Dammit, I want the truth!

[RaskyR1]

micjmac- Keep doing what works for you!



I myself just don't like Lexol all that much..the smell, the feel, it's just not a fave of mine. That said, I am still using it (using it up, really..I have a ton of it) on some of the dog leads/etc.



I *still* haven't gotten around to trying my Leatherique...just such a hassle to go through. And anyhow, between LeatherMasters and Sonus I'm quite happy. Might try the Leatherique when I finally get the Jag back on the road though, oughta be just the thing for its old leather.

I actually found Leatherique to have a similar smell to Lexol...though my seats did get squeaky after using Leatherique like they did with Lexol.





I must say after trying the Leatherique though my coated leather seats definitely had a softer feel...but that's not to say they were actually softer.



Honestly, I'm very frustrated by all the conflicting leather information being put out by the leather experts themselves and really wish a definitive answer could be given. Judy's information given seems to hold the most weight with me but I still don't see how so many leather experts can have such conflicting info.



Rasky

 

[Accumulator]

I actually found Leatherique to have a similar smell to Lexol...

Hm....my Jag had better still smell like it always has or I'll be uhm...displeased.

Honestly, I'm very frustrated by all the conflicting leather information being put out by the leather experts themselves and really wish a definitive answer could be given...I still don't see how so many leather experts can have such conflicting info.

You're not alone. And I especially wonder about "experts" whose statements are directly contrary to my (often long-term) first-hand experiences :think: Gee, guess which I choose to believe

 

[todd@bsaw]

Honestly, I'm very frustrated by all the conflicting leather information being put out by the leather experts themselves and really wish a definitive answer could be given. Judy's information given seems to hold the most weight with me but I still don't see how so many leather experts can have such conflicting info.



Rasky

This is the way I feel as well, especially given the fact that anyone can easily label themselves as an "expert". I was wondering what's up with all these leather care questions popping up lately, but then realized I remembered this thread when it was first posted over a year ago.



People can say "do what works for you," but if what I have come to believe from Judy is true, then most leather cleaners and conditioners on the market for the car care industry are nothing but marketing and snake oil. I would rather not waste my time and money on a full process and product if I can achieve good or better results with my current modified process: clean with light APC+ and my steamer. Done.

 

[Quality Leather]

You guys are correct that anyone can label themselves an expert. Here is the expert that I received my info from years ago told me. Mix 1-3% Joy dishwashing liquid, 10% alcohol and the rest water. This expert was the head chemist for Eagle Ottawa. Interestingly, their website says to use just a wet rag and mild soap. I would say Woolite or most mild cleaners should do very little damage to the coatings. One thing you need to watch for is leaving any product on the leather for to long. Since these are water based coatings, even water left on the leather for an extended period of time can start to damage the coating.

Eagle Ottawa Leather Company :Leather Care

 

[nosbusa1700]

You guys are correct that anyone can label themselves an expert. Here is the expert that I received my info from years ago told me. Mix 1-3% Joy dishwashing liquid, 10% alcohol and the rest water. This expert was the head chemist for Eagle Ottawa.

Have you tried this recipe? If so, did it do as well as other products you've used?



I noticed on the site you linked it says never use alcohol, but the head chemist for Eagle Ottawa said use it.



Or should you only use alcohol as was directed?



Thanks

 

[todd@bsaw]

Thank you, Quality Leather.



I think I'm going to stick with my process as it has been producing wonderful results.



I am going to assume the variance in what the Eagle Ottawa chemist said and what they recommend on their site is to account for any possible improper use.

 

[Roger Koh]

You treat the coating on "most" modern leathers. These coatings need to number one be cleaned and number two have a product that will guard against drying and UV. I

===





What has UV got to do with these coatings?



Guard against drying of WHAT in these coatings?





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®

 

[swan]

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!



Sorry, just had to after seeing the thread title.

 

[Roger Koh]

OK, here's the deal. Once and for all, please, please, someone give me a definitive answer on the following:



I have read on more than one forum that buying expensive leather treatment products is a grand waste of cash for most leathers except for very high end cars. Is this, or is this not a true statement?



I only want answers from experts so that I can put this out of my mind once and for all.



I apologize for my tone but it seems like this topic just goes on and on and on with no clear answer.

===





It is a wild statement!



Need to be fine tuned!



What are the most common leathers types?

I believe these are non-absorbent types until the FINISH gives way and the leather STRUCTURE is exposed that treatment is necessary.



The next common types are those that come with perforated panels.

