Choosing a new polisher. Flex 3401 or Dewalt 849x with dynabrade ?

SVR said:
Hi Barry



I've got two Dynabrade's. A 61385 (14mm version of the 84) and a 61375 which is RO mode only

Don't have a Flex at present but I'd hate to have to finish with a Flex. forced rotation just aint the right mode for finishing. can be done for jewelling but not the last step



I use both dynabrades on two separate makita 9227s with 240volt power. Using 125mm/5inch, 150mm/6 inch and up to 8 inch pads on both of them



The 125mm is fine if you have a reasonably thick pad on it but it can be a little unbalanced with thin pads

My favourite combo on the 84 is a 150mm rayon pad without and sometimes with a sanding interface pad. the rayon pads do not have any foam backing and are very flat and meant for glass.



so anything from 150mm/6 inch upwards is best.

yes the rotary with DB is noisy but worth it. Annihilate orange peel on some paints in no time with those.



My speeds are - forced rotation. 1 or 2 most of the time, 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 for certain situations





Random mode - speed 6 down to 5,4 and 3 to correct and for polishing - speed 4 1/2 down slowly to 3 over time
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Hey SVR, thank you for the input... it really helps.

I was searching for 7.5" pads but as I don't have a lot of practice it might not be the best option, it's good to know that like Barry you like 6" pads... there are much more options and cheaper at that size... "=]



Do you find the RO with DO noisier than a DA like PC or Griots ?

How do you like DB to finish on soft paints ?
 
SVR said:
...I'd hate to have to finish with a Flex. forced rotation just aint the right mode for finishing. can be done for jewelling but not the last step..
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Maybe we're using terms differently, but for me "jeweling"/burnishing *is* the last polishing step (assuming I bother to do it at all). It's that "ramp up an already perfect finish" step that's oh-so-gentle. No way can I get the proper result with the Flex 3401.
 
dacavalcante said:
Do you think in my case, using a M105 on a tangerine pad to do a quick correction than following with m205 on a crimson pad, be a better option than going straight to m205 and doing more passes per section ?
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I think that with experience you'll learn to be more efficient with your correction. Sounds like a *LOT* of trial-and-error going on all the time. I'd find a small representative area and correct it (from marred-up-start to ready-to-LSP-finish) and then apply that process to the whole vehicle.



I hit stuff pretty hard for the intitial/aggressive step, but that's just me and I know the history (and can guess the future) of the vehicles since they're mine.



I only use M105 on cutting pads, not something like the LC Tangerine (similar to the GG polishing pad that I like so much). And I only use M205 (which I'm liking less and less...way too many oils/etc.) on an already-corrected finish.



I myself would probably go with different products if doing a one-step, but I can't really say as I don't really do those. Eh, I'd probably two-step 'em with Uno followed by some AIO with some cut (3D Speed perhaps, or maybe ZAIO).



I dunno if you oughta worry about RIDS on the kind of jobs you're doing.



If I did understood it right, you're thinking I might be wanting both machines for the wrong reason ? "=]
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That could be! Although you could probably do good one-steps with either a DynaBrade or a Flex3401 if you used the right pad/product combos for each vehicle. Note that your customers are *not* Autopians ;)



BTW, my GG 6 ROP vibrated that much.... to me it's too much.... I tend to think the flex or a rotary (even with dynabrade), would be a lot gentler...
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OK, yeah...RO units like the GG/PC do vibrate quite a bit. The DyanBrade oughta be better *if you set it up right* and the Flex 3401 has a different "feedback" altogether (but you might not like it). Note that either one will require taping as it'd be pretty tough to hold either polisher with one hand while holding a "barrier" with another (and I'm speaking as a guy who takes *his* exercise/strength training pretty seriously too ;) ).
 
Accumulator said:
I think that with experience you'll learn to be more efficient with your correction. Sounds like a *LOT* of trial-and-error going on all the time. I'd find a small representative area and correct it (from marred-up-start to ready-to-LSP-finish) and then apply that process to the whole vehicle.

....

I myself would probably go with different products if doing a one-step, but I can't really say as I don't really do those. Eh, I'd probably two-step 'em with Uno followed by some AIO with some cut (3D Speed perhaps, or maybe ZAIO).
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I agree, I might look some good AIO to get, not sure which one...

I'm also thinking about some PO106FA..... if I have to guess, it must be killer on very soft paints, for a fast, clean top notch work... but it's just my guess...

