clay vs cleaner
- Thread starter Ern
- Start date
vdubbya
Rochester Auto Spa
A cleaner wax just doesn't have the to capabilities to remove all embedded contaminents like clay.
I always clay and then follow with a cleaner before polishing.
Just good habit! I don't really know!
I always clay and then follow with a cleaner before polishing.
Just good habit! I don't really know!
brwill2005
New member
Just remember clay is an abrasive. It should not be used everytime you wax your car. Others will definitely disagree, but I think it is a bit overused. It functions extremely well as an overspray remover and for removing environmental fall out.
You can demonstrate the difference for yourself, that would speak volumes more than what we can put in words. It happens everytime I show how clay works to someone in person. First, wash your car. Do whatever you want on one panel; polish, wax, cleaner wax, whatever. Then take half of that panel and go over it with clay. Very lightly drag your fingers over the paint on the clayed vs the non-clayed sections and you'll feel the difference for yourself.
And yes, I know clay should be used before wax, I'm just saying you can use this as a demonstration to see how much of a difference it can make.
And yes, I know clay should be used before wax, I'm just saying you can use this as a demonstration to see how much of a difference it can make.
Ern said:
Well, a clay is designed to pull contaminants from your paint. A cleaner wax, at least most, are designed to deal with very minor imperfections and add a level of protection to your paint. If you meant a pre-wax cleaner, most do the same thing as a cleaner wax just without the protection.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
brwill2005 said:
I guess I'll be the one that disagrees with this. I've spoke to a few of the higher ups at Auto Magic and they claim that their Blue Clay Magic won't remove LSP's and can be used as much as you'd like without harming the finish. For years I've been claying vehicles during regular washings without waxing/polishing and haven't noticed anything strange.
According to Clay Magic's web-site:
Clay Magic® is a deep cleaning and smoothing clay bar that instantly removes harmful pollutants from today's vehicle finishes without using strong, acidic chemicals or harsh abrasives. Use it every time you wash or wax.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
rkf76 said:
In a nutshell, it pulls embedded contaminants from the paint with every stroke you make. The lubricant that's sprayed on the paint acts as a buffer to allow the clay to slide across the surface.
brwill2005
New member
Of course the executives at Auto Magic are going to say it does not remove LSP's. I would not be in their best interests to say it does. The reason clay is so overused is because of the marketing of companies such as Auto Magic.
David Fermani
Forza Auto Salon
brwill2005 said:
Don't you think their would be negative repercusions if they lied? It would actually be in their best interest to say it does remove wax so people buy more of their more profitable products - wax. How is clay "overused"? Don't you think clay is a viable solution to regular car maintenence like washing and waxing? Or is waxing overused too?
Sonus pretty much sums it up:
It's a huge misconception that clay "pulls out" contaminants when it actually acts like sand paper and smooths them out, or in this case "micropolishes" them. I don't think it's just a coincidence that the claying process is identical to the wetsanding process. Rub an abrasive material back and forth over the surface while using a liquid as a sort of lube.
It's a huge misconception that clay "pulls out" contaminants when it actually acts like sand paper and smooths them out, or in this case "micropolishes" them. I don't think it's just a coincidence that the claying process is identical to the wetsanding process. Rub an abrasive material back and forth over the surface while using a liquid as a sort of lube.
If it's like wetsanding, then how would the surface be nearly identical before/after claying? Also, wetsanding is "wet" because you want to keep the sandpaper free of the material you are sanding so that it does not clog up since it is such a fine cut...it's not really to "lubricate" the contact area. If you try using high-grit paper when it's dry, you'll just go through a LOT of paper because it gets clogged up quickly without the water to rinse it.
When clay is used, it is usually colored slightly brown with contamination, regardless of vehicle finish color. The clay does not build up heat, only takes a couple passes which are independent of a speed requirement, and is lubricated liberally...I just don't see any polishing qualities in the process.
I'm not trying to start an argument, or sound like I am some authority on detailing because I'm definitely not...these are just my observations. I always thought the purpose of clay in the first place was to remove embedded contaminates without abrading the surface.
I believe the different grades are made for various contamination particle sizes, which is why the heavy duty ones are recommended to more adept users. They will pull larger contaminants from the surface, which will be stuck in the clay, perhaps not pulled completely into the clay...the contaminates themselves will act as abrasives when sliding the contaminated clay over the surface.
-John
When clay is used, it is usually colored slightly brown with contamination, regardless of vehicle finish color. The clay does not build up heat, only takes a couple passes which are independent of a speed requirement, and is lubricated liberally...I just don't see any polishing qualities in the process.
I'm not trying to start an argument, or sound like I am some authority on detailing because I'm definitely not...these are just my observations. I always thought the purpose of clay in the first place was to remove embedded contaminates without abrading the surface.
I believe the different grades are made for various contamination particle sizes, which is why the heavy duty ones are recommended to more adept users. They will pull larger contaminants from the surface, which will be stuck in the clay, perhaps not pulled completely into the clay...the contaminates themselves will act as abrasives when sliding the contaminated clay over the surface.
-John
brwill2005
New member
I think clay is best used when the paint has overspray or some other type of environmental contaminant. IMO, there is no reason to clay each and every time you wax your car.
jfelbab
New member
Clay and paint cleaners are two different tools for two different conditions.
Clay catches and pulls bonded contaminant from the paint surface.
Paint cleaners extract dirt and stains from the paint's surface and it's pores and OP dimples. Areas that the clay never gets close to.
Clay does not grab anything that is smooth and at the paints level like discoloration and stains. It only grabs the grunge that sits on top the paint, like overspray, sap, etc. Areas that are stained, dirty, but smooth don't get corrected with clay.
There are basically two types of paint cleaners, chemical and abrasive. Chemical cleaners remove stains and embedded soil that clay wont touch. Abrasive cleaners will do this also but they will remove swirls as well as they burnish the paint and remove some of it in the process.
In my experience clay will usually not remove all of my wax and even less of my sealants.
Try this test.
Take a look at an older neglected white car. You will see that the white is usually yellowed and has lots of surface contaminants. Rub your hand over the paint and you will feel the above surface bonded contaminants. Clay the paint and then after you feel the paint is smooth go over a small area with a paint cleaner and you will see the yellow tinge disappear and the original white paint reappear. This same thing happens on other colors as well but white just makes this test more obvious.
Basically clay cleans contaminants bonded to the paint, above the paint surface and paint cleaners will remove dirt and stains that are at or below the paint surface.
Clay catches and pulls bonded contaminant from the paint surface.
Paint cleaners extract dirt and stains from the paint's surface and it's pores and OP dimples. Areas that the clay never gets close to.
Clay does not grab anything that is smooth and at the paints level like discoloration and stains. It only grabs the grunge that sits on top the paint, like overspray, sap, etc. Areas that are stained, dirty, but smooth don't get corrected with clay.
There are basically two types of paint cleaners, chemical and abrasive. Chemical cleaners remove stains and embedded soil that clay wont touch. Abrasive cleaners will do this also but they will remove swirls as well as they burnish the paint and remove some of it in the process.
In my experience clay will usually not remove all of my wax and even less of my sealants.
Try this test.
Take a look at an older neglected white car. You will see that the white is usually yellowed and has lots of surface contaminants. Rub your hand over the paint and you will feel the above surface bonded contaminants. Clay the paint and then after you feel the paint is smooth go over a small area with a paint cleaner and you will see the yellow tinge disappear and the original white paint reappear. This same thing happens on other colors as well but white just makes this test more obvious.
Basically clay cleans contaminants bonded to the paint, above the paint surface and paint cleaners will remove dirt and stains that are at or below the paint surface.