Coatings vs. Standard LSP'S discussion

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Thomas Dekany said:
Are you a pro Detailer or what? I mean what you charge has nothing to do what I charge but let me assure you that I'm on the lower end - others charge more than I
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I've done 20 or 30 cars, so call it what you want. What's a pro? Someone who thinks they are or just has access to "secret" products?
 
Do you do this for a living? To me that is a pro, we pay taxes, pay insurance etc... Whether you have mad skills or not.

Whatt so do you do for a living?
 
boxingfan30 said:
I feel I do well at paint correction, but to call myself a pro isnt really the word I would use. I do all cars to the best I feel they can be done
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Hoped you knew I was just messing with you. The term professional has so many definitions depending upon the industry. Without some type of standards organization anyone can claim to be professional. There are professional YoYoers and professional Yodelers, they may have even made money doing it, my point is there probably good at it and call themselves professionals. Further, the fact that someone makes a living doing something doesn't mean they're good at it. Think about this for a minute, the guys that do the details at the dealerships, you know, the ones that everyone pokes fun at. They do this for a living (at least for the time being), they're professionals. Having said that, I'm sure your work is beyond professional. ;)
 
boxingfan30 said:
No, I do it on the side, its mainly for my own enjoyment.
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I've never seen your work so I don't know how good you are, but even if you do pro quality work but on the side you are still not a professional Detailer. Unless you do everything else a pro does. A volume shop Detailer maybe a hack, but still called a pro. Unfortunately

what do you do for a living ?
 
Wow $800 - $1000. I can buy a lot of Duragloss (sealant) for that kinda money even if I have to apply it two (or three) times a year.

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Edit: "A fool and his money are soon parted."
 
Thomas Dekany said:
I've never seen your work so I don't know how good you are, but even if you do pro quality work but on the side you are still not a professional Detailer. Unless you do everything else a pro does. A volume shop Detailer maybe a hack, but still called a pro. Unfortunately

what do you do for a living ?
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Why does it matter what I do for a living? What does that have to do with detailing.

I also could care less if I was considered a pro detailer, maybe if I put a cute little authorized detailer sig under my name that would make me a pro. Never did I claim to be a pro, nor could I care what you consider me. I consider you a lot of things, but your childish arrogance tops the list for me...and apparently for a lot of others here as well.
 
GearHead_1 said:
Hoped you knew I was just messing with you. The term professional has so many definitions depending upon the industry. Without some type of standards organization anyone can claim to be professional. There are professional YoYoers and professional Yodelers, they may have even made money doing it, my point is there probably good at it and call themselves professionals. Further, the fact that someone makes a living doing something doesn't mean they're good at it. Think about this for a minute, the guys that do the details at the dealerships, you know, the ones that everyone pokes fun at. They do this for a living (at least for the time being), they're professionals. Having said that, I'm sure your work is beyond professional. ;)
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Sure, I understand man, calling myself a professional would be putting myself a bit on a high horse and so I just choose to say that I do it for enjoyment. Humility is much more what I'd like to practice than giving myself a title.
 
Thought I'd throw this out there. Over the past several months I had a chance to detail 2 almost identical 2015 Ford Edge's, both are Platinum White. I used BlackFire products from begining to end with the exception of the clay and the IronX on both of them. Both were received still in the plastic from the dealer. One is my father's and one is mine, picked them up about a week apart. On one I used BlackFires Coating and it's Prep product. On the other one I used BlackFire's Crystal Seal. Both turned out great and are virtually indistinguishable from each other looks wise.

Washed both of these the past 2 days. 2 months into it and both are holding up well as you might expect. I can't tell one from the other in how they bead and both are slicker than snot on a door knob. These products were both a pleasure to use. Having been through this process I may actually like using the sealant a bit better. It's just too easy. Though it won't last as long as the coating you can literally put it on a prepped vehicle in less than 30 minutes. A little goes a long way and it's reasonably priced. I won't mind doing it more frequently because of its ease of use. I'm intersted to see how these look 2 months from now. I'd recommend either of these products to someone who is looking for simple. I've become a quite a fan of BF's products.
 
As far as prices go. I paid a pro 800 bucks to apply OC 2.0 on my vehicle in 2012. I supplied All the chemicals and polishes and had the car washed and iron x d before he arrived. The deal I made was he would tech me the basics of coating application. He taught me how to use the nano skin pad. How to break it in. He even showed me some tips with the polisher and tapeing.

It was a great day. I learned enough to coat my own cars after that.

He was with me working for 6 or 7 hours and then we went out for late lunch early dinner in me.

It was a great day and the price was cheap. In my area a 2 step with a coating is no less than 1200 if you go to a legit pro guy with a good rep , insurance and proper tools.
 