These panels leather STRUCTURE need to be rejuvenated to keep them perpetually supple replenishing the original fatliquors diminishes thru heat and cleaning.



So treatments here I think is referring to conditioning them?





FINISH Treatment Basic:



A] Non-film forming

B] Non-Stick – the ability to shield the detrimental effects of sticky soiling including the nasty ballpoint ink.

C] Helps prolong the finish of the leather - increase leather resistance to wet and dry rubs – thus reduce stretch, scuff and abrasion.

D] Reduce noise - Reduce friction squeaks against body contacts or during movement especially getting in and out of passenger seats.

C] Enhancing the leather sensuality to charm - Leather scent and tactile feel.





STRUCTURE Treatment Basic:



A] The ability to penetrate the thickness (average 1 – 2 mm) of the leather STRUCTURE.

B] The ability to hydrate and relaxed the stick together protein fibrils even cardboard stiff to softness.

C] The ability to lubricate the leather fibrils so that after drying they will be capable of sliding over one another smoothly.

D] The ability to enhances the leather rip resistance tensile strength greatly with stretchability, compressibility and flexibility,

E] The ability to relaxes coarse breaks, creases and wrinkles to provide drapes, suppleness and prevents cracking.

F] The ability to keep leather at its optimum physical performance and prevent premature ageing.





If you know what you need then all the money spend would be worth it!





The next question is how do you CLEAN them before you TREAT them?





Roger Koh

Leather Doctor®

 

[judyb]

Honestly, I'm very frustrated by all the conflicting leather information being put out by the leather experts themselves and really wish a definitive answer could be given. Judy's information given seems to hold the most weight with me but I still don't see how so many leather experts can have such conflicting info

but if what I have come to believe from Judy is true, then most leather cleaners and conditioners on the market for the car care industry are nothing but marketing and snake oil.

Unfortuanately most of the information is sales hype and marketing and not given by experts but by people who set themselves up as such without doing much proper research and training. Anyone can put a product on the market and then talk in baffling scientific ways as another marketing ploy which is why I have alwasy tried to explain the facts in plain english as we do on our training courses.



I remember being on the American Leather Chemists Association forum the first time I came across Roger and this is how he described himself

'I am no Chemist; this is another salesman leather care trick that works'

so you do have to take everything we read and think it through with a bit of logic before making decisions about these things.



Leather care is simple -



Dirt does the damage to leather so keep the leather clean and it will last longer - (we have an example of a 100 year old piece of leather that has never been allowed to get dirty, it has lived in the bellows of an organ where it has been flexed every day of its life, the movement in the air has been enough to keep it hydrated to its correct level and because it has never been handled or allowed to come into contact with dirt it is in perfect condition.)



Use water based cleaners to clean the leather - this way the moisture will help to rehydrate the leather



Avoid anything that contains oils/waxes etc as these will only attract more dirt



You only ever clean the surface of the leather you cannot 'clean' out of leather.

Using a protector on the surface will help to make the leather easier to clean and protect it from the likes of dye transfer etc (this is not dirt but will be difficult to clean out if left to soak into the finish) and UV. 'Conditioners' that claim to contain protection very rarely have enough to be of any benefit - far better to spend your money on a correctly formulated protector that does what it is supposed to do (these are straight forward to test)



Fatliquors that are in the leather from the tanning process do not migrate from the leather during normal wear and tear (checked with tanners and leather scientists from all over the world on this one) so do not need replacing 21st century leather is made this way (this may have been different in past decades) and 21st century leather care products have moved on from replacing oils/waxes/fatliquors etc as this is now unneccesary and impossible.



Unfortunately marketing continues and will continue to suck in the unwary into putting unnecessary and sometimes potentially damaging products onto your leather which can be costly.



Hope this helps

 

[Quality Leather]

Have you tried this recipe? If so, did it do as well as other products you've used?

Yes, I have used it for years. I used another ingredient than Joy, but I went to Joy about a year ago and I prefer it now. Plus, it is readily available.

I noticed on the site you linked it says never use alcohol, but the head chemist for Eagle Ottawa said use it.



Or should you only use alcohol as was directed?



Thank

Thank you, Quality Leather.



I think I'm going to stick with my process as it has been producing wonderful results.



I am going to assume the variance in what the Eagle Ottawa chemist said and what they recommend on their site is to account for any possible improper use.

Yes, that is it. When they say something like that, they don't won't anyone damaging their leather by doing something wrong or being to aggressive. It is the same approach that LeatherMaster takes.