Claying a new car

Jesstzn

Jesstzn

New member
People always ask " My car is new .. should I clay it? It looks really good"



Well I just picked up a 2013 that was received at the dealer 3days ago and built less than a month ago. It looked great and was mar free even in full sun. Well the hands can feel what the eyes can't see and a quick feel said clay bar time. I made a point of not kneeding the bar just to show what I was picking up. I wasn't worried about the clay marring as the contaminants were very fine and I intended on polishing lightly with HD Polish and an orange pad anyway. What you see is from the hood, roof and trunk lid. The vertical surfaces showed about 1/2 as much. Because the clear is porous if I wouldn't have clayed I may have been permanently sealing some of this into the surface. The car was washed at the dealer Tuesday and by me yesterday prior to claying. Clay I used was Recardo.











Sorry for the crappy car pix .. was taken with my ipad in bad light.
 
ABC it and get all the acids and such that got deep, under the surface gone.

Clay has it's use but doesn't do a thing for the really damaging enviormental contaminates.
 


Detailer's clay removes paint surface contaminants i.e. it abrades the top section of an iron particle, leaving what is below the paint surface to remain. Once water and heat (reactivity) is added the below surface particulates act as a conduit and the corrosion process is started.



Automotive paint systems are porous; when you add water and heat to an acidic substance it will erode the paint system very quickly (the heat opens microscopic fissures in the clear coat allowing ingress, the water provides a carrier system for the acid, and heat acts as a catalyst each time water is reintroduced the acid will be reactivated). The paint surface should be periodically neutralized / decontaminated, dependent upon environmental conditions encountered
 
TOGWT said:


Detailer's clay removes paint surface contaminants i.e. it abrades the top section of an iron particle, leaving what is below the paint surface to remain.
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I'm still having a hard time believing something as soft as clay can cut ( abrade ) something as hard as an iron filing in half. Also take into consideration, and I doubt this has been properly considered. From my point of view, the shearing concept ignores the necessity that the iron particle must thus be 'broken'. Now iron oxides are not ceramics but they are not soft like marshmallows! The suggestion that they are sheared off strongly implies that the strength of the iron particle embedded in the paint is less than the bond of the particle to the bodywork. Something to think about .....
 
Jesstzn said:
I'm still having a hard time believing something as soft as clay can cut ( abrade ) something as hard as an iron filing in half. Also take into consideration, and I doubt this has been properly considered. From my point of view, the shearing concept ignores the necessity that the iron particle must thus be 'broken'. Now iron oxides are not ceramics but they are not soft like marshmallows! The suggestion that they are sheared off strongly implies that the strength of the iron particle embedded in the paint is less than the bond of the particle to the bodywork. Something to think about .....
Click to expand...



I know some prescribe to the myth that clay removes particulates by ‘pulling’ them from the surface.

If this was factual why would it need to be available in various grades of abrasive?
 
TOGWT said:
I know some prescribe to the myth that clay removes particulates by ‘pulling’ them from the surface.

If this was factual why would it need to be available in various grades of abrasive?
Click to expand...
To also shear off the stuff like tar etc that is stuck on the surface not imbedded in it .. everyone knows mild clay isn't great with tar. Are we even sure that more abrasive clay serves any more of a purpose that to remove the iron oxide stain faster? Some also prescribe to the myth a piece of clay the consistency of silly putty shears off a piece of metal.



So here we have it .. 2 myths .. I have yet to see a clay manufacturer ( not distributor ) chime in with technical proof of how it actually works. Something doesn't become a myth just because someone doesn't agree with a theory that is unsubstantiated.
 
Detailer’s clay was originally formulated to remove paint over-spray; it is also useful for removing surface contaminants that have bonded to the paint surface. It gained its reputation as a decontamination method because it was mistakenly believed that it ‘pulled’ brake / rail dust iron particulates from the paint surface. Detailer’s clay contains abrasives that will only shear any brake dust particles leaving what is below the paint surface to remain. Once water and heat (reactivity) is added the corrosion process is started.



[I have yet to see a clay manufacturer ( not distributor ) chime in with technical proof of how it actually works]



It would all depend on how through you are when doing your research .



The primary detailing clay patent (U.S. Patent No. 5,727,993) identifies three unique elements (claim 57) used in concert:

“A method of polishing a protrusion or stain from a surface comprising; applying a plastic flexible tool to the surface, the plastic flexible tool comprising a plastic flexible material having mixed therewith an abrasive comprising grains from about 3 to 50 m in diameter and; applying a force to the plastic flexible tool such that a polishing force per area is applied by the plastic flexible tool to a protrusion or stain on the surface, and such that the amount of force per area applied to the surface is less than the amount of force per area applied to the protrusion or stain.”



[I'm still having a hard time believing something as soft as clay can cut ( abrade ) something as hard as an iron filing in half.]

[Now iron oxides are not ceramics but they are not soft like marshmallows!]



