Charging a price.!

[fergnation]

I get the "second car" line all the time. Infact the guy next door gave it to me and I still havent seen his wifes car.



I quoted a consistent customer $100 bucks yesterday only because she called me in the middle of a blizzard to set up a time. I figured if this lady was thinking about detailing her car while six inches of snow was falling outside I would set her up.



IF you are slow and have nothing on the books, I would price match with a smile on my face. Worry about what that customer expects later, but for now put some money in your pocket. Plus, if I have my wife is in my ear about money, I will do just about anything to get out of the house and into the garage!!!!

 

[todd@bsaw]

One thing to keep in mind with all this price changing is it's easier to lower your prices than to raise them. If you normally charge $200 for a detail, a customer will feel appreciative if you give them a lower price for the work. On the other hand, if the same customer comes back with an extremely difficult job, you will find them hesitant to pay full price if not higher because of more work involved.



If you start out doing full details at $100, when you build a client base and find your work is worth more, it will be even more difficult to raise your normal price.

 

[BobD]

Did she just want the interior done? That $85 shop is doing an express job for sure. They'll have the car done in an hour tops. I'm different from a lot on these forums because I do a lot of express detailing. You honestly could of done the job as an express detail and made a quick $85. But I know a lot of detailers won't do an express style detail because they think it's a "hack" way to do thing. I think it's just business and giving the customer what they wanted.

 

[Envious Eric]

What special did you decide to run that worked out well for you?



Also, do you have cases where you don't clean the rims or the inner rims?

1 - I ran a special of $300 per day up to 10 hours, then $400 from 10-12 hours in one day - lets just say lots of people are jumping on it and i just received 2 more emails last night wanting it done! It was a special I threw out in December while I was a little slow...oops, but its regular business now!



2 - I have cases like that on occassion. Sometimes you can only clean so much without taking the wheels off. In that case, I dont really bother with the inners because they will look half assed. It looks "normal" with just the outers done, but looks "hacked" with it half cleaned. But I will always get the outers cleaned up

 

[Envious Eric]

I agree with you though. For a great majority of people, a "market priced" 1-step produces better results than most people can ever imagnie.

yep, I actually compounded a car the other day and the owner came out...

"wow, that looks good, almost done". :lol: I still had two more steps to go! needless to say, the owner was amazed!

 

[tssdetailing]

You could've said: "for $85, i would have to see it ahead of time, please bring it to me and if it's not in terrible condidtion, I'll see if we can work around that price." This gives her inscentive to bring it to you (hopefully) and typically once people are in a spending mood, then you can say "oh, no you have a dirty cup holder, i charge $15 for those alone, so it'll be $100" or whatever you have to to make the right $$$

 

[imported_Detailing Technology]

I get the "second car" line all the time. Infact the guy next door gave it to me and I still havent seen his wifes car.

A nice, almost non-arrogant while tone-setting, response to those people is, "Great, looking forward to that. But, I have full schedule of work for the next 90 days, so lets focus on this car for now and I'll see what I can do about getting you in sooner".





Then their innocently proposed and fictional "multi-car discount" flies right out the window.





When they pick up the car I'd ask, "Can I see the other car now, to see when I can fit it in?" Then take it from there... They might actually want the job, or they may be fishing for a discount, but you left the door open to take the work.

 

[zackslapshot20]

I just came across this! I mean come on honestly? Maybe I should call him to do my truck I live about 50 miles from him. This will kill us all.





professional detailing work offered

I would LOVE to see what kind of chemicals he uses. Turtle wax is my first guess. This guy is obviously a hack, "my areas of expertise are wet sanding and buff, shine restoration and exterior buff to remove light scratches and restore shine." he says buff twice in this quote from the ad and says shine restoration twice. He also mispelled multiple words in his advertisement. Anyone who picks this low balling hack to detail their car is #1. Stupid and #2. Cheap and will not pay for a good quality detail because they think they are getting an awesome deal. How in the h*** can you make money and a living on $5 per panel for wetsanding as well as $55-$65 for a full detail. You cannot without finding a way to get around it and make plenty of shortcuts.



Just my opinion on hacks like these that are drawing potential business away by putting prices at less than 25-50% of ours. This topic really irritates me because most people who do this are not insured or any of that. They are trying to skate by and it really gets annoying after a while. Stop taking business from us hardworking, non-shortcutter business men and women :grrr



And no, non-shortcutter is not a word nor phrase but it fit perfect

 

[imported_Detailing Technology]

Who can even comprehend his ad!



He isnt getting any business woth talking about. A headlight is more than a hood to polish? jizzerk-off...

