Could I use a a Rotary? Or something else?

S

ShawnF350

New member
I currently own a Griots Garage 6" DA and the Flex 3401.
I have an older vehicle that I haven't had a chance to try and correct major swirling using the 3401. I mostly maintain my vehicles finishes but have friends and family wanting their cars done too.

Would it be beneficial to purchase a Flex PE 14-2? Or are rotarys more for body shops and people who detail cars with major damage?
I am trying to find if it has a place in my arsenal or if I should stay away from such a "dangerous" tool if I haven't used one in 20 years. I had a Milwaukee 5540 which I only used foam pads on many years ago. Being that it was too heavy and that I never used it much, I sold it on CraigsList a few years ago. I now have the money for a rotary, but was wondering if there are any other neat detailing toys I should buy instead.

I already have a steamer, and a MetroBlaster Sidekick and plenty of Polishes and Waxes.

Any input is greatly appreciated.
Christmas is getting close and I was hoping whatever I order Autopia could have it to me by Christmas.
 
Both machines have a place in the detailing world...if your purchasing for just personal use on personal vehicles get the Flex 3401...great machine yet effective and just about fool proof...as for a Rotary....I have 5 machines..I would never let go of my Makita...I still love that machine....
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I have to give a +1 with Wendell Jarvis' post above this --

Also have the Flex 3401-VRG, the Flex PE 14-250, and the Makita 9227C Rotary...

The Flex PE14-250 Rotary is smaller, lighter, makes a lot of gear noise, and does not have the top speed of the Makita 9227C. It doesnt seem to like me pressing down on it very hard.. I never use it..

The Flex 3401-VRG I purchased years ago when they first came to the US.. Nice, rotates counter-clockwise, will be easier to learn on but you have to get used to the rotation, a good machine with forced rotation.. With the 5" pad, its much easier to handle the counter clockwise torque, I hardly use it..

The Makita 9227C - a workhorse, weighs 10lbs, so you get a great upper body workout, does everything right and does it quickly; keeping it moving and the pad absolutely flat are the biggest things to learn; you dont need blazing speeds like in the 60's to get stunning correction and clarity; works best for me with the 5-1/4" pad size, media and foam moist to keep dusting away; anytime you see a job swirled up from a Rotary is because the user has not used the machine correctly and is not paying attention.. I never swirl anything..

All have their place in a Detailing Shop, I prefer to use the Makita 9227C Rotary for everything, even down to 3"-4" pads and a spacer to keep the machine farther away from the work, but that's just me..

Good luck,
Dan F
 
Ronkh said:
With the right pad/polish combo I haven't needed a rotary in years
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Same here, both my rotaries just gather dust on the shelf. A few years back a rotary was pretty much mandatory for serious correction of hard paint, but not any more; today it's a whole different ballgame.

I have no problems getting things done with the Flex3401, finishing up with either the Griot's or Cyclo.

ShawnF350- Given the learning curve, I don't think the rotary is what you need. I'd gain experience with the Flex 3401 instead. With the right pad and product, the Flex 3401 should be able to handle anything you need to do.

If you simply must satisfy the urge to buy another polisher, get a Rupes. But even though I love to, uhm....accumulate tools, I don't think you actually *need* it. You'll be able to do anything that needs doing (and safely) in far less time than it'd take to gain even a beginner's level of competence with the rotary.

In all fairness, there is *one* other polisher I find useful, my little 3" pneumatic. For spot-correction, a 3" unit can be great. But don't buy something cheap/worthless or it'll just be a waste of money.
 
Accumulator said:
Same here, both my rotaries just gather dust on the shelf. A few years back a rotary was pretty much mandatory for serious correction of hard paint, but not any more; today it's a whole different ballgame.

I have no problems getting things done with the Flex3401, finishing up with either the Griot's or Cyclo.

ShawnF350- Given the learning curve, I don't think the rotary is what you need. I'd gain experience with the Flex 3401 instead. With the right pad and product, the Flex 3401 should be able to handle anything you need to do.

If you simply must satisfy the urge to buy another polisher, get a Rupes. But even though I love to, uhm....accumulate tools, I don't think you actually *need* it. You'll be able to do anything that needs doing (and safely) in far less time than it'd take to gain even a beginner's level of competence with the rotary.

In all fairness, there is *one* other polisher I find useful, my little 3" pneumatic. For spot-correction, a 3" unit can be great. But don't buy something cheap/worthless or it'll just be a waste of money.
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Why on earth would you need to use another machine to follow up after using a FLEX. ....??? You lost me on that....
 
wendell jarvis said:
Why on earth would you need to use another machine to follow up after using a FLEX. ....??? You lost me on that....
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I've found that I can achieve a *SLIGHTLY* better final finish with a non-forced-rotation unit. I get the best finish with my Cyclos, but they won't always accommodate a vehicle's contours and in those cases I use the GG.

I vaguely recall somebody....perhaps John Kleven... doing studies with a glossmeter that also found the Cyclo to give a better final finish with other vairables held constant.

In all fairness, the Flex 3401 does leave a very nice finish, it's not like there's some obvious deficiency in that area and if somebody's happy with how it leaves things then I'll be the first to say that's perfectly OK. But for some people, in some circumstances, a follow-up with another RO polisher might be worth trying.