I dunno if you oughta worry about RIDS on the kind of jobs you're doing.
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I'm slowly learning to be careless about it for simple jobs



Note that your customers are *not* Autopians ;)
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You couldn't have said better.... you know, on the last car I worked on, I messed up pretty bad on the LSP... it has been long since I had last used Collinite #885.... just WDGPS... DP MAX WAX.... I was already with the bad habit of working with so easy wipe off products..... so I over applied the Collinite #885.... man.... this wax won't forgive a mistake like that..... it was almost 2 hours to be able to take it off.... I had to use the machine, but from a couple of experiences on the past, I knew that wax just don't like the machine, maybe it's the heat generated....... I ended up this car late at night, but knowing what it could look like in the sun, I drove 15 miles just to check it out under the sunlight on the next morning and behold.... there was that huge amount of streaking.... the entire car......... that just took all the pride from me of the work I did.

The owner was like: "Wow man! The car is amazing!"... then he asks "How did you liked it ?"..... and I "Well, let's book it again as soon as possible so I can correct this mess".

Then I went and showed him all the streaking from the wax...... it's really sad.... because if a person can't see what we see, it's hard to brag how better our service can be than simple production work.

So after correction and IPA it was looking like this:

img2057wg.jpg


After almost 2 hours trying to take the wax off..... the mess:

img2070sh.jpg




How the guy can't see that and all the streaking ?! LoL... I think we're a different bread.... lucky I'll have the chance to fix that, no one can take pride of doing something like that.





OK, yeah...RO units like the GG/PC do vibrate quite a bit. The DyanBrade oughta be better *if you set it up right* and the Flex 3401 has a different "feedback" altogether (but you might not like it). Note that either one will require taping as it'd be pretty tough to hold either polisher with one hand while holding a "barrier" with another (and I'm speaking as a guy who takes *his* exercise/strength training pretty seriously too ;) ).
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I decided on the dewalt 849x, already ordered it and I will buy the dynabrade from our friend here on the topic.

You're right, I guess skipping tapping, wouldn't be a smart move...

Hey, don't forget to check out what is going on... Mr. Olympia!!!!

Bodybuilding.com - 2012 Olympia Weekend Webcast Replays
 
dacavalcante- Heh heh, I haven't followed the Olympia since forever, but I do watch The World's Strongest Man competion each year.



Funny that your Collinite didn't like the by-machine application. I use 476S (same stuff as 885 AFAIK) by machine all the time :nixweiss
 
Accumulator said:
dacavalcante- Heh heh, I haven't followed the Olympia since forever, but I do watch The World's Strongest Man competion each year.



Funny that your Collinite didn't like the by-machine application. I use 476S (same stuff as 885 AFAIK) by machine all the time :nixweiss
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There are some crazy guys there right now.



Ahummm.... I must be doing something wrong then.... what's your procedure to apply it ?

Pad type, size, machine speed, pressure, way to prime ? Both when spreading on and off. Da or Rotary ?
 
hi mate. DB to finish on soft paints - don't finish them with the DB that much, RO polisher mainly

but if the speed on the DB is low enough, it could do it well enough.



yes six inch pads are cool.

As for noise, our randoms are quiet whereas the DB at 3 to 4 in RO mode is noisier due to the makita rotary powering it. but you get used to it
 
SVR said:
hi mate. DB to finish on soft paints - don't finish them with the DB that much, RO polisher mainly

but if the speed on the DB is low enough, it could do it well enough.



yes six inch pads are cool.

As for noise, our randoms are quiet whereas the DB at 3 to 4 in RO mode is noisier due to the makita rotary powering it. but you get used to it
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but will it finish haze free at least?

On what speed would you finish on DB ? Free or locked mode?
 
dacavalcante said:
Ahummm.... I must be doing something wrong then.... what's your procedure to apply [Collinite paste wax via machine] ?

Pad type, size, machine speed, pressure, way to prime ? Both when spreading on and off. Da or Rotary ?
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Not via rotary, that's for sure! But then I haven't touched my rotaries in years.



I use both the Cyclo (fixed speed around ~3750 opm, 4" pads) or the GG 6" RO at speed 3-4 with either a f4" (if it's already set up for that and I don't want to bother changing it) or 6").



I prime the pad with wax and then scrape off as much as I can with a plastic razor blade so there's a uniformly distributed, but minimal amount, of wax on the pad. Virtually zero applied pressure.



I dunno...I just never seem to have problems waxing by machine :nixweiss Sealants, OTOH, eh...I pretty much always do those by hand as I just can't get a properly thin appication via machine.
 
Accumulator said:
Not via rotary, that's for sure! But then I haven't touched my rotaries in years.



I use both the Cyclo (fixed speed around ~3750 opm, 4" pads) or the GG 6" RO at speed 3-4 with either a f4" (if it's already set up for that and I don't want to bother changing it) or 6").



I prime the pad with wax and then scrape off as much as I can with a plastic razor blade so there's a uniformly distributed, but minimal amount, of wax on the pad. Virtually zero applied pressure.



