SilverLexus
Super Enthusiast
That makes perfect sense David. Thanks for the explanation.
Carnauba on its Final Leg??!!!
- Thread starter imported_dpeezy415
- Start date
That makes perfect sense David. Thanks for the explanation.
imported_memnuts
New member
I had used carnuaba based waxes for over 35 years. After I discovered the world of sealants and the importances of PREP, I have never looked back.
Carnuaba products are like my 3 classic 60's muscle cars, fun to play with every so often but not as a daily protectant or cars in my humble opinion. Waxing will become a thing of the past like changing points and condensors, simply cranking on the distributor for more advance, adjusting carbs, cranking windows and drum brakes.
Carnuaba products are like my 3 classic 60's muscle cars, fun to play with every so often but not as a daily protectant or cars in my humble opinion. Waxing will become a thing of the past like changing points and condensors, simply cranking on the distributor for more advance, adjusting carbs, cranking windows and drum brakes.
In the middle of the article now, and will say this, every product has its place and time of use. I will continue to use carnubas on my suburban, because IMO it gives it a look most other products i've used can't create. I will also continue to experiment w/ them on my own car.
This right here sums it all up for me, I don't care if I reapply once a month:
"For show cars and extreme detailers, a Carnauba show car wax on traditional black and red finishes will continue to be the winning ticket until someone figures out how to build the same jetting (wet finish look) qualities into a synthetic wax."
I've also yet to find a synthetic (short of NXT) that makes metallics shine like carnubas do. I use a wide variety of both however, as I said, it all depends on the individual situation of the car.
If it's a car that's outside, gets driven every day, gets hit w/ weather, I will be using a sealant. If it's a car that comes out on weekends, I'll most likely be using a carnuba.
I've got 3 fresh cans of #16 sitting on the counter that I picked up when I found out it was being scratched. It's an amazing carnuba that I will put toe to toe w/ most synthetics.
This right here sums it all up for me, I don't care if I reapply once a month:
"For show cars and extreme detailers, a Carnauba show car wax on traditional black and red finishes will continue to be the winning ticket until someone figures out how to build the same jetting (wet finish look) qualities into a synthetic wax."
I've also yet to find a synthetic (short of NXT) that makes metallics shine like carnubas do. I use a wide variety of both however, as I said, it all depends on the individual situation of the car.
If it's a car that's outside, gets driven every day, gets hit w/ weather, I will be using a sealant. If it's a car that comes out on weekends, I'll most likely be using a carnuba.
I've got 3 fresh cans of #16 sitting on the counter that I picked up when I found out it was being scratched. It's an amazing carnuba that I will put toe to toe w/ most synthetics.
wannafbody
wannafbody
i have to say that a polymer sealant should offer more protection than a carnauba which seems to allow dirt to pentrate into it- the reason i believe so many put AIO under a carnauba is that they don't have FAITH in a carnaubas ability to protect the paint
I laugh every time I hear someone try to make a point of carnauba being outdated.
One only has to look at results from the leading carnauba waxes out there in the market today to realize that there isn't a substitute product that can reach the heights in terms of a sharp paint finish resolution quite like a fine carnauba wax product.
IMO I don't feel that carnauba gives up a lot in terms of basic protection as well.
There are certain things that will never be replaced, like fine wine, fresh flowers, sunshine, fresh fruit, and a can of a finely processed carnauba wax!
One only has to look at results from the leading carnauba waxes out there in the market today to realize that there isn't a substitute product that can reach the heights in terms of a sharp paint finish resolution quite like a fine carnauba wax product.
IMO I don't feel that carnauba gives up a lot in terms of basic protection as well.
There are certain things that will never be replaced, like fine wine, fresh flowers, sunshine, fresh fruit, and a can of a finely processed carnauba wax!
HotRodGuy said:
You might be shocked to learn just how little "Carnauba wax" there really is in a products like #16. If there is a thimble full of Carnauba in a tin of #16 I'd be shocked.
Do people really believe it's possible to use "33% by volume Carnauba... bla, bla, bla..." in a paste wax? By volume of what, is what I want to know?
