Conversations with Jeff/Werkstatt

Follow up:



Jeff, I let the PRIME cure for 25 minutes and had a tough time removing it. I also had some removal issues with the AJ which I misted on and let sit for 5 minutes. I did use the PC to apply the PRIME. I am pretty stingy with the amount used but had a hard time removing...had to break out some QD for the assist. : (
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Hi Tom,



Thanks for getting in touch.



The additional acrylic polymers in Prime: Acrylic can make it a bit more demanding than original Prime... (for which we've never had a comment that it was difficult to remove!). But I think you're on the right track with PA. It should be thoroughly worked into the surface for a very thin application that leaves very little residue. The difficult to buff portions are usually thicker sections of product. Sometimes, applying by machine can leave thicker ridges of product from the edge of the pad or from where the machine is started/stopped. Keep working to get a uniform, but very thin, application.



If you find that this bit of residue is still difficult to buff clear, wait less time before buffing. The product can be buffed any time after it dries. You're just removing excess; only the thin layer of polymers in solid contact with the surface are able to securely bond. A less-plush microfiber towel sometimes works better to break the residue free. For isolated spots of difficult residue, you can just apply PA again by hand and immediately buff off.



Also, if you're topping the PA with AJ or Trigger, you may not need to do much with any traces. The AJ/Trigger should help to knock down the high spots just like the QD did.



AJ is similar in that the durable polymers can be more difficult to buff smooth if left on too long. So, many of the same recommendations apply. AJ needs to be applied very thin and buffed clear before any thick spots have hardened for too long. Typically, you can work one body panel at a time. In the minute or two that it takes to wipe on a very thin, even coating, it is usually ready to remove.



It's important to keep in mind the difference between the drying and the curing times. Our various acrylic blends dry very quickly and can be buffed smooth any time after that. The actual chemical curing of the polymers occurs in a period of time afterward, with about 80% completed within 30 minutes. If the thicker sections are allowed to cure too long, they get increasingly difficult to level to a smooth, uniformly reflective coating.



Trigger uses the same types of acrylic polymers, and you can see the results obtained even with no waiting time before buffing. (Trigger is currently my personal most-used product! I'm glad you like it.)



I hope this helps. For PA and AJ, you just need to find the right combination of thin application and buffing timing for the best, easiest results. If you have any other questions, my email is always open.



Happy Detailing!





Jeff
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I am getting fantastic results now. Pics below are just PRIME Acrylic version. I don't know what the durability results would be as a standalone product, but the gloss is superior to anything I've seen. I find a slight darkening of the color (which I am pleased about) and extreme wetness! Baby, she's wet !!



I probably should have clayed this car prior to using PRIME. There is still a fair amount of surface crud the PRIME did not remove. We're not talking severe but an Autopian would run his hand across the surface and turn up his nose. The car really hasn't had a comprehensive session since last year.



I applied a coat of TRIGGER last night, will do one more coat later today and be done with it - - I've got another car to do.



I normally don't put these products on glass but I did on this car. I also hit the black chrome trim and the improvement in appearance is stellar.



I find that I was working this product much more aggressively and quite a bit longer than I would AIO, for example. Jeff said to work it in and I did. Virtually no removal issues 10 minutes later. I did not wait 30 mins this time.



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The paint sure looks wet and consider that is only after PA. I will be trying out my PA very soon, can't wait to see the result.
 
The car looks great! However, I'm a little bit confused now. AIO says it can be wiped off immediately. I thought the initial word on Prime was that it should be allowed to dry for 30 minutes or more, while the info above indicates that it can/should be removed as soon as it's dry. Jeff does draw a distinction between drying time and curing time; does that mean that even though you can wipe off Prime immediately, it shouldn't be topped for 30 minutes or more? I've always thought you could top AIO with SG immediately.
 
Setec, not certain if I can address your concern. I guess we're talking about "dry" versus a full "cure". The (PRIME) bottle sez clearly to leave for 30 minutes before removing. IMO, this might be a bit too long. Like AIO, it can very tough to remove if you leave it too long.
 
Yeah, an unfortunate lesson I learned is that when using AIO by machine, you need to go back and clean all the panel edges and the like because that thick AIO buildup on the edge is like iron...I used my fingernail to scrape some old buildup on a friend's car that I thought was wax around the edge of a paint-over-chrome doorhandle...and scraped some of the paint with it :( . I was just interested because Prime sounded like it came with some "baggage" if you had to wait for buffing...but it looks like maybe not.
 
I've been busy this weekend. This is the new badboi ride:



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I am praying the Werkstatt products last as long as Klasse...I have expended a lot of energy on these two cars.
 
While we are on this, anyone tried using AIO then AJ? I am going to get a bottle of AJ for myself and wondering is this combi works since I have the AIO
 
Thanks, guys.