 

[alloutdetailing]

Did she just want the interior done? That $85 shop is doing an express job for sure. They'll have the car done in an hour tops. I'm different from a lot on these forums because I do a lot of express detailing. You honestly could of done the job as an express detail and made a quick $85. But I know a lot of detailers won't do an express style detail because they think it's a "hack" way to do thing. I think it's just business and giving the customer what they wanted.

I feel you on the express job. I mean I might get to a customers house that wants a full detail and notice that it just needs a wash , vac,wax and quick interior wipe down!

 

[WAS]

I'm different from a lot on these forums because I do a lot of express detailing. You honestly could of done the job as an express detail and made a quick $85. But I know a lot of detailers won't do an express style detail because they think it's a "hack" way to do thing. I think it's just business and giving the customer what they wanted.

I'm with you to some extent. My most popular package focuses on the interior, and not the exterior. I don't include ANY paint correction, not even a hand wax, just a spray wax, no claying, nothing. Most people don't know, don't care, and aren't willing to pay a significant amount of money for their car's paint care. ESPECIALLY if the vehicle is 5+ years old.

 

[safetyman2010]

Well here is the thing. I do dealers at $85 for a full detail. On cars and SUV's but there a quick fast make em look good kinda thing. But when I go out and do y personals I charge what I feel my time is worth. Now I do need money but if I charge them $85 now I will be stuck with this price every time they need me. Or I can do it and swing em to do regular washes every 2 weeks or whatever. IDK

This is the main problem with the detail industry. There is NO WAY at that price that you can ever reasonably expect to make any money. We used to play these games with customers and dealers 10-12 years ago and trust me it isn't worth it. I will guarantee that you would make as much or probably more just going and getting a 9-5 job and not have the headaches of running your own business. One of the reasons you aren't getting paid is because you are projecting that you are worth more. For example, I know - without question that we are doing a better job than 95% of the guys in the business and I charge accordingly. We have a dealer that we do work for that sends work to 3 or 4 detailers and we get paid 60-100% more than the other guys they use. Why? No one would use us if we weren't worth the money and we are BY FAR the busiest shop in our city. This always has my competitors scratching their heads because they charge nothing and can't get any work but it makes perfect sense. People that want to get something for nothing are not your target market. They don't want to pay for your work so why would you want them? I know it's scary to turn away work when you are slow but honestly I would rather not do work that I am not going to make any money on and also establishes me as a guy that "works cheap". You gain NOTHING by working for slave wages for dealers and retail customers.

 

[David Fermani]

There is NO WAY at that price that you can ever reasonably expect to make any money. We used to play these games with customers and dealers 10-12 years ago and trust me it isn't worth it. I will guarantee that you would make as much or probably more just going and getting a 9-5 job and not have the headaches of running your own business. You gain NOTHING by working for slave wages for dealers and retail customers.

Sorry, but that's a pretty ignorant blanket statement & doesn't really give any credible encouragement to anyone wanting to enter this business through these channels. Just because you failed at your attempt, doesn't mean others will too. Besides myself, I know many shops that do very well in this market and make WAY more than 99.9% of the non-dealer oriented shops. Where there's dealers, there's $$. You just need to understand and have the ability to reel it in.

 

[imported_Jakerooni]

I have to agree with David on this one. If you can get the contracts to a few high volume dealerships there's really no reason at all you should'nt be bringing in $15,000 - $30,000/mth in gross sales at the $90-$150 per car range. Better have a good crew though. volume is where the money is at. Right now the guy I'm working with has a $20,000/mth contract with the local Toyota dealership. When I was up in Michigan the dealership there was a $50,000/mth in the prime months of summer. (of course payroll and supplies will eat up a substantial part of that but that's where you have to manage your business to keep as much profit as you can while still putting out a quality product) Don't dismiss the power of express details with dealerships.

 

[safetyman2010]

Sorry, but that's a pretty ignorant blanket statement & doesn't really give any credible encouragement to anyone wanting to enter this business through these channels. Just because you failed at your attempt, doesn't mean others will too. Besides myself, I know many shops that do very well in this market and make WAY more than 99.9% of the non-dealer oriented shops. Where there's dealers, there's $$. You just need to understand and have the ability to reel it in.

Nothing ignorant about what I said - it's common sense and standard business practice. I've never failed at anything in my business - what I said was that work is unprofitable and a loser at that price. Unless you are somehow able to escape the laws of minimum wages and fixed costs doing work at that price is a LOSER. Standard formula for calculating wage costs is money paid x 1.35 = actual cost to employ someone after paying for all employment costs and expenses. Here minimum wage is $10.25 x 1.35 = $13.84 per hour to employ someone at the CHEAPEST. That doesn't include the costs for heat/hydro/telephone/rent/office supplies/detailing supplies/advertising/accounting/insurance etc... PLUS a reasonable expectation of profit per job. I'm not going to argue with you about this if you don't want to do the math but doing full details at that cost (assuming they are being done correctly and are actual full details) is insanely idiotic and will result in what happens to 90% of detailing businesses - failure.



