concours vs. pinnacle

M

matrix_808

New member
has anyone tried both pinnacle and zymol concours or any other estate glaze? i have pinnacle, but looking at getting a zymol estate glaze (looking at concours right now), but wanted to know if there is a noticeable depth or wetness to the look over pinnacle.
 
I have used both.



IME Souveran is a very good wax. It applies and removes like melted butter which is nice. As far as looks, it leaves the paint unbelievably wet looking the first couple of days or so and then fades a bit but still looks pretty wet. It gives a good amount of reflection, but the reflections are not terribly sharp or accurately reproduced. Plus, it tends to mute flake.



Zymol Concours is also a great wax. It's not as user friendly though. The bare handed application can sometimes be annoying and if you have rough hands it can be bad for the paint. Someone on here once mentioned they warm applicators in an old toaster oven instead of using their hands. Also, you need to make sure you buff off excess really well. I've had problems with streaking in the past because I didn't thoroughly buff the car. A little QD usually fixes up the problem, but in the mean time it almost looks like holograms. As far as looks, it doesn't leave the paint nearly as wet looking as Souveran. It's more of a warm look than a wet look. However, reflections are unbelievable. The depth, sharpness, and color accuracy of Concours is really great. Plus, it doesn't mute the flake to the degree that Souveran does.



Personally, I prefer the look of Zymol but lately the ease of use of Souveran has been leading me to using Souveran more and more.
 
Just judging on appearance alone, I'd have to give the nod to Concours as well as the majority of the Zymols. Mikeyc touched on one good point, to which I'd like to add. Zymol's real power isn't about gloss or a wet look. In fact, the first application or even two layers of the "EG" Concours will not produce an overwhelming amount of gloss. However, when its properly buffed, it will render IMO an incredibly sharp and vivid range of color and reflective quality in the finish. Pinnacle seemed to be a tad heavy and darker in its finish, but it also can produce competitive results. Concours will, after a few sessions, round off completely with incredible gloss and sheen, in addition to its reflective and color rendering qualities, that will rival the wettest looking lsps.



It will be better for you to try out each one with the same prep stages on a car, so as you can see for yourself the results that each one will produce.
 
Mikeyc said:
I have used both.



IME Souveran is a very good wax. It applies and removes like melted butter which is nice. As far as looks, it leaves the paint unbelievably wet looking the first couple of days or so and then fades a bit but still looks pretty wet. It gives a good amount of reflection, but the reflections are not terribly sharp or accurately reproduced. Plus, it tends to mute flake.



Zymol Concours is also a great wax. It's not as user friendly though. The bare handed application can sometimes be annoying and if you have rough hands it can be bad for the paint. Someone on here once mentioned they warm applicators in an old toaster oven instead of using their hands. Also, you need to make sure you buff off excess really well. I've had problems with streaking in the past because I didn't thoroughly buff the car. A little QD usually fixes up the problem, but in the mean time it almost looks like holograms. As far as looks, it doesn't leave the paint nearly as wet looking as Souveran. It's more of a warm look than a wet look. However, reflections are unbelievable. The depth, sharpness, and color accuracy of Concours is really great. Plus, it doesn't mute the flake to the degree that Souveran does.



Personally, I prefer the look of Zymol but lately the ease of use of Souveran has been leading me to using Souveran more and more.
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Big +1 on this, totally agree. I've been using more Swissvax Concorso since it looks similar to concours and is easier to use.
 
Souveran was overall the best looking wax I had in my collection of 25 or so waxes. It got bumped of the top when I added Glasur to my collection. It was my first Zymol wax and I expected it to look great. I wasn't expecting it to be my new #1.
 
lbls1 said:
Just judging on appearance alone, I'd have to give the nod to Concours as well as the majority of the Zymols. Mikeyc touched on one good point, to which I'd like to add. Zymol's real power isn't about gloss or a wet look. In fact, the first application or even two layers of the "EG" Concours will not produce an overwhelming amount of gloss. However, when its properly buffed, it will render IMO an incredibly sharp and vivid range of color and reflective quality in the finish. Pinnacle seemed to be a tad heavy and darker in its finish, but it also can produce competitive results. Concours will, after a few sessions, round off completely with incredible gloss and sheen, in addition to its reflective and color rendering qualities, that will rival the wettest looking lsps.



It will be better for you to try out each one with the same prep stages on a car, so as you can see for yourself the results that each one will produce.
Click to expand...

The reflections you get from Zymol are so accurately reproduced they're almost life like. It's really amazing.



Picus said:
Big +1 on this, totally agree. I've been using more Swissvax Concorso since it looks similar to concours and is easier to use.
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Interesting . . . so in terms of looks you would rank them:



1. Zymol

2. Swissvax

3. Souveran



In terms of ease of use you would rank them . . .



1. Souveran

2. Swissvax

3. Zymol



Very interesting indeed. If Swissvax has more of the Zymol look but more of the Souveran ease of use, I might have to try some out.
 
Mikeyc said:
The reflections you get from Zymol are so accurately reproduced they're almost life like. It's really amazing.







Interesting . . . so in terms of looks you would rank them:



1. Zymol

2. Swissvax

3. Souveran



In terms of ease of use you would rank them . . .



1. Souveran

2. Swissvax

3. Zymol



Very interesting indeed. If Swissvax has more of the Zymol look but more of the Souveran ease of use, I might have to try some out.
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Hmmm, kind of. I'd actually rank them like this:



Looks:



Concours = Concorso

Souveran



and ease of use:



Souveran

Concorso

Councours.



