Cleaning tires to remove browning and dirt

Setec Astronomy said:
This kind of came up in the thread of mine I linked before, and note what Swanic said in his post, as well as a recent thread about tire cleaners on AGO.

My question is whether what comes off when you "go back over it with Zep 505" is really coming off of the tire, as opposed to OUT of the tire.
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I guess that could be the case but what I am seeing is a brown film that is left behind that I can actually scratch or rub off. The ZEP seems to completely remove that brown film. It would seem to me that this "film" would impede a good bond for the tire dressing. I could be wrong- just my opinion.
 
bswombaugh said:
I guess that could be the case but what I am seeing is a brown film that is left behind that I can actually scratch or rub off. The ZEP seems to completely remove that brown film. It would seem to me that this "film" would impede a good bond for the tire dressing. I could be wrong- just my opinion.
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Certainly that film would interfere with your dressing (or could, I have some new winter tires that didn't want to lose the brown {actually before I switched to OPC for a cleaner} and they seemed to take/hold the dressing fine).

I guess I'm not understanding what you're saying--first you said " I can clean a tire with OPC and go back over it with ZEP 505 and get all kinds of gunk off." which sounds like the tire looked clean, but then you got more brown suds with the 505. Now you're saying "what I am seeing is a brown film that is left behind that I can actually scratch or rub off. The ZEP seems to completely remove that brown film."

If OPC left a brown film that the Zep removed, then obviously this is a good solution. If the tire looked clean, but a different chemical then pulled brown gunk from the tire, then I'm suggesting there is something chemically going on that might not be good for the tire.

Swanic posted about 5 qts. of oil being in a tire, I don't know about that, but there are certainly anti-ozonants added to the rubber compound, and I'm sure there are other additives in the rubber compound, and at least some of them are designed to migrate through the rubber to perform certain functions (and result in such things as "blooming"). Again, we're talking about chemical additives, and cleaning chemicals, and if through some interaction between the two, the intended migration of additives is slowed or accelerated or changed etc., that may not be in the best interests of the tire.

I'm with JSFM35X, I looked at the MSDS for that 505 a long time ago and decided I would skip it.
 
I like to clean with Adam's APC which I have found to be as effective as Tuf Shine



and then coat with the Turtle Wax Jet Black Endura Shine Tire Coating


From there it lasts 2-3 months and really only needs water to be cleaned.
 
ShaneB said:
Bleche wite works very well. And its really cheap too. It works better than any APC ive tried to clean tires with. I also have a bottle of tuff shine tire cleaner coming that I have high hopes for considering what I read from everyone else.

Are you looking for something just to clean them during a maintenance wash or something to get them spotlessly clean?
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I agree. It works very well. Cleans better than APC.

Goin Rogue said:
I use Meguiars Non-acid wheel and tire cleaner.
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This is also good. I have had good results even diluted 3:1 on tires that are maintained very well.

SYMAWD said:
I like to clean with Adam's APC which I have found to be as effective as Tiuf Shine and then coat with the Turtle Wax Jet Black Endura Shine Tire Coating

From there it lasts 2-3 months and really only needs water to be cleaned.
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I was not a fan of Adams as a tire cleaner. Never really worked that well for me.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Certainly that film would interfere with your dressing (or could, I have some new winter tires that didn't want to lose the brown {actually before I switched to OPC for a cleaner} and they seemed to take/hold the dressing fine).

I guess I'm not understanding what you're saying--first you said " I can clean a tire with OPC and go back over it with ZEP 505 and get all kinds of gunk off." which sounds like the tire looked clean, but then you got more brown suds with the 505. Now you're saying "what I am seeing is a brown film that is left behind that I can actually scratch or rub off. The ZEP seems to completely remove that brown film."

If OPC left a brown film that the Zep removed, then obviously this is a good solution. If the tire looked clean, but a different chemical then pulled brown gunk from the tire, then I'm suggesting there is something chemically going on that might not be good for the tire.

