Confused on Zaino Prep

Scott P

Scott P

New member
I would like to do some good ol' paint cleaning work to my black Grand Prix and the little woman's Pewter/Black Saturn. I have a new Porter Cable (X-Mas gift from the in-laws), one yellow and two white of the "better" pads from CMA and the Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner. Zaino will be topping both cars. My question is about what to use in between the Medallion and the Zaino. I'm thinking about 3M SMR for Dark or Meg's #9 (the one without the oils).



Will the SMR or #9 cause Zaino bonding problems? I will most likely be using ZFX for the first few coats. Plus, my first detail job when I get my new place will be to clean up my wife's boss's truck that he is letting us use for the move. Black F-150 Extended cab. That should be a fun little job. My garage won't be heated at that point, so I hope it's warm enough.
 
Yes, SMR can cause bonding issues with Zaino. If in doubt wash with Dawn after all the polishing steps are complete. Then move onto Zaino.
 
It depends on how the paint looks after the cleaner step. The 3M and #9 do the same thing so the choice is a personal preference.



For Zaino to bond properly you will need to wash the car after all the polishing is completed. Doesn't matter what products you use, their residues need to come off. Doesn't have to be a Dawn wash or anything fancy.



Warm temps help the products work better. None of these products like to work in the cold. If you can choose the day these detail jobs are gonna happen, all the better.



Keep in mind you are detailing three different cars with three different paint jobs. Do not expect identical results. Be flexible and creative with each car. If you're doing three cars you'd better get 2-3 more yellow pads and 2 more white ones. Also I hope you have a good local source for polishes in case the Medallion and SMR do not do the job.
 
Actually, I am experimenting with the products and my PC. The truck will most likely get just a couple of coats of Z-5 and one of Z-2. Since it's only done as a favor for letting us use it, I'm not going to worry about really cleaning the paint.



The other two cars are the everyday vehicles. Both are in very good condition, but I was going to try my PC out on at least one of them. Do the pads get that dirty or wear out that quickly that I will need 3 more? I'm only planning on doing one car at a time and washing the pads by hand or in the machine on gentle afterwards.
 
Scott P said:




Do the pads get that dirty or wear out that quickly that I will need 3 more? I'm only planning on doing one car at a time and washing the pads by hand or in the machine on gentle afterwards.
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Pads can be damaged, loaded up with product, or dirty. Having only one yellow pad is kinda risky if it gets ruined. I'd have at least one extra at a minimum. It's always better to have too many pads than not enough.



Wash them by hand and let them dry overnight. Do not machine wash pads.
 
Technically, preping for Zaino simply means ensuring you have a nice very clean surface in which to apply Zaino.



The Sal recommended approach is to use a Dawn wash due to it's alkanity. It will strip wax, oils etc. off the surface of the clear to allow proper bonding of Zaino. However, I and many other's have found that 1 wash of Dawn is usually not enough to strip a freshly waxed vehichle so it may take multiple washes. Also, I do not recommend using Dawn even one (keep it in the kitchen).



Now, with that said. Zaino will magnify any and all imprefections so to have a top notch finish with Zaino. It's important to take care of all the blemishes on the surface.



Use the least abrasive product required to the job.



1. Tar/Sap removal

2. Clay to remove embedded micro contaminates

3. Any micro marring/spider webbing

4. Swirls

5. Deep swirls

6. Scratches - Paint touch-up required?

7. Orange Peel



You can you use a hand polish / very light cleaner to remove spiderwebbing or micro-marring.



For Swirls - start with a SMR



For deeper swirls - a fine cut perhaps



For scratches - a medium cut



Orange Peel - 2500 grit wet sanding



Always think, is this the least abrasive product that I can use to deal with problem at hand.



Start with a mild polish (GEPC), if it doesn't do enough, move up to a SMR, if that doesn't do enough, dry a Fine Cut and so on. Then work your way back down the same way,



GEPC, SMR, FC, GEPC, SMR, GEPC etc.



Granted, you WILL not need to do so many steps as stated above once you get familiar with the product cutting power and how each product works and it's intended use.



