Clay Bar Tips

Postwood, Lynn, :bounce , if the directions on your favorite sealant said to apply two layers or dont use this product, or use only with our foam applicator would you follow it ? You guys need to try whatever it is your concience allows for cryin out loud!!

Now, IMO (and i have many as you can tell, ahemmm, Postwood) water/clay will remove more contaminants, than soap/water, or a qd....I tried soap and water Saturday on a 00 Expedition ( I never, ever want to see another Ford Expedition), Boy did it go smooth, and fast !! probably cuz the clay slid everywhere ! Im tellin you guys, you need some resistance with clay, It shouldnt slide until your done !

Marty (The horns come out), back to your brilliant question! I usually have the hoze more or less at a trickel, and I do it during my final rinse. I rinse any soap and remaining floating dirt particles, then turn the water down to a trickle. Run the water over the area your going to clay. I put the clay in my palm, and lay my hand flat, that way as Im claying, the rest of my hand spreads the water around before the clay gets to an unlubed area. (Horns now retracting)
 
a.k.a. Patrick said:
Postwood, Lynn, :bounce , if the directions on your favorite sealant said to apply two layers or dont use this product, or use only with our foam applicator would you follow it ? You guys need to try whatever it is your concience allows for cryin out loud!!

Now, IMO (and i have many as you can tell, ahemmm, Postwood) water/clay will remove more contaminants, than soap/water, or a qd....I tried soap and water Saturday on a 00 Expedition ( I never, ever want to see another Ford Expedition), Boy did it go smooth, and fast !! probably cuz the clay slid everywhere ! Im tellin you guys, you need some resistance with clay, It shouldnt slide until your done !

Marty (The horns come out), back to your brilliant question! I usually have the hoze more or less at a trickel, and I do it during my final rinse. I rinse any soap and remaining floating dirt particles, then turn the water down to a trickle. Run the water over the area your going to clay. I put the clay in my palm, and lay my hand flat, that way as Im claying, the rest of my hand spreads the water around before the clay gets to an unlubed area. (Horns now retracting)
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Whoa! Easy big fella!! Patrick = :angry :p

Im intigued by your methodology, but what would you recommend I do being such that I cant use a hose and would like to try the PCM (pat clay method)?? Would a spray bottle with water suffice??
 
Brendon, i dont see why that wouldn't work !!

Geeeez you make it sound like im yelling ! Im just saying, we all shouldnt have such closed minds !
 
a.k.a. Patrick said:
Postwood, Lynn, :bounce , if the directions on your favorite sealant said to apply two layers or dont use this product, or use only with our foam applicator would you follow it ?
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Eh, different strokes for different folks.



As for following directions, that reminds me of the day I shampooed my hair all day. That "lather, rinse, repeat" loop had me going. I was so glad to finally run out of that stuff. My skin was sooooo wrinkled. :D
 
All i can say is wow.



I've found that it doesn't really matter what you use as lube. Not matter what you use, youre still removing contanimants regardless.
 
a.k.a. Patrick said:
Postwood, Lynn, :bounce , if the directions on your favorite sealant said to apply two layers or dont use this product, or use only with our foam applicator would you follow it ? You guys need to try whatever it is your concience allows for cryin out loud!!

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The first time I clayed, I used their lube because the directions said to use their lube. The 2nd time I clayed, I used a lube because I saw the great results.

If you feel comfortable using just plain water with clay, more power to ya. But I sense that a lubricant makes the clay work more gently -- avoiding the risk of scratches -- and nobody's gonna persuade me otherwise. Yeah, call me close-minded if you want to. :D
 
Lynn said:
The first time I clayed, I used their lube because the directions said to use their lube. The 2nd time I clayed, I used a lube because I saw the great results.

If you feel comfortable using just plain water with clay, more power to ya. But I sense that a lubricant makes the clay work more gently -- avoiding the risk of scratches -- and nobody's gonna persuade me otherwise. Yeah, call me close-minded if you want to. :D
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Hi,



I've completed a number of clay tests and two of these focussed on the abrasive qualities of consumer "detail clay" using both the recommended QD and water as a lube. The side by side testing was performed on CD surfaces which I felt are easily marred and would easily magnify the scratching I wished to compare. I understand this is not real application testing but it does offer some insight into abrasive qualities of clay using each lubricant.



Using the manufacturer recommended QD as lube offered no visible reduction in surface scratches over using water, with quite possibly a very very slight edge going to the water. For all intents and purposes I'll call it a draw.



The only obvious differences I could note between water or QD was that the "detail clay" had a greater propensity to smear when it was stopped on the cd surface (ie. whenever the strokes changed direction) when water was used as lube. It would appear the QD has less surface tension and a greater force of adhesion which allows relatively more even surface coverage. The water on the other hand tends to bead and not stick to the Cd surface which gives a less even coverage. (also noted when applying QD and water to the cd and tipping it up to allow liquids to run off, no trace of water was left behind while a film a QD remained on the surface.



The slight occassional smearing when using water as lube only occurred when the clay was stopped (changed direction) in areas where there was visibly less water lubricant, tests using ample quanities of water showed no additional smearing. Strangely enough when the smear residue was removed I didn't notice any additional scratching.



I further tested to see if the smearing was due to the water somehow breaking down the clay. Soaking samples of clay in water and QD lube and then testing for smearing at intervals of 2 hrs, 4hr, and 48 hrs showed no additional smearing over fresh unlubricated clay nor did the texture or consistancy change. The clay is not soluable in water or QD. Further testing showed that increased heat is the factor which will increase the occurrance of smearing.