That's leaving aside the user-friendliness issue; some people simply dislike using the Flex 3401. No, I'm not in that camp, but I will say that IMO the Cyclo is as close to enjoyable as polishers get and, again just IMO, much more pleasant to use than the Flex 3401 (as is the GG and just listen to how people rave about how nice the Rupes is).
 
Just for fun...

Rotary or DA - HEAVY Cutting
DA for single passes - Ie polishing
Rotary ONLY - For Jeweling

Imo ~ If your just doing this for friends and family, You have more than enough. The 3401 is more than most weekend warriors have and need. Most WW's I know have a griot's or an HF DA if they are on a budget. You don't need the flex Pe, it's more of a want unless your doing highly technical areas like small body coupes an tight clearance spaces.

Me personally as a pro ~

I use 1-2 machines but have 7.


Rupes 15 - Single step light corrections - New car preps. By far the smoothest DA I've ever owned.

Rupes 21 - My most go to machine, Single Heavy or two steppers, Extreme cutter for waterspot removal

Rupes LHR75E Mini - My second go to. I use this for single steppers in smaller more complex area's such as under spoilers, around an under mirrors and polishing B pillars. Also make's a great spot sander. This is the most powerful mini DA out, it's throw beats the GG's... :D

Flex 3401 - Single Heavy or two steppers, also used in area's of heavy curvature like Porsches.

Flex Pe14-2 - I use this for extremely tight area's that dual action's "throw" can damage an use this for technical polishing where speed an control are very important. This machine I almost solely use for Jeweling.

Hitachi Sp18Va - My Full size rotor, I'm a low speed rotary guy so the Sp was a no brainer. Low speeds an very good control, plus heavy weight... I love doing flat panels like roofs, makes my day easier. Let the machine do the work.

Dodo Juice Spin doctor - The smallest, lightest weight rotary out. A very cool machine but rarely use it. It's kinda weird working with a rotary so light you can one hand it, anytime.
 
Thanks for the great info from everyone.
I'll hold off until I see what I can do to my highly swirled '98 Mercury Marquis using some Poorboys Master Cut. Hopefully next week I can try if the weather isn't too cold in NJ to work in my garage. Poorboys Pro Polish/Pro polish 2/ and Meguiars Ultimate compound didn't even take a bite out of it.
I had some success on half the roof with the 3401 and a Orange LC 5.5 flat using Griot's #1 Polish. But it took some time.

I eventually want to do my wife's 2010 Ford Edge hood but waiting until I get more experience removing swirls. Griot's #3 never worked but I don't want to practice on that car. And #3 dusts like powder everywhere.
 
What part of NJ are you in, if your willing to make the trip on a weekend. I'd be more then happy to show you some techniques and how to get the most out of your machine's. I've owned almost every polisher you can think of minus a festool an cyclo. I'm in Huntington, Long Island.
 
I'm in South Jersey .. Deptford Twp. I'll have to see if i'm up for the drive when it warms up if the offer remains open. I was planning on taking a weekend trip to Poorboys Detail weekend to see if I could learn some tips in 2015. (but thats in June)
I will have next week off so I may see what I can accomplish. If I can't get good results I give up until I get some help.
Thank You
 
I haven't used my rotary since I got a full complement of Rupes'. I use the LHR75E for tight spots and spot correction and the LHR21ES for the rest of the car alternating between 6.5 and 5 inch pads. The FLEX 3401 was the last "game changer" for me but Rupes has replaced both my rotary and FLEX. Definitely do the washer mod.

- Patrick
 
ShawnF350- I've worked on Ford Panthers (Grand Marquis/Crown Vic/Town Car) of that vintage and IME the clear is in the true "medium" range. Sure not hard like my Audis or even GMs and not stupid-soft either.

I did OK using my Flex 3401 and the GG with M105, with the best correction coming from either MF Cutting Disks or Meguiar's maroon foam cutting pads (both the newer one and the older 7006). I used M105 for the initial cutting, but if doing it today I'd use M101.

IME GG MP#3 is an *exteremely* mild polish; I used it on a fresh repaint that wouldn't accept my usual (mild) polishes without micormarring. Sure not gonna do any correction IMO. Their MP#1 can do some cutting with the right machine/pads, but with stuff like M101 on the market I'd use the latter instead.

It does indeed take time. Don't let what you read on the internet give you unrealistic expectations; pick a one-foot square area and work that until it's OK. CLEAN THE PAD(s) OFTEN, don't go a whole panel without cleaning out the pad or getting out a fresh one. Just let it take as long as it takes.
 
Accumulator, I still have money burning a hole in my pocket.
I do have a 3" Griot's polisher that I think is useless.
What type of pneumatic were you referring to? Make and model.
That may come in handy for some blemishes I would like to remove without doing the whole panel.
 
Shawn350- Heh heh, I'd really like to be a stick-in-the-mud and tell you to save that money, but OK.. I too have a useless Griot's electric. Well, not quite useless but my first one died right away and I haven't used the replacement for ages.

I have the Griot's pneumatic, but if I were you I'd buy the Rupes. A small Rupes polisher for spot-correction (the only kind an Autopian oughta be doing for the most part, at least IMO) would be great. Some day I'll get one to upgrade from my current unit.

Sorry, no idea on the model# as I haven't really looked into it.
 
Rotary isn't a necessity, but not a bad tool to have in your arsenal for those what if moments. With all the DA-craziness, I'd look for someone trying to sell their rotary. Nothing like reaching for one when a trashed finish comes your way. They can level down some serious paint defects pretty quick.
 
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