DA + surbuf pads = rotary + wool?

Kevin Brown said:
The Surbuf can level paint more accurately than a rotary.

Do not read this to mean the Surbuf cuts paint faster than a rotary. I didn't claim that.

Do not read this to mean that it will be easy to do. It's not necessarily easy.

Leveling, in the world of paint polishing, means to minimize the height variance between the high and low points of a surface.
It does not mean "eliminate paint".

But yes, I have done it, and am only a wee bit ashamed to say that on my several occasions I could not LEVEL a painted surface to the same degree as I could using the Surbuf powered by the lowly random orbital. I am not saying that the rotary, at times, will outperform the Surbuf because it certainly will, and do so with ease. But for those of you that do not know how to rotary polish or don't own a rotary machine, this pad/machine combo gives you some hope!
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Kevin,
You need to post here more frequently. Every time I read your posts, I learn something.
 
2nd that one Barry. Even better would be a youtube post of you using Surbuf pads with YOUR method - the infamous KBM!!!=P~=P~=P~
 
RaskyR1 said:
I'm going to have to pick your brain on this one some day. :)
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Happy to chat with you, but the info is already out! The techniques outlined in the original Surbuf write-up still apply. It just takes time to dial in the little nuances that make the difference between "pretty good" and "I can't believe what I am seeing here!"

As busy as you are, and the type of cars you've been working on don't allow for trial and error. Totally understandable. Test panels are a good way to practice technique. A full-bake cookie sheet is about $6 at a typical restaurant supply place. If I recall correctly, you are working paint & body shop or your Pop does. Easy for you to shoot the cookie sheets.

For anybody else that doesn't have such easy access... drop a few off at the friendly neighborhood paint shop and ask, "Can you shoot some paint on these, at your convenience? I don't care which color you use, just use whatever is left over in a gun that day. It don't have to be perfect either because I'm gonna practice sanding & buffing on them." They'll probably hit you up for five or 10 bucks a sheet, or just spray them for free.

Flash Gordon said:
Get ready for your head to explode X_X
Maybe we could turn this into a Chat Room discussing one night :-?
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Why is it when you say stuff like that I crack up?! :driving:

Bunky said:
It is finally nice to see that the polishes/pads are evolving rather than requring more expensive polishing machines.
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Yes. A cutting compound that works incredibly well that rivals most polishes for finishing.. $7-$10 buffing pads that last a long time, are washable, and deliver impressive results... $100 random orbitals that are looked upon as a viable alternative to a rotary... this is a great time to polish paint! :Dancing Dot:

bmw5541 said:
Kevin,
You need to post here more frequently. Every time I read your posts, I learn something.
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Thanks. It's statements like yours that keep me writing such long winded posts.
You learn about polishing... I get to practice my four-fingered typing skills. \m/

grungy said:
2nd that one Barry. Even better would be a youtube post of you using Surbuf pads with YOUR method - the infamous KBM!!!=P~=P~=P~
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I can't even finish a paper... what makes you think I could shoot videos?!? :D

bufferbarry said:
Once this is understood fully your paint polishing will change forever. Thats one of the best statements I ever heard.
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Thanks, Barry. Keep on experimenting!! :spy:
 
Kevin Brown said:
Happy to chat with you, but the info is already out! The techniques outlined in the original Surbuf write-up still apply. It just takes time to dial in the little nuances that make the difference between "pretty good" and "I can't believe what I am seeing here!"

As busy as you are, and the type of cars you've been working on don't allow for trial and error. Totally understandable. Test panels are a good way to practice technique. A full-bake cookie sheet is about $6 at a typical restaurant supply place. If I recall correctly, you are working paint & body shop or your Pop does. Easy for you to shoot the cookie sheets.

For anybody else that doesn't have such easy access... drop a few off at the friendly neighborhood paint shop and ask, "Can you shoot some paint on these, at your convenience? I don't care which color you use, just use whatever is left over in a gun that day. It don't have to be perfect either because I'm gonna practice sanding & buffing on them." They'll probably hit you up for five or 10 bucks a sheet, or just spray them for free.
Click to expand...