This is just my opinion and YMMV.
 
Hugh2- Good post. While I'm a "slippery lube for claying" adherent (at least for the time being), I wanted to give you a big :xyxthumbs for your testing/reporting on the water vs. lube issue. Well thought-out, well done. Though I can't help but wonder why a slippery lube wouldn't, well, *lubricate* better than water, and thus reduce marring :confused:



FWIW, I did recently try claying a small area using only water as lube (Autopia Block clay). The clay seemed to really stick to the surface and I couldn't bring myself to keep trying it that way. Perhaps it was poor technique on my part, never having tried it that way before :nixweiss
 
Accumulator said:
Hugh2- Good post. While I'm a "slippery lube for claying" adherent (at least for the time being), I wanted to give you a big :xyxthumbs for your testing/reporting on the water vs. lube issue. Well thought-out, well done. Though I can't help but wonder why a slippery lube wouldn't, well, *lubricate* better than water, and thus reduce marring :confused:



FWIW, I did recently try claying a small area using only water as lube (Autopia Block clay). The clay seemed to really stick to the surface and I couldn't bring myself to keep trying it that way. Perhaps it was poor technique on my part, never having tried it that way before :nixweiss
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Hi,



I'm puzzled as well for why the test results appear contractictory.

Either my testing is wrong though the results are repeatable (I just completed 2 more tests and aside from the smearing I still see virtually no difference in scratches), or there's something at play with surface tension, adherance, lubricity, threshold, that I don't understand.



It's quite possible microscopic surface analysis or a glossmeter would tell a different story but from a un-aided visual perspective the scratch results are virtually identical to me.



I, like you, also notice a gripping nature of the clay/water and it's during the grip/momentary stop when the smears will generally occur. I also note that the clay/water gives me more feel for what is happening on the surface and I prefer this, similar to how different vehcile suspension/steering setups offer varying degrees of road feedback.



Interestingly enough I also subjected Elmers-tac clay (white) to many side by side CD tests with the "detail clay" and found that on CD's this clay produced considerably less scratches when using either QD or water and a lubricant. A side benefit of this clay was that it did not smear when used with water. So I feel the Elmers clay is less abrasive than the "detail clay" I compared it to and also has far less propensity to smear.



How all this translates to a better performing clay for removing contanimants from vehicle finishes and leaving a smooth uncorrupted finish is open to translation and or further testing.
 
Hugh2- Interesting about the Elmer's.



I can certainly understand how you might prefer the "feel" with water as opposed to with lube. As with the car suspension analogy, to each their own.



Heh heh, just because we can't *explain* the results of a test, that doesn't mean the test is flawed. One thing to consider, though- an automotive panel, especially one *in need of claying*, is different from a relatively clean CD in a number of respects. E.g., the contamination (which is gonna get moved across the surface to some degree no matter how often you knead/replace the clay) could be a *very* significant variable all by itself.
 
Hi all. This is my 1st post! BTW, I have learned some much in this forum. Thanks to many of you.

Back to claying, I just clayed my white Subaru last week. Since the car is white, it was amazing to see some of the visible contaminants coming off the white paint (It is nice to see the result visually)! For some stubborn spots, I had to rub the clay over and over a few times before getting them off. My point is: it is easier to do a good and through job claying a lighter color car since I can visually inspect my work. My second car is black. I have a feeling that I would be able to do as good a job without seeing the trouble spots. Comments?
 
Accumulator said:
Hugh2- Interesting about the Elmer's.



I can certainly understand how you might prefer the "feel" with water as opposed to with lube. As with the car suspension analogy, to each their own.



Heh heh, just because we can't *explain* the results of a test, that doesn't mean the test is flawed. One thing to consider, though- an automotive panel, especially one *in need of claying*, is different from a relatively clean CD in a number of respects. E.g., the contamination (which is gonna get moved across the surface to some degree no matter how often you knead/replace the clay) could be a *very* significant variable all by itself.
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Hi again,



You're absolutely correct; testing a CD is not indicative of how the products perform on a real car and also how the clay uptakes the debris and encapsulates it is the ultimate factor which will determine overall scratch performance of the clay .



The next phase of testing (assuming I don't bore too much of this foolishness) is to test the shearing abilities and the clay and it's ability to up-take or absorb debris to minimize scratching. I think first I'll set up some sort of relatively controlled experiment for the debris uptake and use CD's again to visually describe the effect. My last experiment will involve a vehicle panel and an application device which ensures each test area receives the same treatment (easy enough to fabricate), but I'll also require equipment I presently don't own to measure the results whether it be a glossmeter of some other surface profile measuring device. I haven't contacted them yet but I believe the National Research Council of Canada has the expertise and measurement systems I'm looking for.
 
Hugh2 said:
...The next phase of testing is to test the shearing abilities and the clay and it's ability to up-take or absorb debris to minimize scratching. I think first I'll set up some sort of relatively controlled experiment for the debris uptake and use CD's again to visually describe the effect. My last experiment will involve a vehicle panel and an application device which ensures each test area receives the same treatment (easy enough to fabricate), but I'll also require equipment I presently don't own ...
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Better watch it or we'll be after you to apply yourself to some other testing too ;)



But seriously, it's just great that you're doing this, let alone in such a well though-out manner :xyxthumbs Keep us apprised!



Mopiko- Welcome to Autopia! With the black car, you'll have to go more by feel and inspection of the clay. And I'd alter the focus a little bit- worry more about claying *gently enough that you don't mar the surface* than about getting every last bit of contamination off.
 
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