they are as hard as they are going to be in about 4 days. The myth of letting paint cure a lot of time was started with lacquer paint . Lacquer paint shrinks it is still shrinking after 5 months,weather you wax or not. After 6 months all you had to do was rebuff with machine glaze and everthing would be fine.We use to wax lacquer after a couple of days. In 6 months it would need to be buffed anyhow.
 
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