Bill D
Hooked For Life
I use traditional wax strictly for the "added beauty" which understandably is subjective. I can easily see a totally synthetic product coming along that completely mimics this look (that I prefer)a lot sooner than later. It will be at that point I'll consider carnauba wax usage officially "dead".
imported_memnuts
New member
Is it not true that the carnuaba content of a traditional wax is there for its protective value not the luster, depth or shine? It is the accompanying ingredients that make a carnuaba wax shine and the created appearance of depth and "jetting" is the combination of all the ingredients. Please correct me if I am wrong but I have applied (hand melted) raw carnuaba chunk on fresh paint and the shine was not very bright. Mostly muted but water beaded like crazy. :xyxthumbs
togwt
The Old Grey Whistle Test
Quote: Is it not true that the carnauba content of a traditional wax is there for its protective value not the luster, depth or shine? It is the accompanying ingredients that make a carnauba wax shine and the created appearance of depth and "jetting" is the combination of all the ingredients. Please correct me if I am wrong but I have applied (hand melted) raw carnauba chunk on fresh paint and the shine was not very bright. Mostly muted but water beaded like crazy. blkZ28Conv
Iâ€â„¢ll agree on its protective value, as itâ€â„¢s the worldâ€â„¢s purest, hardest and most transparent natural wax repellent derived from the Brazilian palm Copernia Cerefera. This wax coats the leaves and is hydrophobic; it forms a barrier that is a natural protection from the suns UV radiation, acid rain, airborne pollutants and acidic bird excrement. Iâ€â„¢ll also agree to its lack of a â€Ëœbrightâ€â„¢ shine (it gets this by being blended with polymers)
Polymer and Carnauba wax differences:
Polymer sealant- comprises an open linked molecule; these open linked polymer molecules join together to create an elongated mesh like effect that reflects light efficiently due to their inherent flat surface. Because they are usually very transparent they transmit the surface colour faithfully, but they have very little depth resulting in what is perceived as a very bright, flat silver glow
Carnauba wax- molecules are closed linked, which means that they only butt up together to protect the surface. These wax molecules form an egg-grate type (with the long axis vertical) mesh over the smaller paint molecules of the paint film surface, which gives it an optical depth. Brazilian Carnauba wax is usually blended with natural oils (to provide gloss) and modern polymers (to provide shine)
Colour, Depth and Clarity- the three factors concourse judges look for when scrutinizing paint film surfaces. Of the three, optical clarity is of primary importance, being able to see the paint filmâ€â„¢s true colour by having a really clean surface, clarity will enable depth of shine etc to be seen, and Carnauba wax dries to a deep, natural shine; in contrast, bees wax, paraffin and many synthetic waxes tend to occlude (cloud).
IMO used alone neither a polymer nor a Carnauba can accomplish â€Ëœcolour, depth and clarityâ€â„¢ yet combining them will.
Will a formulation be found that can accomplish this from a single product, I do not doubt it, until then Iâ€â„¢ll use my beloved Carnauba wax and caress my cars paint as â€Ëœneeded therapyâ€â„¢ (or at least thatâ€â„¢s my excuse, whatâ€â„¢s yours?)
JonM
Iâ€â„¢ll agree on its protective value, as itâ€â„¢s the worldâ€â„¢s purest, hardest and most transparent natural wax repellent derived from the Brazilian palm Copernia Cerefera. This wax coats the leaves and is hydrophobic; it forms a barrier that is a natural protection from the suns UV radiation, acid rain, airborne pollutants and acidic bird excrement. Iâ€â„¢ll also agree to its lack of a â€Ëœbrightâ€â„¢ shine (it gets this by being blended with polymers)
Polymer and Carnauba wax differences:
Polymer sealant- comprises an open linked molecule; these open linked polymer molecules join together to create an elongated mesh like effect that reflects light efficiently due to their inherent flat surface. Because they are usually very transparent they transmit the surface colour faithfully, but they have very little depth resulting in what is perceived as a very bright, flat silver glow
Carnauba wax- molecules are closed linked, which means that they only butt up together to protect the surface. These wax molecules form an egg-grate type (with the long axis vertical) mesh over the smaller paint molecules of the paint film surface, which gives it an optical depth. Brazilian Carnauba wax is usually blended with natural oils (to provide gloss) and modern polymers (to provide shine)
Colour, Depth and Clarity- the three factors concourse judges look for when scrutinizing paint film surfaces. Of the three, optical clarity is of primary importance, being able to see the paint filmâ€â„¢s true colour by having a really clean surface, clarity will enable depth of shine etc to be seen, and Carnauba wax dries to a deep, natural shine; in contrast, bees wax, paraffin and many synthetic waxes tend to occlude (cloud).
IMO used alone neither a polymer nor a Carnauba can accomplish â€Ëœcolour, depth and clarityâ€â„¢ yet combining them will.