Swanic posted about 5 qts. of oil being in a tire, I don't know about that, but there are certainly anti-ozonants added to the rubber compound, and I'm sure there are other additives in the rubber compound, and at least some of them are designed to migrate through the rubber to perform certain functions (and result in such things as "blooming"). Again, we're talking about chemical additives, and cleaning chemicals, and if through some interaction between the two, the intended migration of additives is slowed or accelerated or changed etc., that may not be in the best interests of the tire.

I'm with JSFM35X, I looked at the MSDS for that 505 a long time ago and decided I would skip it.
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I am sorry I guess my statement may have been was a little confusing. The extra "gunk" that I was referring to was the browning on the tire. I am sure the OPC had cleaned all the surface dirt and contaminents off but the tire still didn't look clean and really black. I could not seem to remove this brown film even with multiple cleanings with OPC. The suds that I was getting with the OPC were showing white as if the tire was completely clean. I could immediately follow with the 505 and the suds were a dingy brown indicating that it was removing that nasty film. I still would like to know if the ingredients in the 505 are any more "nasty or dangerous" than the other dedicated tire and wheel cleaners on the market.
 
Goin Rogue said:
I use Meguiars Non-acid wheel and tire cleaner.
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I think I use the same thing: Megs All Wheel and Tire Cleaner. It takes very little, comes out in a foam that sticks to the wheel and tire and all I have to use to scrub the tire/wheel with is an old wash mitt, no brushes needed ... unless perhaps the tire is also really muddy/covered in dirt. It leaves the tires so clean that most of the time I don't even dress them, they look that good bare.
 
Hey guys, I think I need to apologize here-I just goggled the MSDS sheet to answer this question and I either looked at the wrong zep produst or clicked on the wrong link or perhaps a different MSDS came up.

Looks like the Sodium Metacilicate is NOT part of the formulation.

I need to see why it came up on my home computer search tonight?

So far I found 3 different formulas, each with its own MSDS. Looks like formula revisions.

Fast 505 Cleaner & Degreaser - Details

http://images.zepcommercial.com/eng...-Cleaner-and-Degreaser-English-MSDS-ZU505.pdf

http://www.mycleanlikeapro.com/file...eaner-and-Degreaser-English-MSDS-ZUCSPP32.pdf


bswombaugh said:
I am sorry I guess my statement may have been was a little confusing. The extra "gunk" that I was referring to was the browning on the tire. I am sure the OPC had cleaned all the surface dirt and contaminents off but the tire still didn't look clean and really black. I could not seem to remove this brown film even with multiple cleanings with OPC. The suds that I was getting with the OPC were showing white as if the tire was completely clean. I could immediately follow with the 505 and the suds were a dingy brown indicating that it was removing that nasty film. I still would like to know if the ingredients in the 505 are any more "nasty or dangerous" than the other dedicated tire and wheel cleaners on the market.
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JSFM35X said:
Hey guys, I think I need to apologize here-I just goggled the MSDS sheet to answer this question and I either looked at the wrong zep produst or clicked on the wrong link or perhaps a different MSDS came up.

Looks like the Sodium Metacilicate is NOT part of the formulation.

I need to see why it came up onmy home computer search tonight?

So far I found 3 different formulas, each with its own MSDS. Looks like formula revisions.

Fast 505 Cleaner & Degreaser - Details

http://images.zepcommercial.com/eng...-Cleaner-and-Degreaser-English-MSDS-ZU505.pdf

http://www.mycleanlikeapro.com/file...eaner-and-Degreaser-English-MSDS-ZUCSPP32.pdf
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If you look at this page: Fast 505 Cleaner & Degreaser - Details the MSDS linked there shows only sodium dodecylbenzenesolfonate , but the "back label" ingredients include Alkybenzene Sulfonic Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Hydroxide, Ethoxylated Alcohol, Dippropylene Glycol Propyl Ether, Dipropylene Glycol Propyl Ether, Dipropylene Glycol Butyl Ether, Butoxydiglycol, Sodium Metasilicate, Benzene, Butoxyethanol. Certainly plenty of floor stripper ingredients, but as you noted it's unclear what the current formula is.

