DACP & Burgundy Cutting Pad

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pwr4all3

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Should a Meguiars Burgundy cutting pad not be used on a DA to apply DACP? Someone had mentioned this pad was only to be used on an orbital polisher. The bigger question here is it a matter of the wrong pad being used with DACP or the wrong machine, product and pad?



Thanks,

Randy
 
Just about any combo can be used to achieve your desired results. Having said that, the maroon pad generally isn't used with DACP and an orbital.



The maroon pad is made to cut and should be used with a more agressive product than DACP.
 
Mike did a nice demo of the burgundy pad on a PC at the Autopia Detail Day. It definitely dulled the finish on the area he applied it. However, it did do more work than the yellow pad. Then Mike tossed the red pad on the rotary, and it instantly brought the gloss back and removed the scratches that were being addressed.



Seeing it was enough to make me think I'd never use the red pad on a PC unless absolutely necessary, and only on spot areas. Just like there is only so aggressive you can go by hand, there is also only so aggressive you can go bey PC before you really need to step up to another tool. :nixweiss
 
Ive used the burgundy with DACP and 1Z Ultra, the car in questions needs a rotary to remove the defects. I did follow with the yellow pad as well as some LC polishing pads
 
Aurora40 said:
Mike did a nice demo of the burgundy pad on a PC at the Autopia Detail Day. It definitely dulled the finish on the area he applied it. However, it did do more work than the yellow pad. Then Mike tossed the red pad on the rotary, and it instantly brought the gloss back and removed the scratches that were being addressed.



Seeing it was enough to make me think I'd never use the red pad on a PC unless absolutely necessary, and only on spot areas. Just like there is only so aggressive you can go by hand, there is also only so aggressive you can go bey PC before you really need to step up to another tool. :nixweiss
Click to expand...



Thank you Aurora40 for sharing what you saw in the demonstration. I know I have tried to explain a number of times that the PC has its limitations as far as removing defects.



Point being, on most paint types, getting more aggressive with the PC, either with pad, chemical or pressure, while it may remove the defect, it will often dull the surface down, not bring the gloss up.



And as you pointed out, hitting the same spot with the same chemicals and pad only substituting the rotary buffer instead of the PC , quickly and easily restored a crystal clear, high gloss surface.



I will in the future be working on some new ideas for what it's worth.



Mike
 
Bill D said:
Ive used the burgundy with DACP and 1Z Ultra, the car in questions needs a rotary to remove the defects. I did follow with the yellow pad as well as some LC polishing pads
Click to expand...



I tend to hold the PC results to the standard set by the rotary.



By this I mean, the Meguair's philosophy is to always be working forward in the paint polishing process, not backwards.



If the PC dulls the finish but removes the defect, that's not exactly moving forward in the process. And while "yes", following it with a milder polish and a different foam pad may restore the gloss and clearness, because the rotary will not have dulled the finish to start with, then it is the better choice because it moves the process forward.



Does that make sense?



Of course I understand a lot of people do not own a rotary or the skills to use it so they are trying to accomplish the same thing with the PC, I just cannot recommend that procedure because I would be recommending dulling the finish.



Mike
 
Wow, have not heard about the burgundy pad/dacp combo with dulling the surface.



Why does it dull it? You can apply dacp by hand without dulling right...then you follow with #82.



Is it a product issue or is it a pad issue or is it just that combo issue?



TIA
 
Superior Shine said:
Just about any combo can be used to achieve your desired results. Having said that, the maroon pad generally isn't used with DACP and an orbital.



The maroon pad is made to cut and should be used with a more agressive product than DACP.
Click to expand...



Does that mean the yellow polishing pad is suited for DACP on a DA then?



- Randy
 
There are lots of Autopians using cutting pads and getting good results. Some use the burgundy pad from Megs and some use the yellow from Lake Country. So now it's not a good idea to use them without a rotary?
 
Mike Phillips said:
I tend to hold the PC results to the standard set by the rotary.



By this I mean, the Meguair's philosophy is to always be working forward in the paint polishing process, not backwards.



If the PC dulls the finish but removes the defect, that's not exactly moving forward in the process. And while "yes", following it with a milder polish and a different foam pad may restore the gloss and clearness, because the rotary will not have dulled the finish to start with, then it is the better choice because it moves the process forward.



Does that make sense?



Of course I understand a lot of people do not own a rotary or the skills to use it so they are trying to accomplish the same thing with the PC, I just cannot recommend that procedure because I would be recommending dulling the finish.