Let me explain the looks thing. Concorso and Concours actually look quite different; Concours is more dynamic in that it seems to make the paint shimmer. I actually find it intensifies reflections, but distorts them a bit (in a good way). The color representation is super accurate. Concorso is more wet, more "clearcoat an inch thick", it doesn't deepen as much but it reflects as well. I find it lasts a bit longer. Were they similarly easy to use I don't know which I would use more often, honestly. Since Concorso is so much easier to use I use it more often. I do still like Concours a lot though; you just have to be ready to use it. :)
 
Yup Mikeyc I was kind of holding back on my description with Concours. I've yet to see another non EGZ lsp parallel the sharpness and range of reflection and color that you can get from Concours. In all fairness, I've yet to try Swissvax (sp?) or Victoria.



But I do agree with you about the usage. As much as I rave about Zymol, it isn't practical for me to use it on my daily driver (although I could) given it has to get washed and waxed a lot, as well as my time constraints.
 
lbls1 said:
Yup Mikeyc I was kind of holding back on my description with Concours. I've yet to see another non EGZ lsp parallel the sharpness and range of reflection and color that you can get from Concours. In all fairness, I've yet to try Swissvax (sp?) or Victoria.



But I do agree with you about the usage. As much as I rave about Zymol, it isn't practical for me to use it on my daily driver (although I could) given it has to get washed and waxed a lot, as well as my time constraints.
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Victoria is amazing, and the owner David Wylie is extremely nice and will pick up the phone first ring every time I call.
 
I agree with what has been said. Sov is a good wax, howeer i find it is lacking somehow... just dosent do it for me.



Zymol concours however makes me a very happy boy. It is deap, wet, shiney, amazing...



I would definlty recomend using Zymol cocnours
 
Picus said:
Let me explain the looks thing. Concorso and Concours actually look quite different; Concours is more dynamic in that it seems to make the paint shimmer. I actually find it intensifies reflections, but distorts them a bit (in a good way). The color representation is super accurate. Concorso is more wet, more "clearcoat an inch thick", it doesn't deepen as much but it reflects as well...
Click to expand...



Thanks for posting that, *VERY* good job of describing stuff that's not always easy to verbalize :xyxthumbs
 
if hes not i am starting to be.



would anyone be interested in selling me a sample of zymol concours? would be nice if someone has extra they would like to sell instead of dropping an automatic 200 for the wax.
 
lbls1 said:
Convinced yet?
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Well, I'm convinced that an EG would be interesting to try...but as to whether I'd like it or not :nixweiss I'll keep thinking on it until the Jag comes home or I get the RX-7 ready.



I dunno though..I simply like how the Jag looks with Souveran over Autoglym SRP. "Better" might not be as appealing to me and the whole labor-intensiveness of the process really does put me off. Remember that I'm an Autopian Heretic with regard to enjoying this stuff ;)



If I had you here locally to do the S8 with Vintage, we'd both be happy; you could set me up on a regular, long-term schedule and I'd be happy to write the checks :D
 
Honestly re: ease of use/time required, I'd stick with Souveran on the Jag. Souveran is painfully easy to use, like 15 minutes for an entire car easy (as I am sure you know), that amount of time is easily doubled with Concorso, and tripled with Concours.
 
Accumulator said:
Well, I'm convinced that an EG would be interesting to try...but as to whether I'd like it or not :nixweiss I'll keep thinking on it until the Jag comes home or I get the RX-7 ready.



I dunno though..I simply like how the Jag looks with Souveran over Autoglym SRP. "Better" might not be as appealing to me and the whole labor-intensiveness of the process really does put me off. Remember that I'm an Autopian Heretic with regard to enjoying this stuff ;)



If I had you here locally to do the S8 with Vintage, we'd both be happy; you could set me up on a regular, long-term schedule and I'd be happy to write the checks :D
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Hmmmmm How'd about I just take the money pal........



lolllllllllll sorry I couldn't resist that one......you know we can get a good skit going with just a little imagination lollllll!!



Ok seriously, yes the EG's are labor intensive (I did a session last night after work......that's a pure sign of a wax nut.....I haven't cured that lick 100% yet. There was a reason for the madness though....something to do the next day, which btw didn't happen due to the weather). You would have to weigh how much you would be able to continually use a zymol, as well as how much you really like the looks of it. You would have to like the look w/out me being over your shoulder egging you on.



Don't worry...........one day you will.
 
themightytimmah- Yeah, I'd forgotten about the 50:50. With all the high end waxes out there now, I'm gonna follow threads like this with interest. SwissVax, Victoria, 50:50, Zymol EGs...there are a lot of options these days besides Souveran. Could be there's something I'd fall in love with.



Picus- Heh heh, between you and lbls1 I feel like the guy with an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other (nah, I won't say which is which ;) ).



As it is, I gotta say that it takes me a *lot* longer than 15 minutes to Souveran the Jag...I'm an absolute fanatic about that car; I spend that long doing the areas/brackets/etc. behind the bumpers.



And these days I don't even drive my good cars, it's all I can do to keep the dog-haulers and my wife's car clean :(



lbls1- Every time you say "labor intensive" I run and :hide:



And yeah, the "how often I'd use it" thing does make me wonder...18K miles on the Jag in 22 years...it doesn't need waxed very often ;)
 
Well it looks like the jag will have a lot of down time, so scratch time convenience off of your list.



You'll have to at least (once you do it...you will trust me) tell me what you think of it. You could I suppose, get around the time factor by doing sections of the car at a time, such as the front clip one day, rear quarters the next. I don't like doing a detail piecemeal however. You have to capture the entire car in one shot, and with equal dosages. To me, you're compromising the curing, aging and uniformity of the finish by breaking it up in to a couple of days just for wax. So what's the answer.............Grin and Bear It!!!!! bbbblollololllll!! Just wishing there was a way to get around the time thing with zymol, but so far I haven't (not without compromising the results).
 
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