Dawn detergent alternatives

Status
Not open for further replies.
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by seturner [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Puterbum is right, guys. The chemists and auto experts at Autoint do not know as much as us on this board. They should know that dawn rules. Brad has obviously been brainwashed and did not see the positive comparitive results he said he saw.

By the way, Dawn did squat for removing my old "wax" or whatever was on my car when I got it. [/b]</blockquote>
Seturner, speaking of chemists and auto experts, virtually ALL the OEM (chrysler, ford, gm, etc.) use clay and have approved it as the safest method for removing rail dust. (quoted from DK's post) Remember, only clay will pull embedded contaminants out of the paint. An product such as ABC will mainly just get the surface contaminants, just like JNRBRDMAN reported. It doesn't "completely prep the surface".
Another ABC Post
 
I understand IM, but this topic started as a "Dawn" alternative post. The original poster wanted a product that would prep his paint as would Dawn. Dawn has never been recommended for ferrous particle removal or any other task best undertaken with clay. But you must admit, the ABC system would certainly be superior to Dawn at foreign particle removal. Further, even though clay has been approved by manufacturers, remember who Autoint really works for/with; the automobile manufacturers and body repair shops. Autoint certainly will not make a product for use by manufacturers that is not "approved".
 
My main point is this:

People are skeptical of the available scientific data available for the ABC system, however, there is even less "scientific" data available about why Dawn works. There are theories and postulates, but none of that information is from the producers of Dawn, since it is intended to clean dishes, not automobiles. People get certain results and recommend it and most people on this board seem to follow. But, when somebody posts the same result based information about ABC, some people have a sudden insatiable desire for independent scientific data and ignore the end users reports.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by seturner [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>The chemists and auto experts at Autoint do not know as much as us on this board. They should know that dawn rules. Brad has obviously been brainwashed and did not see the positive comparitive results he said he saw.
[/b]</blockquote>
:rolleyes: :D
 
Seturner,



You make some good points and I see where you are coming from. However, I hope you are not referring to me in your post, because I haven't done any of the things you mention (at least not in this thread!).



Also, you are comparing ABC to Dawn all by itself. No one who advocates the use of Dawn would ever say that it preps your car better than ABC. Also, no one will ever say that it removes embedded particles either because it doesn't.



No, it's just soap which happens to be very alkaline (like most dish soaps) and does a good job of removing oils and sometimes paint sealants from your car. Follow that up with a good claying and a final wash (to remove clay residue and help stabilize the paint's PH) and you've pretty much done what ABC will do.



That being said, let me just say that I'm sure ABC works fine. Maybe it works better than the Dawn + Clay routine...or maybe it doesn't. I just use clay for three reasons (I don't even use Dawn anymore): 1) it puts my mind more at ease, 2) it's very easy procedure that requires very little energy, & 3) you can spot-clean your car periodically (without removing all your sealant layers) whenever your surface starts to feel less than glassy-smooth.



If you feel comfortable using the ABC wash, then more power to you, my friend! :cool:
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by seturner [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>But, when somebody posts the same result based information about ABC, some people have a sudden insatiable desire for independent scientific data and ignore the end users reports. [/b]</blockquote>
I spoken with a few of these people you refer to and my impression is that like me, they are a bit leery of pouring an acid strong enough to dissolve metallic particles on their car. Hence, they just wish to get a bit more reassurance that what they are doing isn't deleterious to their cars' finish.
 
No IM, I am not shooting at you. Furthermore, I have never personally used the ABC system. Also, I have nothing whatsever to do with Autoint. I am not saying I KNOW ABC is safe. I am just saying the available data indicates it is. Some people will never trust the source of that data, which can be understood. However, when other members of this board post that they have good personal experience with a product, this should serve to affirm the claims of the producer. Unless Brad works for Autoint, his opinion should be trusted. All or most of the skeptical posts are from people who have not used the product, and think it MIGHT be harmful.



Personally, I would like to try the ABC system, but I do not need 5,000 gallons of it or whatever size it is sold in!:)



I posted on here several months back that I could not remove the "sealant" or wax that was on my car when I purchased it. It is a 1995 Prelude VTEC that did have 48k miles. I tried many products including Dawn to remove the wax. No luck. I did apply Zaino over it with good results though.
 
Thanks for asking 'King.

I do not know what is on it, since the lady I bought it from had it "professionaly detailed" before I purchased it. The reason I think it is not stripping off is when I Dawn washed it, it felt just as slick and beaded water like before. When I rub 3M adhesive, wax, and tar remover product on the hood, it appears to smear around, sort of like trying to wash a greasy pan with cold water. When I use my cheap orbital buffer to apply 3M perfect it II and SMR, big hazy spots that required extreme effort to rub out would appear ( and still do ). It was almost like some dried polish was laminated to my car. Before and after I Z'd the car, it looked good, so I cannot determine if the Z is bonding or not



Thanks,

Scott
 
Seturner,



I am with you on the ABC stuff. Ron K makes some logical points and goes to great length to explain them. I went through what seemed to be escalating to argument levels on a thread I started in "Autopia University" titled:



"Valugard ABC surface prep--will it strip sealants as well as wax?" dated 3/17/02



I was saying how I thought Ron K was right on with his explanation of the ABC system. Some responded that Ron only represents an opinion and nothing more. Right, the guy makes his living at this and has the science to back it up. Science=fact, not opinion. The moderator closed the thread down because someone was getting upset......check it out, you will appreciate it.



