CTS-V Black Diamond Edition

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imported_Intermezzo

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A couple of weekends ago I added six coats of ZFX and one final coat of unmixed Z-2 and buffed everything with a COTTON towel. However, after each coat, I noticed swirly patterns all over my car and attributed that to spiderwebbing. Those swirly patterns were gone this morning when I examined my car under the sun. But what a shock initially. I'd do a few passes to buff a panel and I'd see brilliantly shiney lines all over the panel (I was detailing under the sun). This was most pronounced in my final coat with unmixed Z-2.

This morning I added two coats of ZFX/Z-5 to my wife's black bimmer (again, under the sun) and buffed my coats with an <strong class='bbc'>MF Towel[/b] and <strong class='bbc'>didn't[/b] get any of the sealant marring I got back when I buffed with a cotton towel. And just to test things out, I did a small portion with a Koala towel and got the same marring as before (which the second coat pretty much got rid of).

To all you Zaino users who buff with cotton, do you notice any marring of the sealant when buffing?

I hate using MF's to buff Zaino because it takes significantly more effort than cotton, but this marring I'm getting is making me nervous, even if it is temporary. My guess is that buffing with cotton will leave marks on your freshly applied coat of Z, but over time as the coats are 100% crosslinked, the marring somehow evens out. Does this sound like a reasonable hypothesis or just total BS?

Also, my cotton towels have NEVER felt soft, even though they are all Charismas & Koalas. I've tried everything from hang drying to removing them from the drier before they are fully dried. Anything else I could try to make my towels softer? I noticed that our older bath towels (Ralph Lauren) were much much softer than my Charismas.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Tony
 
Ive also noticed that with cotton towels but with Carnuba wax..When I started using Mf's the marring stopped....Ive only applied 5 coats of Z5 and used MF's to buff out and I haven't noticed any marring yet..
 
I would guess that it is due to the fiber size and it leaving marks in the sealant when wiping. As the Mf fibers are smaller and probably more uniform in size and density as you wipe the MF will buff out the marks as another MF fiber passes over upon removal of the Z.



But this could be total BS too.



Ps I sold the dark car a long time ago....Too much.....headache..............................





PSS....................IS..........FLONI .................still...............with..............us.????????
 
I’m glad that someone brought this up, as I agree with that on the Charismas.

When I first bought them, they felt pretty rough to me. I thought they would eventually soften once I wash it. After all, isn’t the thickness of the towel more important? Well, they didn’t soften up and marred my finish while removing Z2. Ouch.

I went back to Macys and bought some Charisma Selects. I heard that they were even plusher, but lighter and softer. After a wash, they were still hard, so I only used it to dry. At least it soaked a <em class='bbc'>lot[/i] of water.

Then a few days later at Costco, I found some Egyptian cotton bath towels. They weren’t as thick as the Charismas, but they sure were soft. I bought 3 of them and now sometimes use them for drying, removing waxes, and QDing clean cars.

I later came to conclude that the thicker the towel, the more strands of cotton per square inch... making it a safe choice for dust pick-up because of its <strong class='bbc'>thick[/b] nap. However, I haven’t found a thick towel as <strong class='bbc'>soft[/b] as the thinner 100% Egyptian cotton towels. They felt much softer, but the thin nap made me worry about contaminates trapped between the paint and towel.

Now with that said, I really appreciate MF towels. They have enough fibers per square inch, yet quality ones remain soft.



Happy detailing,
~bw
 
How hard are you pressing with the towel? I find Zaino, especially with ZFX exceptionally easy to remove without any pressure. I haven't seen any marring using Charisma's. I use an MF with Z6 to buff in-between, but use the terry to remove the Z. As for the Koala towel....I don't think that is a very good choice. I found it to be very coarse compared to Charisma's.



H
 
I've used Royal Velvets exclusively for buffing Zaino for a few years now and I've never noticed any marring. The only time I notice anything similar to what you're describing is when I try to buff off a coat of Z2/Z5 before it's fully dried, which rarely happens. Are you letting the Zaino dry long enough? If the lines are as shiney as you describe, it really sounds like you're buffing it prematurely or simply not removing all the film. The only thing I could suggest is give it maybe an extra 15 to 30 minutes before you buff. Also, if Z6 makes those lines go away, then it's almost certain to be undried product left on the surface.











:xyxthumbs
 
Yea, Royal Velvets are the "thinner, but softer" kind of towel. It's great for removing Z or anything you dont want too much friction on.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by bigboyhf [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>How hard are you pressing with the towel? I find Zaino, especially with ZFX exceptionally easy to remove without any pressure. I haven't seen any marring using Charisma's. I use an MF with Z6 to buff in-between, but use the terry to remove the Z. As for the Koala towel....I don't think that is a very good choice. I found it to be very coarse compared to Charisma's.

H [/b]</blockquote>Bigboyhf, that's what confuses me. I use very light pressure and focus on using many lighter passes as opposed to fewer passes with stronger pressure. I agree that Zaino comes off with very little effort when using cotton. MF, on the other hand, makes Z buffing harder to do but I use it for the Z-6 like you.