Mike
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Hi Mike,



Yes I know exactly what you mean but I knew from experience with my finish I would have to start with the burgundy pad and the 1z ultra to get any improvement at all. I didn't see dulling probably due to the white paint but I did need to follow with lighter polishes to get the shine optimized.



Now I have a clear and shiny finsih but still with defects.It's been the case for years :rolleyes: Once I practice enough with the rotary, I'm betting the most mild combination of pad and polish will eliminate or at least greatly reduce the defects
 
Just a few more notes, the car was black, which made it much easier to see the dulling. And the paint still looked nice, it was in comparison to the paint next to it (which had been worked with the PC, DACP, and a polishing pad) that you could really see the dulling. It wasn't like the paint looked all chalky and crappy or anything. But you could see the dullness pretty clearly.



Also, the PC with the cutting pad did reduce the scratching much more than the polishing pad did.



But the rotary wiped them right out, and the gloss was instantly restored. It was kind of amazing how glossy it was considering Mike was still working the paint and the excess product hadn't even been buffed off yet!
 
Malachi said:
Wow, have not heard about the burgundy pad/dacp combo with dulling the surface.



Why does it dull it? You can apply dacp by hand without dulling right...then you follow with #82.



Is it a product issue or is it a pad issue or is it just that combo issue?



TIA
Click to expand...



Read what rjstaaf wrote above about the comparison.



If you start with a flawless black finish, and use the cutting pad on the PC, it will tend to dull the finish. If you started out on a really oxidized finish it would improve it.



Point being, if your starting out with a really bad looking finish and you improve it with the foam cutting pad, as good as it looks, it will never be as clear as if you had used the foam cutting pad on the rotary.



Also, in the example of demonstrating how a cutting pad can dull a surface on black paint, (actueally clear over black, but same effect), if the foam cutting pad on a PC is dulling a black finish, to me, this means it dulls all finishes, the pad doesn't care what color the paint is. It's just on lighter color paints, it will be harder to see.



One man's ceiling is another man's floor, (or something like that)



Mike
 
Well, let's think for a moment. Are we concerned with the intermediate results, or the final results? If the total amount of paint removed is the same, but the rotary does it in 20 minutes and the PC does it in 3 hours, so what if you stop and look 1 hour into the PC job and the paint is dulled? You've only removed some of the total amount of paint that you would've removed with the rotary anyhow, and now you're going to smooth it out and shine it up, and the total amount of paint removed is the same, and the car looks like glass. Sounds good to me.



I don't see that as moving backward, unless you stopped after using the cutting pad & PC. When the rotary leaves holographs, you don't stop there, either.





Tom
 
I have both the CMA and Meguiars cutting pads now. The orange CMA pad was not hazing black paint using #9 but I think it is a less aggressive pad. I'll have to play around with the Meguiars pad and see how it works out for me.
 
IIRC, that orange pad is supposed to be like somewhere between a cutting and polishing pad? I don't have one, but seem to recall that from when it was introduced.
 
Mosca said:
Well, let's think for a moment. Are we concerned with the intermediate results, or the final results? If the total amount of paint removed is the same, but the rotary does it in 20 minutes and the PC does it in 3 hours, so what if you stop and look 1 hour into the PC job and the paint is dulled? You've only removed some of the total amount of paint that you would've removed with the rotary anyhow, and now you're going to smooth it out and shine it up, and the total amount of paint removed is the same, and the car looks like glass. Sounds good to me.



I don't see that as moving backward, unless you stopped after using the cutting pad & PC. When the rotary leaves holographs, you don't stop there, either.





Tom
Click to expand...



I hear what you are saying Mosca. Color sanding is a sometimes necessary step towards removing defects. It will make all the paint around the defect look like crapola, but once you buff out the sanding marks, the defect is gone and it all looks awesome (hopefully). But I can see what Mike's saying too, that there are tools that won't cause this intermediate dullness.



As an aside, I was polishing up the Regal this weekend. I went over some scratches on the hood with the Cyclo, the polishing pads, and DACP. It helped, but not a lot (they are significant, and I probably don't want to totally remove them anyway). I switched to the cutting pads and DACP, and did a smaller area. I was really looking and looking and I couldn't see any hazing from it. It could be that it is green, not black, or the metallic makes it harder to spot, but I also think it might be that the Cylco has more aggressive action and that maybe it doesn't leave the hazing the PC does (I didn't care enough to go get the PC also to compare PC to Cyclo with cutting pads). It could also be the Cyclo cutting pad isn't quite as aggressive as the burgundy pad. I finished the hood off with SFP and a polishing pad just in case I was missing the haze (and SFP is nice and glossy). :nixweiss
 
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