I just think the man has the credentials to call the proper shot on this subject. He makes his living by knowing this stuff. No one else on this forum can match his experience and knowledge of the science of autopaint... Period. If they could, they would understand the logic of his presentations.



I am planning on doing a major detail job soon and want it done right. I am considering getting the ABC system. :cool:
 
Are you accepting Ron's arguments because nobody else has taken the time to beat them?



Pretty naive if you ask me but what do I know, I'm not a professional :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Lizard,



I take your comments as a personal insult, and so should many others. If you think Ron is the only one who has 25+ years of detailing and car paint experience... think again. And, as far as I know, Ron isn't a chemist. So, where's the science?



It all comes down to a little respect. What do you think this forum would be like if I allowed the likes of Sal Zaino or Terry Freiberg to post their point of view on proper paint preparation? It would be all-out chaos... a war zone.



Ron spent a lot of time helping forum members and sharing his wealth of experience. We all thank Ron for his valued input. However, for you to come to "Ron's cause," only insult forum members or stir up crap, leads me to wonder about your motives.



Cheerfully,

DavidB
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by seturner [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Unless Brad works for Autoint, his opinion should be trusted. [/b]</blockquote>
But the director of sales at Autoint should be? :)

Don't get me wrong... I respect RK's knowledge. I'm just using your reasoning.

Great post David!
 
David,



My motive is to simply find what works, what doesn't, and why.



I have read lots of posts and come away with the impression that many respond to things emotionally instead of scientifically. When someone who works for a major company that has product endorsed by other major companies speaks, I have a tendency to listen. When his explanation makes sense and those that use his product agree, I listen even more. To me, this is science or the company would not be in business.



If I have offended anyone, I am sorry. This is not my intent. I am simply trying to find out answers that are based on science, not opinions.



C'mon guys, geeeezzz, give a reptile a break!!!!!



The Lizard:D
 
Llizard,



Actually, it seems more like you've made up your mind and your motive is more to defend ABC to the point of death. No offense, but if you are convinced ABC will work, then just go ahead and use it instead of trying to make all of us agree with you. How many times are you going to give us the same line about how ABC is backed up with scientific analysis..etc..etc.



You say, "Science=fact, not opinion". :rolleyes:
 
Liz,



I really dig your enthusiasm for detailing and car care. The fact that you have used the search tool and researched subjects from the database says something about you. :up



This industry is part science and part technique. If you keep that in mind, you will come to realize that many products will provide great results.



I personally enjoy the fact that we have so many people using different products... and get good results. So, it rubs me the wrong way when anyone, no matter what their experience, says this is right or this is wrong.



Sorry if I came off a little strong... it just hit me the wrong way.



db
 
David,



Not a problem. I can understand how it might have hit you the wrong way and I am sorry for that. I appreciate you posting about it on the forum, so I will do the same to clear the air with any of the guys I might have alienated.



Sorry to any of you who felt slighted in any way. My heart is in the right place. Just trying to seperate the voodoo from the facts - if that is possible??!!



I appreciate the forum and all those who contribute to it. Peace.....



:xyxthumbs



Your friendly neighborhood Lizard:D
 
I am reading this thread in amazement. Why are you guys getting so worked up?



Most of you are constantly in search of the ultimate boutique sealent or the polish that will give you the ultimate shine. Two years ago it was 3M IHG followed by Blitz, then the Klasse topped with Souveran revolution and now Zaino is all that. Evolution is great, but why not evolve through your whole regime. Dishwashing liquid is what we used on our dads beaters when we were 16 and didn't know any better and he didn't care.



If you aren't using the product why are you so hell bent on defending Dawn when even your own breatheren have given it great reveiws. I have now done 22 vehicles with the ABC system and although I am no chemist this combination of chemicals preps a vehicles surface to perfection.



Each and every time an unfamiliar product from a professional line is brought to light through a question or thread it is shot down in flames by the frequent posters. The only reason any of the Valueguard products gained any acceptance was the amount of time Ron K. spent educating and defending the products to the various detailing gods.



Before you guys turn the blow torch on I know all about clay and it's ability to aid in surface prep. I'm also aware that it has some short comings as far as completely removing ferrous particles as well as being somewhat abrasive. So when the flames come lets not debate the uses of clay, it's great but IMO ABC is much better

:cool:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top