A few more observations:



Durability is 90% of the deal with me. I don't care that much how a product looks for the first few hours of its life - - I do care that it looks excellent 2, 3, and 4 months from now. That's why I have been a long-time advocate of KLASSE. It looks great for a long time. I hope these new Werkstatt products can do the same.



These Werkstatt products produce no dust and do not appear to stain anything which is benefit.



The products must be worked in with more effort than KLASSE. However, the result is a superior gloss, slight darkening of the paint and a "silky" smoothness I've never experienced prior.



Cleaning power of PRIME appears good. I'm gonna say that 90% of the appearance is attributed to PRIME. I've done two coats of AJ on both cars and those extra steps did not give a distinct benefit as we've found with other products. The gloss improved slight. The smoothness improved somewhat. With that said, I don't know if PRIME Acrylic could be used as a stand alone product and enjoy any level of durability.



You cannot permit the Werkstatt products to sit too long after application. ;)



Who said you can't apply AJ with a PC :D I was having much better success than I had with manual application as originally instructed. I just can't lay down thin enough coats of AJ by hand....I can with the PC.



The product is tough to remove when you apply too much. ;)



I think the best combo of products will be the PRIME Acrylic + AJ TRIGGER. I found it extremely helpful to be able to mist AJ TRIGGER onto the PC pad and on a panel. That is a time saver and a material saver.



I really like the fact that I can go right over trim and the glass and not have a concern about residue staining. The glass and black chrome trim look fantastic.



These .5L bottles are going to last forever. My bottles are still virtually full.





Time will be the judge of this product - - let's hope it's up to the task!
 
Tuan209 said:
can the original Prime remove holograms?
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Sure, to some extent. Tuan, are you aware that there are mulitple "grades" of PRIME? Jeff has added a couple new flavors so folks can purchase per their specific need.



Here's what I found on the white car: It appears previous owner was "washing" the car with BHB...the roof and hood were covered with lateral surface scratches. I probably should have used the Makita and the Optimum polish. I took a chance (didn't have adequate time) and let the PRIME Acrylic do its best...and it did a darned good job. I'd guess it removed 93% of the scratching from the brush. When I have time I'll go back with the hi-speed machine and take care of the damage the PC couldn't address.



I really have no complaints. In fact, the PRIME I bought did a better job with the scratching than I would have anticipated on this white car. I don't know if the PRIME corrected the condition or if it temporarily hid it. Time will tell...



HTH.
 
Thanks Tom! Im aware that there are mulitple versions of Prime, but I bought the original before the other versions were avaliable. I would have opted for the "strong" otherwise.
 
tom p. said:




These .5L bottles are going to last forever. My bottles are still virtually full.





Time will be the judge of this product - - let's hope it's up to the task!
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I just had to reorder AJ and I got my first bottle in late May. I have applied it 43 times (I counted!) to various vehicles ranging from Porshe Carreras to Escalades, H2s and F-250s, plus I sent 3 oz to aka Patrick to try. I probably have about 2 oz left. My bottle of Prime is about 3/4ths full, used it on 14 vehicles (didn't get it until this past fall).



The longest I have had AJ on a vehicle without reapplying is an '05 Acura TL. I applied AIO/AJ on July 29th last year and when I washed it on March 24th, it was still beading, looked great and had decent slickness. Can't completely attribute that to AJ though since I applied Z8 on it in December. Still, a single layer of product, refreshed after just over 5 months with Z8 and still beading at nearly 8 months is impressive. I washed it with QEW through the end of '05 about every 6 weeks, similarly with ONR this year. He runs it though the car wash when he gets gas occasionally. Garaged at night, parked outside during the day.
 
Scottwax said:
I just had to reorder AJ and I got my first bottle in late May. I have applied it 43 times (I counted!) to various vehicles ranging from Porshe Carreras to Escalades, H2s and F-250s, plus I sent 3 oz to aka Patrick to try. I probably have about 2 oz left. My bottle of Prime is about 3/4ths full, used it on 14 vehicles (didn't get it until this past fall).



The longest I have had AJ on a vehicle without reapplying is an '05 Acura TL. I applied AIO/AJ on July 29th last year and when I washed it on March 24th, it was still beading, looked great and had decent slickness. Can't completely attribute that to AJ though since I applied Z8 on it in December. Still, a single layer of product, refreshed after just over 5 months with Z8 and still beading at nearly 8 months is impressive. I washed it with QEW through the end of '05 about every 6 weeks, similarly with ONR this year. He runs it though the car wash when he gets gas occasionally. Garaged at night, parked outside during the day.
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Your examples above are the reason I tried Prime/ AJ to begin with. must say I am very inpressed with the lineup. thanks for getting the word out. still can not believe how far a bottle goes, even though I have seen it with my own two eyes :wow:
 
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