That's actually a great idea as they can be stored away nice a neatly, unlike actual car panels/hoods. They should be real easy to secure down with some vice grips too. Thanks for the idea! My Pop works at a restoration shop but we have done some painting at my place too. Actually, he may be coming to SEMA with me and it would be great to meet up with you and a bunch of the other guys from the forums. ;)

I'll have to look up that Surbuf article as I'm not 100% sure if I've read the whole thing or not. I have had excellent results with them so far, but I haven't really been able to experiment with them yet.

Cheers,
Rasky
 
Here's the "...Surbuf is a Defect Killer" link:
http://truthindetailing.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=294

Here's a super easy way to easily lock the cookie sheets into place:

stanley4inchcornerbracket.jpg


I used two brackets per panel, but four works fine, too. I used a drip pan under the cookie pans to keep things tidy at our NXTti classes, but you can just screw these brackets into a wood-top table.

Even better, get an inexpensive piece of laminated particleboard from Home Depot, screw or clamp it to a table, then attach the brackets to it. Wipe off is a breeze.

Here's how we used the brackets and sheets at our Meguiar's NXTti classes:

Jason Rose of Meguiar's buffing a panel:
2JasonTeaching1-1.jpg


Mike Pennington of Meguiar's giving some technique pointers:
2MikePteaching.jpg


Mark willie of Mirka Abrasives throttling a Bulldog sander:
184Pictures_1_248-med.jpg


Mike Phillips chats about wetsanding... Kevin is listening:
184NXT8-med.jpg


There's enough room for two guys per cookie sheet:
2Sanding.jpg


Joe from the world famous Superior Shine sanding with Mirka Abralon:
2Joe1.jpg


Jason Rose in full-teaching mode:
2BillP1.jpg


Cheap, sturdy, and unobtrusive !!
 
Kevin Brown said:
Happy to chat with you, but the info is already out! The techniques outlined in the original Surbuf write-up still apply. It just takes time to dial in the little nuances that make the difference between "pretty good" and "I can't believe what I am seeing here!"
Click to expand...

Where can the original surbuf writeup be located. I would love to thumb through this one

Jon
 
Kevin Brown said:
The Surbuf can level paint more accurately than a rotary.

Do not read this to mean the Surbuf cuts paint faster than a rotary. I didn't claim that.

Do not read this to mean that it will be easy to do. It's not necessarily easy.

Leveling, in the world of paint polishing, means to minimize the height variance between the high and low points of a surface.
It does not mean "eliminate paint".

But yes, I have done it, and am only a wee bit ashamed to say that on several occasions, I could not LEVEL a painted surface to the same degree using a rotary as I could using the Surbuf (powered by the lowly random orbital). I am not saying that the rotary, at times, will not outperform the Surbuf because it certainly will, and do so with ease. But for those of you that do not know how to rotary polish or don't own a rotary machine, this pad/machine combo gives you some hope!
Click to expand...
Kevin,

I'm aware the latest research has shown a 7" surbuf with a 6" backing plate is the most effective in keeping the fingers from bending. How about a 6" surbuf with a 5" backing plate? My question is, if there's a 1" difference between the pad and the backing plate, is that what's important? Or, regardless, the bigger the pad the less chance of bending the fingers?
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
Kevin,

I'm aware the latest research has shown a 7" surbuf with a 6" backing plate is the most effective in keeping the fingers from bending. How about a 6" surbuf with a 5" backing plate? My question is, if there's a 1" difference between the pad and the backing plate, is that what's important? Or, regardless, the bigger the pad the less chance of bending the fingers?
Click to expand...

It has to do with the weight of the machine and user applied pressure, and how they affect the pad.
You could feasibly use a 3" pad, a 3" backing plate and a one pound machine, hold the weight of the machine in the palm of your hand, and still have an "ideal" condition for optimum performance.

Whenever possible, it is always best to support the pad using a backing plate that closely matches the diameter of the pad to reduce pad flutter.
 
Kevin Brown said:
Whenever possible, it is always best to support the pad using a backing plate that closely matches the diameter of the pad to reduce pad flutter.
Click to expand...
If I'm not mistaken, you originally used a 6.5" pad with a 6" backing plate, but then suggested a 7" pad with a 6" backing plate is better? :confused:
 
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