Will a formulation be found that can accomplish this from a single product, I do not doubt it, until then Iâ€â„¢ll use my beloved Carnauba wax and caress my cars paint as â€Ëœneeded therapyâ€â„¢ (or at least thatâ€â„¢s my excuse, whatâ€â„¢s yours?)
JonM
Intercooled
New member
I have always used one or the other. I am going to test for myself this spring. I am going to apply a carnauba over a polymer and "see for myself" if its all worth it.
topnotchtouch
New member
As long as you can walk into a store and pick up a bottle of carnauba based wax for less than $5 it will be around for a good long time. I don't see that happening with Sealants any time soon.
How often do you go into Autozone or WalMart and see a couple of guys standing there debating like this over carnauba vs sealant?
This thread really should be "Carnauba on its Final Leg with detailing enthusiasts??!!!"
How often do you go into Autozone or WalMart and see a couple of guys standing there debating like this over carnauba vs sealant?
This thread really should be "Carnauba on its Final Leg with detailing enthusiasts??!!!"
imported_Aurora40
New member
DavidB said:
Well, if most products have no more than a thimble-full of carnauba, then what is it you are saying is dead? :nixweiss
In your article you mention how carnauba is not clear, thus it can't make your finish clear, etc. But I've never used a synthetic that was clear in the bottle, either. And plenty of synthetics will leave residue in cracks if you got it in there as thickly as people get carnauba waxes in cracks. This is mainly due to liquid vs paste, not carnauba vs sealant, at least in my opinion.
I thought it was a good article, though, and I appreciate that you take the time to write them up. But I for one find myself using carnaubas more and more, not less and less. :wavey
imported_dpeezy415
New member
You bring up a valid point about paste vs liquid Aurora40. I was intrigued by this article because I happen to prefer the application process of a paste over a liquid.
DavidB mentions that the chemists he spoke with said the synthetic substitute in pastes will make them BETTER than carnauba, resulting in a more durable, shinier product.
So I'm thinking polymer sealant in a tin which would be great!!!
:bounce
I wonder if they'll be better at repelling dust as well?!?!
DavidB mentions that the chemists he spoke with said the synthetic substitute in pastes will make them BETTER than carnauba, resulting in a more durable, shinier product.
So I'm thinking polymer sealant in a tin which would be great!!!
:bounce
I wonder if they'll be better at repelling dust as well?!?!
Accumulator
Well-known member
Bill D said:
I'll readily admit that it's subjective/emotional, but I just *like* using certain carnaubas. Even the *smell* can matter to me at times (olfactory invocation of memory, etc.). I even like the process of popping open a can of #16 or unscrewing the lid of a jar of Souveran.
So even if they come up with a sealant that protects better, looks the same, feels/applies the same, etc., there will still be reasons why somebody might want to open a tin/jar of paste wax and have at it.
In a few generations it'll be different, huh? No more people who grew up with certain old-school products...
wannafbody
wannafbody
IMO all these products we normally use are probably a lot more similar in chemistry than they are different- a few % different ingredients here or there-as good as some carnaubas like #16 and 845 (50 years or so old) modern synthetics really are better
imported_memnuts
New member
Originally posted by DavidB
I have always described Carnauba show car waxes as having a "warm" look. I believe it is the distortion that creates this effect.
Unfortunately, since my prepping skill and detailing patience has greatly increased since joining Autopia, I find this distortion upsetting after prepping the finish to its "fresh from the paint booth" brilliance.
Neither appearance is bad, just as mentioned before our expectation and what appears good is a personal preference.
Just as the leading sealants have approached and in some cases reached the goal of carnuaba containing compounds in appearance, the distinct between the two will become hazy and endurance of that just waxed/sealed appearance will be the deciding factor.
Until there is "The Perfect Prep" in a can product, carnuabas will always have a place in detailing.:xyxthumbs
I have always described Carnauba show car waxes as having a "warm" look. I believe it is the distortion that creates this effect.
Unfortunately, since my prepping skill and detailing patience has greatly increased since joining Autopia, I find this distortion upsetting after prepping the finish to its "fresh from the paint booth" brilliance.
Neither appearance is bad, just as mentioned before our expectation and what appears good is a personal preference.
Just as the leading sealants have approached and in some cases reached the goal of carnuaba containing compounds in appearance, the distinct between the two will become hazy and endurance of that just waxed/sealed appearance will be the deciding factor.
Until there is "The Perfect Prep" in a can product, carnuabas will always have a place in detailing.:xyxthumbs