BW, Maybe I'll give those Egyptian cotton towels a try. Personally, I just don't understand when someone marvels at how soft the Charisma's are.........because I don't think they are soft at all. I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Metallic Mike, you may have something there. I'll definitely try letting it dry longer next time. Since it takes me at least 20 mintues to apply ZFX to the entire car, I just start buffing right away. Maybe that isn't such a good idea. I'll try it out tomorrow.
 
I agree that finding the perfect towel is like the Holy Grail. My favorites are several year old 100% cotton beach towels. They are thin, VERY, VERY soft, very absorbant and perfect for drying and polishing off wax. I search everywhere for the right towels and they are hard to find and come up in the most unlikely places. I live in St. Louis but last year was on vacation in North Carolina and wandered into a Piggly Wiggly grocery store and in the aisle where they have a few assorted non food items they had some tourist beach items and these PERFECT towels. I bought all they had in stock. The check out gal thought I was drunk. I wish they had more! I have not seen any as nice since. Usually they are a cotton blend or have too many colors dyed in that make them stiff.



It's unfortunate that microfiber towel manufacturing technology is so inconsistant. Grrr!
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Intermezzo [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>I hate using MF's to buff Zaino because it takes significantly more effort than cotton, but this marring I'm getting is making me nervous, even if it is temporary. My guess is that buffing with cotton will leave marks on your freshly applied coat of Z, but over time as the coats are 100% crosslinked, the marring somehow evens out. Does this sound like a reasonable hypothesis or just total BS?Tony [/b]</blockquote>
I don't have explanation about marring with cotton towels since I didn't notice it back in the days that I use cotton, but I just want to agree with you about MF takes more effort buffing off Z (at least for me on a black car). I've tried various ways including spraying one shot of Z6 on the MF each panel, or spraying Z6 directly over the unbuffed Z haze, but those didn't help.

Anyway, I'm NOT saying Z is difficult to buff. Just wish it could be a tad easier!
 
That's very intersting- for MF seems much, much easier. I am going to apply more coats of Z2 next weekend. I will use both types of towel and compare.
 
sorry for interrupting,

could you please tell me how many MF's you approx. use for buffing a Z'd car (large SUV)?



Merci beaucoup :D
 
I don't know about others, but I fold my towel in quarters and use 1 side on each panel then flip side (I treat my hood as 2 panels). Takes 2 towles on my cars & SUV!
 
Thanks , William,

I'm asking this because Sal recomends large bath-towels,and a bath towel is about 10 times bigger than an MF.



:)
 
very soft.Once I picked up some MF's I quit using the charisma's for QDing and only use the MF's.I also noticed maring with these cotton towels that I do not with MF's.



I will still use the charisma's very lightly to remove Z-2 and Z5 but when the coat of Z-6 goes on right after I use a MF to apply and remove the Z-6 and it seems to cut down on noticable maring.I usally let the ZFX combo dry at lease 40 minutes so I feel like it should be dry:confused:



I will stop using the cotton all together once I get more quality MF's.The charisma's will be drying towels for my wife's white car.
 
I'm getting this matrix effect also under night lights

and in direct sun on my dark green car.

This is my only knock against Zaino.



I wonder if temperature has anything to do with this

as I did my multiple coats on days ranging from

45 to 55. I used both terries and MF's.



Will keep experimenting. Maybe in the spring I'll strip

one half of the trunk lid with 3M SMR and start over

and see what happens.



Or I may try to find a black ceramic tile and test with

it just to see what happens.
 
I have not seen this marring. Zaino dries hard and I have never seen what you are describing. I HAVE seen the effects of not letting Zaino dry long enough. The undried polish smears around and mirrors the towels wiping pattern and looks like swirls. This can be removed by going over the car with a damp towel or sometimes Z6ing. At times Z6ing makes it worse if there is a lot of it. A Z7 wash will level it out for sure. The fact that this marring disappears leads me to believe that you are not seeing a physical mar in the paint or zaino layer but something else...........keep us posted. Isn't black fun!?
 
On a related note, I noticed something REALLY interesting the other day. When I first applied Zaino, I did 3 coats of Z5/ZFX in one day. The applicator I was using had more product in the center than on the edges, so each pass of the applicator would leave white "streak" of Zaino in the center. It looked like there were pinstripes running down my car.



Becasue the sun was going down and I was not careful enough, I didn't do a good job of buffing off one of the coats, and inadvertently left the excess Z pinstripes on- and appleid another coat of ZFX on top of them. In other words, I "sealed in" the stripes of excess Zaino.



I never fixed this, because you could not see the stripes except at a certain angle, and becuase I was just too lazy to strip off the Z and start over.



Last weekend I washed my car in bright sunlight, which allowed me to see every angle. Guess what- the pinstripes were gone! I guess they had crosslinked into the other coats of Z. How awesome! The problem fixed itself without my having to lift a finger!
 
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