DEEP scratch and a bucket of paint inside can it be fixed?

Somewhat off the topic, but what is your take on vehicles with branded titles? I’m looking at Jag F-Types and there is a company that specializes is taking cars with branded titles and refurbishing them. I’ve looked at pictures and I can’t see anything wrong cosmetically. I worry about the electronics on such cars. Hell, I worry about electronics on brand new cars.
 
Given what we go through with our incredibly pampered vehicles, IMO buying something with Mystery Aspects might oughta be left to guys who can sort out *anything and everything* that could possibly come up....and who will then ship them to overseas buyers.

LGHT said:
I only focus on low mile Europeans and for some odd reason you almost never see a Mercedes like this, but a LOT of BMW`s lol..
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I suspect there are, uhm...demographic factors in play that are related to the people who buy (and especially those who LEASE) such vehicles for reasons *other* than how they drive.
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
Somewhat off the topic, but what is your take on vehicles with branded titles? I’m looking at Jag F-Types and there is a company that specializes is taking cars with branded titles and refurbishing them. I’ve looked at pictures and I can’t see anything wrong cosmetically. I worry about the electronics on such cars. Hell, I worry about electronics on brand new cars.
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Most cars with a "branded / salvaged title" are perfectly fine. In fact I currently own and drive 2 of them and have sold several in the past. The key is knowing what was wrong with the car that caused it to be branded. Was it flooded, caught on fire, or was just vandalized by someone who put spray paint over it? Both the above cars I’m considering have branded titles. The first car was a 2010 650i that sells for between $16k and $18.5k on cargurus with 70k miles. That car sold at auction for $4750 and after tax and title you’re out the door for $6000, which is about 30% of its actual used value. I passed because I don’t want to pay to get a full paint job on it and have to replace the dash. Even though I know a lot of people in the business and live in cali where I can find parts locally for dirt cheap I just didn’t want to put that much time and effort into it because I don’t do any of the work so I have to pay someone else. If you do the work yourself it could be worth it.

The 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] car however is worth it if I don’t have pay my guy to put FULL paint job on it. It’s a 2015 528 with 50k miles and is worth around $20k. That car will probably sale for around $6-7k as is with a branded title. If I can put acetone on it and polish it out myself then just replace the front and rear windshields your talking about a few hundred bucks to fix. Even if I sold it for $10k I would still make $3-4k for doing little to nothing to it. Who wouldn’t want a car worth $20k for $10k because it used to have spray paint on it and has a branded title?

The reason insurance companies sale it at auction and declare it a total loss because the owner is entitled to get the car back in the same condition it was BEFORE it was damaged. So that means a new paint job for the entire car and new glass from BMW. Most body shops would charge $12-14k to make it look like new again. The formula is typically 40-50% of value. If the car cost more than that to fix off to the auction it goes and they just pay out the owner. If it`s leased it`s even less because most people just sign a new lease so the leasing dealer never looses money.

Some cars look almost perfect and just have a bent bumper. However if you look really close you may see some frame damage. Sometimes they run over a curb lol. Even if a car has a 2” frame bend it’s off to auction. You can actually fix those pretty easy, if you have a frame puller. Those are the quick and easy fixes you want to buy.

Check out this guys You Tube channel he’s a guy who buys cars at auction and fixes / sells them. https://www.youtube.com/user/Samcrac
 
Accumulator said:
Given what we go through with our incredibly pampered vehicles, IMO buying something with Mystery Aspects might oughta be left to guys who can sort out *anything and everything* that could possibly come up....and who will then ship them to overseas buyers.

I suspect there are, uhm...demographic factors in play that are related to the people who buy (and especially those who LEASE) such vehicles for reasons *other* than how they drive.
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You would be surprised to know states like California than 50% of all vehicles in the state have a branded title. Mainly because so many people now and days are on their phone while driving and the way they make cars the costs to fix is just too much money.

If you go to 1 auction house and filter just the salvaged title cars on sale right this second in California it`s over 5,000!! I think they sale around 50,000 salvaged cars a month in California alone.
 