Typically, SMR/GEPC is enough but somethings going SMR, DACP, SMR, GEPC is needed for finishes requiring a bit of extra TLC.
 
Thanks for the advice. I am familiar with Zaino as I have been using it for almost two years. I have just always used Z-5 for my swirls, etc. I was hoping for advise on what the next level of paint prep for Zaino would be. I didn't want a product that filled swirls only to watch that fill disappear when I dawn washed prior to Zaino.
 
ShowroomLincoln said:
Yes, SMR can cause bonding issues with Zaino. If in doubt wash with Dawn after all the polishing steps are complete. Then move onto Zaino.
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I am actually conducting a teat on this subject. Currently this has been my regiment.



wash

clay

smr

ihg

z1, z2 or zfx z1



Sal has told me, off the record, that SMR, ihg or PIIIhg will not effect the bonding of Z, However many people like showroom have strong beliefs to the contrary. Thus I decided to conduct a test to see. Although I am no expert I will attempt to give MH observations ASAP.



2 weeks ago I did my wifes Z3 roadster as follows:

Wash

Clay

SMR

1/2 IHG

entire car Zfx Z1

I paln to monitor the results and post them to the board.

The problem is that it has not been warmer than 20 degrees since I did it.

Happy Z ing!

Bruce



PS actually as I am writing I realize that SMR can leave behing an abrasive dust. Therefore I should be washing afterwards. I have been doing a QD but perhaps this is inadequate.
 
Bruce Peter said:
Sal has told me, off the record, that SMR, ihg or PIIIhg will not effect the bonding of Z, However many people like showroom have strong beliefs to the contrary. Thus I decided to conduct a test to see. Although I am no expert I will attempt to give MH observations ASAP.
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very interesting. can't wait to hear your results.:xyxthumbs
 
I'm no chemist or anything, but if BFII has no problem bonding to anything except a carnuba, would it be safe to assume that Zaino will perform the same? I know the polymers used are not exactly the same, but I really wonder how different they are in terms of bonding. :nixweiss
 
stanger99 said:
why only off the record? it seems like he should want people to know this.
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to be totally accurate he didn't tell me personally. I have it second hand from an anal retentive, zaino loving detailer. His process is this



wash

clay

pIII rubbing compound

smr

wash

PI hg

z1, z2



When I asked him about this he said, and I quote, "Sal told me my prep is perfect for zaino"

Happy detailing
 
WOOOSH!! I think I just felt fuel being added to this ongoing debate about sealants and glazes or stuff with glaze in them! :D



Interesting stuff.
 
paco said:


However, I and many other's have found that 1 wash of Dawn is usually not enough to strip a freshly waxed vehichle so it may take multiple washes. Also, I do not recommend using Dawn even one (keep it in the kitchen).
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Can you clarify this statement please. What do you mean when you say you don't recommend "using Dawn even one (keep it in the kitchen)"?? Is there a certain type of Dawn that we should use?



And just few more questions :)



I just recently got the PC and would like some info using it in conjunction with Zaino. Would it be advantageous to use the PC to apply and take off Z-2 and/or Z-5??? I ask this only because I've had some bad experience with wax hazing (specifically on the hood). I was hoping to avoid this in the future and was hoping that the PC would aide in that.



Also, I purchased the Meguiars SMR. Would using that in conjunction with the PC get the haze off the hood?



Thanks in advance.
 
Yeah, little type there :)



I just recently got the PC and would like some info using it in conjunction with Zaino. Would it be advantageous to use the PC to apply and take off Z-2 and/or Z-5??? I ask this only because I've had some bad experience with wax hazing (specifically on the hood). I was hoping to avoid this in the future and was hoping that the PC would aide in that.
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The only advantage is that it may be quicker to apply with a PC and some people have an easier time applying a thinner. Key word being some, other's find that a PC applies a thicker layer. It really depends on how good you hand application technique is.



With regards to removal, Zaino comes off very easily and I wouldn't recommend a PC. There's no need for it.



Hazing - The only time you'll get hazing if you apply too much product and you hae a tough time getting it off (use some Z7 or distilled water in a spray bottle) or you'll get smirring if you haven't let the product setup enough.