What most of the guys in this business fail to realize is if you own your business it should be more than just a paycheck otherwise it's exactly what most of us were trying to get away from by opening our own businesses - a job. If you aren't able to make more than you can make at a 9-5 job then why bother?

 

[David Fermani]

It's both ignorant and arrogant to think just because YOU couldn't run a profitable operation doing dealer details that others can't. Doing volume work IMHO shouldn't be done on an hourly scale in the 1st place. I feel there's a high likelyhood that it pisses money away, promotes laziness, product waste/theft and it doesn't build a productive, win-win environment for the both the technician as well as the operator.



My total expenses were ~55% & we've averaged $500K/yr for well over 10 years. I know many others that produce comparable #'s throughout different markets.



Okay, I'll take a stab at the basic minimum wage Great White North math too....

7 employees @ $13.84/hr X 50 hrs /week X 52 weeks = ~$250K in wages

**take that from +$500K in Sales and you finish the P & L equation....PROFITABLE

 

[safetyman2010]

It's both ignorant and arrogant to think just because YOU couldn't run a profitable operation doing dealer details that others can't. Doing volume work IMHO shouldn't be done on an hourly scale in the 1st place. I feel there's a high likelyhood that it pisses money away, promotes laziness, product waste/theft and it doesn't build a productive, win-win environment for the both the technician as well as the operator.



My total expenses were ~55% & we've averaged $500K/yr for well over 10 years. I know many others that produce comparable #'s throughout different markets.



Okay, I'll take a stab at the basic minimum wage Great White North math too....

7 employees @ $13.84/hr X 50 hrs /week X 52 weeks = ~$250K in wages

**take that from +$500K in Sales and you finish the P & L equation....PROFITABLE

I don't know where you keep getting this "I can't be profitable doing dealer details" BS. I do work for more dealers than any other operation in my city of 450000 people and do quite well doing it because I get paid for what I do. I have ZERO interest in doing cheap, crappy details day in and day out when I can be doing full priced retail customers cars that are happy to pay well and yield decent profits. Can you make money grinding out high volume clean ups for dealers? Sure. Does that have anything to do with the threadstarters operation at present? Not one bit. I'm not sure what your point is aside from beating your chest and mouthing off about how your way is ultra-profitable and thus the only way to do things. In any event if it works for you great but it's completely inapplicable to 95% of the operators in the detailing business. Also, your math is completely off on the labour expenses.

 

[Envious Eric]

I think the difference is david is talking about higher volume, lower price in his volume shop, where Shine is talking about higher price, lower volume in his volume shop...its like do you want 10000 cars at 50 bucks or 1000 cars at 500

pineapples and oranges make a great drink - pineapple orange juice!!!

 

[David Fermani]

I don't know where you keep getting this "I can't be profitable doing dealer details" BS.

From you here:

There is NO WAY at that price that you can ever reasonably expect to make any money. You gain NOTHING by working for slave wages for dealers and retail customers.

______________________

Can you make money grinding out high volume clean ups for dealers? Sure. Does that have anything to do with the threadstarters operation at present? Not one bit.

It has everything to do with what the OP stated here:

Well here is the thing. I do dealers at $85 for a full detail.

Most dealer full detail charges(including mine) range from $70 -95. That’s right within the OP’s price point that you say you can’t make money at.



_________________________

I'm not sure what your point is aside from beating your chest and mouthing off about how your way is ultra-profitable and thus the only way to do things. In any event if it works for you great but it's completely inapplicable to 95% of the operators in the detailing business..

That’s probably because….

This is the main problem with the detail industry.

_________________________

Also, your math is completely off on the labour expenses

It probably is. I’m referencing your minimum wage figures.

 

[imported_Detailing Technology]

David,



At a 45% operations expense, you are way ahead of the curve. Most people just don't operate that neat. Operations is definitely your specialty. (and dont take that offensively, to keep that percentage on a dollar is rare)





In my other life, we barely hit a 5% profit annually.



But our definition of profit was when there is no other possible legal way to give another business revenue dollar away.



We couldn't depreciate another nickle

We couldn't pay ourselves another dollar

We couldn't pay our employees another bonus dollar

We couldn't buy any new equipment or more real estate

We maxed out on charitable donations, gifts, travel, meals...



and so on...



What is left after that, we called profit. The remaining few dollars in the company checkbook got split with New York State and the Fed and we moved into a new quarter or calendar year.



Our goal every year was to be at $0 or a loss.