LGHT, thanks for the knowledge. I always thought a branded title meant the car was severely damaged almost to the point of no return. There is a company called T.J. Chapman in Salt Lake City, UT that specializes in branded cars. They’ve got a 2017 Jag F-Type for $59k, only 2,884 miles on the clock. Very, very tempting. Still a lot of money, but a lot better than normal. Beautiful car and the price is right where I want to be. They will sell me an extended warranty as there is no warranty on this vehicle. Any red flags I need to look for? I wish there was an Autopian in the area to check out the car for me. I trust most of the folks on this forum to know what they are looking at.
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
LGHT, thanks for the knowledge. I always thought a branded title meant the car was severely damaged almost to the point of no return. There is a company called T.J. Chapman in Salt Lake City, UT that specializes in branded cars. They’ve got a 2017 Jag F-Type for $59k, only 2,884 miles on the clock. Very, very tempting. Still a lot of money, but a lot better than normal. Beautiful car and the price is right where I want to be. They will sell me an extended warranty as there is no warranty on this vehicle. Any red flags I need to look for? I wish there was an Autopian in the area to check out the car for me. I trust most of the folks on this forum to know what they are looking at.
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Amigo,
That is a great find ! Wonder why it`s so inexpensive..
Just keep in mind that all of these cars - BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, Jaguar, etc., require frequent check ups by the Dealer or a very good Independent dealer with those same very expensive computers...

For example, you cannot just go replace the Battery in the BMW you just bought without telling the Bimmer computer you did it, so it can reset how it read the old battery and now is reading the output, and charging rate, for a different battery..
Yeah, I know, zillions of people just ignore the warning lights, etc., and go on their merry way for awhile and all is great.. And the Bimmer that got a new battery without "registering" it with the computer is going to have less life, because the computer is going to be charging it too much all the time..

I don`t want to be one of those people..

When I worked out of that awesome Independent Bimmer/Porsche/Audi repair shop, I saw hundreds of cars come in where the owner ignored a lot of things, and then, it was for some people, the cost to fix the beautiful little Audi Avant, was now way, way, more, than the car was worth, and the people were still paying on it... :(

I guess what I`m trying to say is that there is going to be a cost to drive one of those above vehicles long term, if you want to do it right, and not have too many surprises..
Yes, you can probably get someone on here, etc., to go look at the car for you, but you still don`t know how those low miles went., and if there is not some damage to the engine, etc., because someone drove it really hard when it was not even broken in properly..

BMW USED to make all new Owners bring in their vehicles for a mandatory drain all the fluids appointment at 1,200 miles !
Then when they did the math, and saw they were paying this huge amount of money for this, they changed it to only M Cars get all the fluids drained at 1,200 miles..
Just keep the old adage in mind - "If it sounds too good to be true - it probably is".. :)

Sending you a PM..
Dan F
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
LGHT, thanks for the knowledge. I always thought a branded title meant the car was severely damaged almost to the point of no return. There is a company called T.J. Chapman in Salt Lake City, UT that specializes in branded cars. They’ve got a 2017 Jag F-Type for $59k, only 2,884 miles on the clock. Very, very tempting. Still a lot of money, but a lot better than normal. Beautiful car and the price is right where I want to be. They will sell me an extended warranty as there is no warranty on this vehicle. Any red flags I need to look for? I wish there was an Autopian in the area to check out the car for me. I trust most of the folks on this forum to know what they are looking at.
Click to expand...

Yeah the misconception is the car has to be sooo bad you can`t ever fix it, but in reality the insurance company is just saying it would costs too much to get it back to new using a dealer. We all know how dealer prices are so much more than a guy working in his garage.

As for the Jag it`s a big questions mark which is the problem and why some vehicles are not worth it. When I sale a branded titled car I give them buyer a "pre-inspection" report of the car and give them pics of the before and after and show them exactly why it was "totaled" out by the insurance company and what I had to do to fix it. That`s why most of the cars I buy only have very little damage and low miles making them an easy sale. Most people care about the engine since body parts and panels can be easily replaced.

If the seller is willing to tell you exactly why it was branded and give you pics of the before and after with documentation proof and what they did to bring it back then it may be fine. I think that car would fetch around $70k used so for $60k I would pass. Not because it`s not a good deal, but because with a little time and effort you can get it for much much less.

Here is a 2017 F-Type with 12k miles. https://www.copart.com/lot/35777408

Not sure how much it will fetch at auction, but I doubt it would go for more than $30k. Yeah it will need work and it seems like it has some wheel damage so you would need to fix that stuff, but if you got it for $30k as is you would have more than enough to pay a retail shop to get it back to speed.
 
That Jag actually doesn’t look that bad. It always difficult without a physical examination to really tell. I can see there is a good bit of money to be made, especially on high end cars—if you know what you are doing, which I do not. Lol. If you could get it for $30k and put $15k into repairs it should sell at $55k. Jags are low production cars so getting panels might not be easy. They have been making the F-Type since 2014 so there may be some junked panels out there. Shame, it’s a nice car. Thanks again for passing on the knowledge. I’m learning a lot.
 