I dunno...I just never seem to have problems waxing by machine :nixweiss Sealants, OTOH, eh...I pretty much always do those by hand as I just can't get a properly thin appication via machine.
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Got it!

I'll try doing a test spot again with #885 by da following your recommendations, maybe I have overused or applied unnecessary pressure.



BTW, the Dewalt is here... Dynabrade will take some more time but I hope to have it early next month



 
dacavalcante said:
but will it finish haze free at least?

On what speed would you finish on DB ? Free or locked mode?
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sure. I never get haze with any steps I do due to the pads Im using and the water based polish used. doesnt tear or dig into the paint like almost all other polishes/compounds do



no damage with every step - thats my motto and how I prefer to do it

I jewel with every step and slow down rpm/opm and take pressure away as I go too. fully cycling the product not stopping after 30 seconds or even 2 mins. when doing correction step - 3 to 4 mins, each step afterwards I increase cycling time up to five, seven, eight, ten or twelve minutes with the one dime of polish. Xpert is very wet and better lubricated without the heavy oils.



time is important but quality takes time
 
SVR said:
sure. I never get haze with any steps I do due to the pads Im using and the water based polish used. doesnt tear or dig into the paint like almost all other polishes/compounds do



no damage with every step - thats my motto and how I prefer to do it

I jewel with every step and slow down rpm/opm and take pressure away as I go too. fully cycling the product not stopping after 30 seconds or even 2 mins. when doing correction step - 3 to 4 mins, each step afterwards I increase cycling time up to five, seven, eight, ten or twelve minutes with the one dime of polish. Xpert is very wet and better lubricated without the heavy oils.



time is important but quality takes time
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I've saw a couple of videos from a guy on youtube whom uses this Xpert and Dynabrade, is that you ? "=]



BTW, it's nice that you're able to take your time.... I do my best to take the car to the best I know how to do right now and it already takes me 10-14 hours for single freaking step... I do have to work a lot on my technique.



From my 3rd or 4th car and on I've learned to finish haze free and it has been this way since then, but to my eyes, there's something left.... although I use Po85RD or m205 on a crimson or black pad most of the time, there's something not quite right.... I think I can deliver something glossier, without filling of course.... That's why I'm stepping to a 849x, to try to learn how to jewl with it and take my finishing to the next step.

These are some of my works so far, If you care to take a look at all: HEPolimento - YouTube
 
dacavalcante said:
From my 3rd or 4th car and on I've learned to finish haze free and it has been this way since then, but to my eyes, there's something left.... although I use Po85RD or m205 on a crimson or black pad most of the time, there's something not quite right.... I think I can deliver something glossier, without filling of course.... That's why I'm stepping to a 849x, to try to learn how to jewl with it ...
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I'd be doing that final step with the PO85RD instead of the M205.
 
Accumulator said:
I'd be doing that final step with the PO85RD instead of the M205.
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As strange as it may seems, I almost use m205 or po85rd as my only polish step... only once I used PO85rd as a 2nd polishing step.... but again, it was my mother's car and I spent 2 days on it....

I managed to get swirl free on the paints I work with the GG 6 ROP and PO85RD, even after wiping down to inspect.... although I haven't tried it yet with the g110v2...

But now, as I'm managing to get haze free with m205 and it will cut more than po85rd, that's what I'm using..... I really don't have time nor get paid to go with a 2nd step of polishing.... that's why I'm not finishing with PO85RD..... but if the dynabrade and the 849x do allows me to work much faster, and I manage to dial my technique I'll sure include a jeweling step with po85rd on the rotary...
 
yeah thats me mate. 10-14 hours for one step - hmm I thought I was slow doing a one step via RO in 4 hours



it's all in the prep mate. get back to the bare paint by doing decontamination washes and the prep towel to finish off cont removal



remember that the gloss is in the paint and each paint has different heat and abrasive resistance. some get hotter quicker than others



quality clears will give you more gloss than what a cheap clear will most often

example - lexus paint vs old hyundai or diahatsu paint



all polishes work but some get the gloss of the paint up better than others.



also PO85RD has sharply faced abrasives so will dig into the paint and leave marring on soft paints possibly. was using menzerna range in 2004 and had some issues with it not liking humidity and certain temps in the aussie climate



don't worry, you will pick it up and run with it. been here since 2002 mate. long time and lots of people teaching me alot which I still use to this day.



have fun mate



Best system I feel is forced rotation to correct, rotary to jewel and RO to finish.

rotary is best for jewelling as the shearing action glasses out the paint, adding depth, crystal clear reflections and colour richness. the RO adds more colour and depth on top of that



I'll check out your videos tomorrow.



happy polishing all
 
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