After reading through this whole thread I am reminded why I no longer frequent the forums; page after page with a lot of fluff and off topic.

Coatings have their place but I think they are over-sold. Too often the customers take it as a license to neglect the vehicle, thus the benefits are often mitigated. If the goal of a vehicle is to have optimal appearance then regular detailing with regular proper washing should be sufficient. A vehicle that is neglected and might be given a little extra attention once a year, at most, is probably not going to benefit from a coating as any washes are probably going to be improper as well. A daily driver that is wanted to be kept in the best possible condition and the effort will be put in to do so is a good candidate for a coating.

What you choose to use on your own car is one thing. For a fair analysis we must view it from a customer's perspective. Most detail customers do not always follow our recommendations for proper care. Even with a coating it can be expected that they will cause swirls, scratches and marring through washing, drying, and general carelessness. How many are going to be disappointed after 12 months?

When it comes to sealants, when the durability is x-y months and the customer waits until z months to return, does it really matter how long the durability of the sealant was? The car has been unprotected and likely needs additional work. The same is true for coatings. Tell them it will last UP TO 2 years and they will wait 3 years and wonder why their car doesn't look the way they want. Since the interior of the car will need periodic detailing anyway it shouldn't be a problem to do periodic polishing and apply a sealant.

I think many detailers push coatings due to the reality that many customers are "one and done" types. Many customers tell themselves they will maintain their car but we all know that that doesn't usually happen. Thus, the detailers want to maximize the sale. It really isn't different from so many other industries. When I managed a snowboard shop the owner got upset that I missed an opportunity for a sale when a woman came in looking for a particular brand we didn't carry. After explaining the pros and cons of the line and why we didn't carry it she said it was a gift and that the recipient requested it so I referred her to another shop that had what she was looking for. About 6 weeks later the woman returned and purchased 4 full packages for her family, about $600-$800 each, stating my honesty and the information I provided previously as her reason to trust that she was getting quality, appropriate equipment and not just what she could be sold. Moral: you can shear a sheep many times but only skin it once. If we, as detailers, are less than impressed with the performance of the coatings, just imagine what the customers are thinking. How long before we are viewed the same way the stealerships are for selling their snake oils?

The way some (not all) of the brands have played games with price increases, exclusivity, contracts/requirements and insufficient support has been more of a turnoff as well.
 
Nth Degree said:
After reading through this whole thread I am reminded why I no longer frequent the forums; page after page with a lot of fluff and off topic.

Coatings have their place but I think they are over-sold. Too often the customers take it as a license to neglect the vehicle, thus the benefits are often mitigated. If the goal of a vehicle is to have optimal appearance then regular detailing with regular proper washing should be sufficient. A vehicle that is neglected and might be given a little extra attention once a year, at most, is probably not going to benefit from a coating as any washes are probably going to be improper as well. A daily driver that is wanted to be kept in the best possible condition and the effort will be put in to do so is a good candidate for a coating.

What you choose to use on your own car is one thing. For a fair analysis we must view it from a customer's perspective. Most detail customers do not always follow our recommendations for proper care. Even with a coating it can be expected that they will cause swirls, scratches and marring through washing, drying, and general carelessness. How many are going to be disappointed after 12 months?

When it comes to sealants, when the durability is x-y months and the customer waits until z months to return, does it really matter how long the durability of the sealant was? The car has been unprotected and likely needs additional work. The same is true for coatings. Tell them it will last UP TO 2 years and they will wait 3 years and wonder why their car doesn't look the way they want. Since the interior of the car will need periodic detailing anyway it shouldn't be a problem to do periodic polishing and apply a sealant.

I think many detailers push coatings due to the reality that many customers are "one and done" types. Many customers tell themselves they will maintain their car but we all know that that doesn't usually happen. Thus, the detailers want to maximize the sale. It really isn't different from so many other industries. When I managed a snowboard shop the owner got upset that I missed an opportunity for a sale when a woman came in looking for a particular brand we didn't carry. After explaining the pros and cons of the line and why we didn't carry it she said it was a gift and that the recipient requested it so I referred her to another shop that had what she was looking for. About 6 weeks later the woman returned and purchased 4 full packages for her family, about $600-$800 each, stating my honesty and the information I provided previously as her reason to trust that she was getting quality, appropriate equipment and not just what she could be sold. Moral: you can shear a sheep many times but only skin it once. If we, as detailers, are less than impressed with the performance of the coatings, just imagine what the customers are thinking. How long before we are viewed the same way the stealerships are for selling their snake oils?

The way some (not all) of the brands have played games with price increases, exclusivity, contracts/requirements and insufficient support has been more of a turnoff as well.
Click to expand...

Great post!
 
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