Stokdgs said:
Amigo,
That is a great find ! Wonder why it`s so inexpensive..
Just keep in mind that all of these cars - BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, Jaguar, etc., require frequent check ups by the Dealer or a very good Independent dealer with those same very expensive computers...

For example, you cannot just go replace the Battery in the BMW you just bought without telling the Bimmer computer you did it, so it can reset how it read the old battery and now is reading the output, and charging rate, for a different battery..
Yeah, I know, zillions of people just ignore the warning lights, etc., and go on their merry way for awhile and all is great.. And the Bimmer that got a new battery without "registering" it with the computer is going to have less life, because the computer is going to be charging it too much all the time..

I don`t want to be one of those people..

When I worked out of that awesome Independent Bimmer/Porsche/Audi repair shop, I saw hundreds of cars come in where the owner ignored a lot of things, and then, it was for some people, the cost to fix the beautiful little Audi Avant, was now way, way, more, than the car was worth, and the people were still paying on it... :(

I guess what I`m trying to say is that there is going to be a cost to drive one of those above vehicles long term, if you want to do it right, and not have too many surprises..
Yes, you can probably get someone on here, etc., to go look at the car for you, but you still don`t know how those low miles went., and if there is not some damage to the engine, etc., because someone drove it really hard when it was not even broken in properly..

BMW USED to make all new Owners bring in their vehicles for a mandatory drain all the fluids appointment at 1,200 miles !
Then when they did the math, and saw they were paying this huge amount of money for this, they changed it to only M Cars get all the fluids drained at 1,200 miles..
Just keep the old adage in mind - "If it sounds too good to be true - it probably is".. :)

Sending you a PM..
Dan F
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I got your PM and reached out to the man to see if he is interested and able to help.

I just went through the battery registration fiasco on my BMW, what an asinine system. Luckily the batteries last about 7 years. Since this Jag would be without a warranty (scares me) I would call my semi-local Indie to see if he evens works on Jags. So far everything I have read on the Jags suggest great reliability (amazing for a Jag). I’m going to continue my research before I do anything. I think I will contact the dealer to discuss why the car had a branded title and go from there.
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
That Jag actually doesn’t look that bad. It always difficult without a physical examination to really tell. I can see there is a good bit of money to be made, especially on high end cars—if you know what you are doing, which I do not. Lol. If you could get it for $30k and put $15k into repairs it should sell at $55k. Jags are low production cars so getting panels might not be easy. They have been making the F-Type since 2014 so there may be some junked panels out there. Shame, it’s a nice car. Thanks again for passing on the knowledge. I’m learning a lot.
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You would think there is more money in expensive cars, but there isn`t. Most people who want to drive higher end cars either lease them or just buy them new so they can have the comfort and re-assurance of a dealer and a warranty. Plus not many people have say $30k in the bank to buy a car and a lot of lenders don`t want to get involved with cars that have a branded title as the re-sale value is always a huge question mark. Those cars are basically only purchased to drive by guys who want to keep them and own them which is why they are even cheaper than cars in the $5-$15k price range. The last 2 cars I bought where from TX and OR. Surprising I didn`t get to see either of them before I bought them, but I did hire an inspector to go out and put and OBD on it check codes, turn them on, and check for major frame damage. That car probably has about $5k in damage unless you`re taking it to a retail shop.
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
That Jag actually doesn’t look that bad. It always difficult without a physical examination to really tell. I can see there is a good bit of money to be made, especially on high end cars—if you know what you are doing, which I do not. Lol. If you could get it for $30k and put $15k into repairs it should sell at $55k. Jags are low production cars so getting panels might not be easy. They have been making the F-Type since 2014 so there may be some junked panels out there. Shame, it’s a nice car. Thanks again for passing on the knowledge. I’m learning a lot.
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Well the highest bid didn`t go more than $21k so the seller obviously declined and re-listed the car so there is still time to buy!
 
LGHT said:
Well the highest bid didn`t go more than $21k so the seller obviously declined and re-listed the car so there is still time to buy!
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These Jags are all Aluminum and from what I can gather Aluminum is a pain to work with. There are two Jags on Cargurus with branded titles for hail damage. I talked to the owner and told him he was asking way too much for the cars. I had to explain depreciation plus the branded title minus a warranty meant lower price. I think he bought them hoping for a quick flip and profit. The pictures were awful, he didn’t even both to wipe the dust off the cars before posting. Some people...