I have seen sodium metasilicate used in other tire cleaners, I don't associate that with floor strippers the way I do with the glycol ethers and butyl compounds.
 
Butyl is old school

Sodium Metacilicate is stronger strippers

The Glycol are more modern day products.

Setec Astronomy said:
If you look at this page: Fast 505 Cleaner & Degreaser - Details the MSDS linked there shows only sodium dodecylbenzenesolfonate , but the "back label" ingredients include Alkybenzene Sulfonic Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Hydroxide, Ethoxylated Alcohol, Dippropylene Glycol Propyl Ether, Dipropylene Glycol Propyl Ether, Dipropylene Glycol Butyl Ether, Butoxydiglycol, Sodium Metasilicate, Benzene, Butoxyethanol. Certainly plenty of floor stripper ingredients, but as you noted it's unclear what the current formula is.

I have seen sodium metasilicate used in other tire cleaners, I don't associate that with floor strippers the way I do with the glycol ethers and butyl compounds.
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Setec Astronomy said:
I have seen sodium metasilicate used in other tire cleaners, I don't associate that with floor strippers the way I do with the glycol ethers and butyl compounds.
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For reference, Adam's APC contains sodium metasilicate, so I guess that is why I get good results cleaning tires with it. Do we know what Tuf Shine contains?
 
SYMAWD said:
For reference, Adam's APC contains sodium metasilicate, so I guess that is why I get good results cleaning tires with it. Do we know what Tuf Shine contains?
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I don't remember anyone ever getting a Tuf Shine MSDS. Most of the tire cleaners seem to be caustics which are going to have something like sodium metasilicate in them, but I just looked at an EO A2Z MSDS thru the Advanced Auto Parts website and it's got a number of other active ingredients, including several sodium salts.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
That's the solvent stuff? What does that seem to be, some sort of odorless mineral spirits or something else?
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Yeah, "solvent stuff" as opposed to their normal Rubber Cleaner.

Heh heh, gotta admit that I have *NO IDEA* what it might be or even what I could compare it to, but that "odorless Mineral Spirits" isn't a bad describption. Seems a bit thicker than MS though, but eh...I've never really paid attention to its characteristics. Certainly does flash off cleanly though, never any issues putting Trim Sealant on after it.
 
Accumulator said:
Yeah, "solvent stuff" as opposed to their normal Rubber Cleaner.

Heh heh, gotta admit that I have *NO IDEA* what it might be or even what I could compare it to, but that "odorless Mineral Spirits" isn't a bad describption. Seems a bit thicker than MS though, but eh...I've never really paid attention to its characteristics. Certainly does flash off cleanly though, never any issues putting Trim Sealant on after it.
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I guess I've been turned off to solvent-based tire cleaners since I finally got around to using my old Tropicare Non-Silicone Dressing (remember that?) which is similar to Tuf Shine, but they used a solvent cleaner which has a citrus smell and I presume is d-limonene based. I used it on my friend Jr's winter tires, and it's years later and they still smell like the cleaner, which worries me a bit. I've since relegated the remaining cleaner to tar-removal duty.
 
Setec Astronomy- Huh, that Tropicare somehow slipped under my radar.

The Rubber Prep does *not* have any residual odor, none that I recall when in use either, so it must not've been anything significant.
 
Accumulator said:
Setec Astronomy- Huh, that Tropicare somehow slipped under my radar.
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Eh, it was 10 years ago or something. They are long gone. When I first used the dressing I didn't get the tires clean enough, and it didn't work, so I shelved it. With all the Tuf Shine publicity, I was reminded of it and did a better cleaning job and used it with some fair success on those winter tires.
 
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