If you do use Zaino and a PC. Make sure to get your pad right into a strong dawn wash bucket and clean out that pad right away or the Zaino will dry and you'll have a heck of time cleaning that pad.



Paco
 
ejant: Thanks for the welcome :)



Been lurking thru the site for quite awhile and finally had to get this question answered.



Paco:



Thanks for the clarification. Honesty, I thought I had the steps and everything with Zaino down. But then I went and bought the zfx and that sorta just confused me even more.



For example, the curing time and the Z2 and Z5. How does the layering of the Z5 mask the swirls if you already have layer of Z2 on top of the swirl?



I'm thinking about re-stripping the Zain off AGAIN and start all over again. BTW, thanks for the clarification.
 
ZFX shouldn't have confused the issue. The only it does is cut the drying time down such that you are able to apply multiple coats in one day. The exact time for curing is dependant on humidity, technique, finish etc.



Z5 masking swirls. Truth be told. I've never seen Z5 mask any swirls. The problem with swirls is that it's a generic term that encompasses a great many levels of scratches. At the end of the day, don't expect Z5 to hide any. At best, it could minimize micro marring or spiderwebbing but even then, I doubt you would see any appreciable difference, even after 5 coats of Z5 alone.



The difference's between Z2 and Z5 are only noticable on an impeccable surface and with a side by side comparison (in my opinion).



Personally, I use only Z5 because no matter how careful you are, the simple act of drying your vehicle or QD'ing will lead to some very very very fine surface defects. The Z5 could potentially mask those whereas Z2 has not chance but to magnify them.



To answer your question about intermixing Z2/Z5.



Don't think of Z5 as a filler. If it was, then it definitely would do a better job of hiding the blemishes. In that case, intermixing the 2 wouldn't be advantegous. However, think of it in terms of Zaino's ability to allow a perfect view of the clear/paint by allowing an perfect site line to the paint finish.



Z2 being absolutely no opacity - perfect view.

Z5 being a bit obscured - a bit "oily" which would interfere in your ability to see the edges (boundry), it becomes less noticable.



That's way I've always pictured the difference between Z2 and Z5.



Other's may see it in a different way.



So don't worry,



Clay to remove contaminates

Polish to remove swirls (SMR, Fine Cut, Medium Cut)

Super clean surface to allow proper bonding of Zaino (Dawn?)

Seal to protect (Zaino, Klasse, BlackFire)

Use ZFX to speed up curing time of Z2/Z3/Z5.



Clear us a mud eh.



BTW: Getting Zaino off can be a real pain without a light polishing with a SMR. How do you intend on removing Zaino??? IPA/H20 wash?



As it sounds as though you might have some swirls to deal with, go ahead and address those first. Anything you do to remove them will probably remove all the Zaino anyway.



I'm just curious, why do you want to remove the Zaino layers that you have on there?
 
Thanks for the prompt reply and great response.



I guess my biggest problem has always been the fact that I'm impatient. I could never stand waiting the necessary curing time for Z1 or Z2. I usually just applied it, and let it dry (maybe 15 min) then took it off w/ a MF towel. But understand that I live in Southern California, where the weather is usually pretty warm :)



So how's this for a regiment:



1) Wash with Z7

2) Clay with Zaino klay bar ( I still have one stick left).

3) Use SMR. I just bought the Meguiars ScratchX. But somehow I don't think that will work well enough to get rid of the swirls. I was hoping to use the PC for more than just SMR.

4) Wash car again

5) Apply Zaino using the ZFX.



Would it be more advisable to compound (using 3M Fine Cut) then use the ScratchX over that? in lieu of step 3?

I'm assuming that the Clay barring and the subsequent use of the SMR will adequately remove all traces of Zaino?



As I mentioned before, I have the hazing on the hood. I'm assuming the best method to get that off would be to use the clay bar and the smr. Also, the rest of the car has alot of swirl marks, so I basically want to take the Zaino layers off and start with a clean slate. Does that reasoning sound alright???



Thanks again for your input and help!

:up
 
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