Why don’t you buy the car, fix it up and sell it to me? Seriously, how much do you think the seller wanted for the car? Looks like cosmetic damage, but you never know until you start trying to fix something and then all the small stuff bites you on the butt. Doesn’t look like frame damage. From my research the new Jags are pretty reliable cars. I guess the house of Lucas didn’t do the electronics.
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
These Jags are all Aluminum and from what I can gather Aluminum is a pain to work with. There are two Jags on Cargurus with branded titles for hail damage. I talked to the owner and told him he was asking way too much for the cars. I had to explain depreciation plus the branded title minus a warranty meant lower price. I think he bought them hoping for a quick flip and profit. The pictures were awful, he didn’t even both to wipe the dust off the cars before posting. Some people...

Why don’t you buy the car, fix it up and sell it to me? Seriously, how much do you think the seller wanted for the car? Looks like cosmetic damage, but you never know until you start trying to fix something and then all the small stuff bites you on the butt. Doesn’t look like frame damage. From my research the new Jags are pretty reliable cars. I guess the house of Lucas didn’t do the electronics.
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Yeah hail damage is an easy fix, so he probably just thought it would be an easy sale for a ton of money which is never the case with higher end cars because the buyer pool is very small.

As for that one listed at auction now I would say the seller wants at least $25k, but may try and hold out for more. I`ve seen cars get relisted for months before the seller eventually came to the conclusion that they are not going to get what they "think" it`s worth. I would say that car probably has a lot of issue underneath and more than likely some frame rail damage. If you look close the left wheel is turned and the right wheel is straight. So at a minimum they axel is bad and will need to be replaced not to mention all the little parts in the engine bay. If the frame rail is bent the body shop would have to take the entire front end off and either cut out the bent part or try and get it as straight as possible. The good part is it’s a rear wheel drive so it won’t affect the drivetrain. Not a quick and easy fix, but shouldn’t be more than $5k. If you bought used sourced parts it would probably be half of that and the out the door costs would be around $30k. As you mentioned you don’t get a warranty, but with an extra $30k in the bank you could easily drop an entire new engine in it if it ever failed and still have another $20k to buy the wife something nice!
 
Accumulator said:
I wouldn`t have thought so on an aluminum car, given my experiences with having stuff fixed on the Audis.."hail damaged roof" sounds problematic to me.
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You would think so, but I know a guy in TX who specializes in hail fixing and believe it or not on the roof he uses a fancy hot glue gun and a tool to pull the dents out. He can do a full car in a couple of days.

Sample video
 
LGHT- But on *aluminum*? The Chargers have steel roofs, don`t they? Last I heard, my Audi dealer simply Totals aluminum cars with hail damage because they just can`t be make perfect again.
 
Accumulator said:
LGHT- But on *aluminum*? The Chargers have steel roofs, don`t they? Last I heard, my Audi dealer simply Totals aluminum cars with hail damage because they just can`t be make perfect again.
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That was a sample video I found where it just happens to be a charger. There are over 4000 cars sold right this second nationwide because of hail damage. Keep in mind you will never get it "perfect", but they can sure get them dayumm close so if you want a $80k car for less than half that hail damage or any paint damage for that matter is a good quick and easy fix.
 
PDR Guys are magicians. I had some work done on my car and you can’t tell there was ever a problem. I would have to see an example on an aluminum panel before I bought a Jag with hail damage. Aluminum doesn’t have the “memory” that steel does. They might have to use heat to get it back into shape.

I didn’t know these guys were in Georgia. I used a company called Dentsmart that works the southeastern US. Excellent work.
 
There`s some pdr guys who can get good results with aluminum. Had a small dent in the aluminum roof on my Lexus sc430. Found the right guy who made it perfect. That was only working it from the outside, because you couldn`t get access from the inside where it was. Most pdr guys won`t do it though. It took me a couple of weeks of research to find the right guy. The one time I`ll say thank goodness we lived in Houston then. It cost more and I wouldn`t think about a hail damaged car. One or two dents yes.
 
LGHT said:
That was a sample video I found where it just happens to be a charger. There are over 4000 cars sold right this second nationwide because of hail damage. Keep in mind you will never get it "perfect", but they can sure get them dayumm close so if you want a $80k car for less than half that hail damage or any paint damage for that matter is a good quick and easy fix.
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My PDR guy in WA could Always get it Perfect.. Even on car tops working under the headliner..
I could never find the damage after he finished.. And believe me, I can spot and feel anything..
The only way he ever gets a break from work is to go away on vacation.. Far away.. :)
Dan F
 
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