A relatively 'soft' foam pad and an abrasive polish can remove PPG's CeramiClear coating and that is a ceramic



[Something to think about ...] indeed
 
TOGWT said:
Detailer’s clay was originally formulated to remove paint over-spray; it is also useful for removing surface contaminants that have bonded to the paint surface. It gained its reputation as a decontamination method because it was mistakenly believed that it ‘pulled’ brake / rail dust iron particulates from the paint surface. Detailer’s clay contains abrasives that will only shear any brake dust particles leaving what is below the paint surface to remain. Once water and heat (reactivity) is added the corrosion process is started.



[I have yet to see a clay manufacturer ( not distributor ) chime in with technical proof of how it actually works]



It would all depend on how through you are when doing your research .



The primary detailing clay patent (U.S. Patent No. 5,727,993) identifies three unique elements (claim 57) used in concert:

“A method of polishing a protrusion or stain from a surface comprising; applying a plastic flexible tool to the surface, the plastic flexible tool comprising a plastic flexible material having mixed therewith an abrasive comprising grains from about 3 to 50 m in diameter and; applying a force to the plastic flexible tool such that a polishing force per area is applied by the plastic flexible tool to a protrusion or stain on the surface, and such that the amount of force per area applied to the surface is less than the amount of force per area applied to the protrusion or stain.”



[I'm still having a hard time believing something as soft as clay can cut ( abrade ) something as hard as an iron filing in half.]

[Now iron oxides are not ceramics but they are not soft like marshmallows!]



A relatively 'soft' foam pad and an abrasive polish can remove PPG's CeramiClear coating and that is a ceramic



[Something to think about ...] indeed
Click to expand...



The patent tells me nothing .. all a patent does is apply and protect a theory from someone else calling it proprietary .. doesn't mean it works the way it says . Originally you said clay was developed to remove paint over spray .. is over spray "on" the paint or imbedded "in" the paint? I think its on the paint .. or is that a myth?





Sure A foam pad and polish can remove CeramiClear .. "but is it shearing it off as your describing clay does to an iron filing.. no" ... is CeramiClear imbedded in the paint or is it applied on the paint?
 
I know this is your thread and all, but since it talks about clay and you know what your talking about, clay doesn't really remove tree sap right? I just clayed a car and could NOT get the sap out. Or maybe I just stink at claying. :/
 
AquaHawk said:
I know this is your thread and all, but since it talks about clay and you know what your talking about, clay doesn't really remove tree sap right? I just clayed a car and could NOT get the sap out. Or maybe I just stink at claying. :/
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Usually in my experience clay isn't good at a few things .. one being tar that's been on a while and the another is certain types of sap. Depending on the sap I have good luck with IPA or in some cases turpentine.
 
Clay will remove many types of paint over spray, that said, not in all cases, due to a couple of things.

1. What was the solvent system of the paint, and is it an "epoxy" paint?

2. How much of the hydrocarbon solvent was still "active/wet" in the over spray particles when they landed on the vehicle? (was it possible for them to melt into the surface?)

3. What was the skin temperature of the vehicle on which they landed? Higher temps mean that the solvent is evaporating quickly and can not melt the carried paint particle into the vehicles paint.



In many cases, where automotive or epoxy over spray is involved and the some of the above are considered, the still active solvents will do their job and "de-solve/melt" the clear or single stage paint of the vehicle on which they land.



The over spray becomes part of the vehicle's paint system, bonds down into it, which is often shown on removable, as there are "pit's" where it bonded.

 
With your in-depth knowledge of detailing you should be teaching us - and I know you don't usually catch it -but yes that's sarcasm
 
You're right of course - clay pulls ferrous metal from a paint surface [sarcasm :(
 
Jesstzn said:
Usually in my experience clay isn't good at a few things .. one being tar that's been on a while and the another is certain types of sap. Depending on the sap I have good luck with IPA or in some cases turpentine.
Click to expand...



Won't clay pull sap from a paint surface?
 
Jesstzn said:
The patent tells me nothing .. all a patent does is apply and protect a theory from someone else calling it proprietary .. doesn't mean it works the way it says . Originally you said clay was developed to remove paint over spray .. is over spray "on" the paint or imbedded "in" the paint? I think its on the paint .. or is that a myth?





Sure A foam pad and polish can remove CeramiClear .. "but is it shearing it off as your describing clay does to an iron filing.. no" ... is CeramiClear imbedded in the paint or is it applied on the paint?
Click to expand...



Shame on me, at my age I should realize by now some people don't want to learn. I shouldn't waste my time with explanations: some people only hear what they want to hear.
 
You haven't given an explanation .... Does the polish/pad combination "shear off " CeramiClear? Your the one that gave the example not me. This is a typical response you supply when you don't have a logical and legitimate answer . All I am using is logic to ask for an explanation of how something that is soft ,even if it carries abrasives , can shear of something as hard as an iron filing. Shearing is a mechanical action , eg cutting with a single stroke as opposed to abrading which is to wear down or rub away by friction.
 
Jesstzn said:
You haven't given an explanation .... Does the polish/pad combination "shear off " CeramiClear? Your the one that gave the example not me. This is a typical response you supply when you don't have a logical and legitimate answer . All I am using is logic to ask for an explanation of how something that is soft ,even if it carries abrasives , can shear of something as hard as an iron filing. Shearing is a mechanical action , eg cutting with a single stroke as opposed to abrading which is to wear down or rub away by friction.
Click to expand...





I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you
 
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